800 Granville Street | 137.5m | 42, 38 fl | Proposed

[goodcitywhenfinished]

I wonder if the rooftop space will be available for any restaurant tenants or only office? Vancouver could use a few more rooftop bars, and this would be the place to do it.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by goodcitywhenfinished

I wonder if the rooftop space will be available for any restaurant tenants or only office? Vancouver could use a few more rooftop bars, and this would be the place to do it.

Oh that'd definitely drive some more public interest and support to this. I'm disappointed that with all the fancy buildings getting approved and built there has been little retail or commercial component attached for the public to enjoy at least a sliver of it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by goodcitywhenfinished

I wonder if the rooftop space will be available for any restaurant tenants or only office? Vancouver could use a few more rooftop bars, and this would be the place to do it.

The rooftop spaces terrace down on six different levels, and are labelled 'Outdoor Office Terrace'.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Major renovations possible for Orpheum Theatre, including potential synergies with adjacent redevelopment

A feasibility study will be undertaken on possible upgrades to the Orpheum Theatre in downtown Vancouver’s Granville Entertainment District.

The potential scope of the upgrades could make it the single largest renovation project the historic theatre has seen in decades — ever since the City of Vancouver saved the 1927-built theatre by acquiring it in the 1970s.

The forthcoming feasibility study will perform additional planning work on the future renovation project, which currently includes components such as: the replacement of major building systems like HVAC and lighting; accessibility improvements with level changes, elevators, ramps, new seating, and washroom upgrades; seismic upgrades and the restoration and reinforcement of historic walls; acoustic improvements for a more optimal spectator experience; and functional improvements for the back of house and front of house.

Other upgrades include an overhaul of the 1983-built Smithe Street facade “as part of [an] integrated design approach to overall accessibility, audience experience, and sustainability.”

Interestingly, this feasibility study also includes work to “obtain construction and project cost estimates for the existing site and potential synergies related to a recent rezoning enquiry for the adjacent properties.” This appears to be a reference to Bonnis Properties’ 800 Granville Street rezoning application, which is an office, retail, restaurant, and entertainment space redevelopment that proposes offering major shared improvements with the Orpheum Theatre...

Signs of a green light?

[Feathered Friend]

Plans to revitalize Granville Street hit a setback today, as the Urban Design Panel recommended the resubmission of a proposal to add over 600,000 sq.ft. of office, retail, & cultural space atop the Commodore Ballroom.

https://twitter.com/City_Duo/status/1676809508453244928?s=20

Seven recommendations probably means there will be significant revisions in the design.

[Metro-One]

All I know is I expect everything I like about the project to be removed / watered down.

The large wrap around animated screen, I give a 10% chance of that seeing the light of day in any form greater than a single screen not much greater than a large home television.

The retention of the bowling alley? Maybe a 20% chance of happening given so many revisions needed.

Maybe to play ball the city should just say, you know what, don’t worry about the view cones.

[Migrant_Coconut]

ABC said they'd cut red tape hindering development... and this is red tape hindering development. Sounds like a good time to put their money where their mouths are.

[csbvan]

Council doesn't have to accept UDP recommendations. It's an advisory body only. They generally do because Council lacks expertise in architecture and urban design.

The project certainly has design issues and I cannot imagine there's an appetite for the amount of office space being proposed any time in the next 5 or so years.

That being said the application kickstarted the planning program for Granville, which is moving forward. It's not like UDP rejection of a single proposal (likely not one that would move forward anyways, given its proponents and market conditions) will stop the efforts of revitalization.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

All I know is I expect everything I like about the project to be removed / watered down.

The large wrap around animated screen, I give a 10% chance of that seeing the light of day in any form greater than a single screen not much greater than a large home television.

The retention of the bowling alley? Maybe a 20% chance of happening given so many revisions needed.

Maybe to play ball the city should just say, you know what, don’t worry about the view cones.

"Watering down or "dumbing down" designs is a Vancouver specialty it seems. I hate to say it, but you'd better get used to it. Oh well, half a loaf is better than none.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by csbvan

The project certainly has design issues and I cannot imagine there's an appetite for the amount of office space being proposed any time in the next 5 or so years.

I'll be interested to see how office vacancies evolve over the next few years. It will take a bit for everything to shake out given longer-term leases.

But I would think new AAA office space in the downtown core would still stand a good chance of being leased if constructed. Don't increased vacancies usually hit the lowest-quality properties in the less desirable locations harder?

Also, if construction started today when would the building be move-in ready? 2028? 2030? That is a long timeline and while vacancies could still creep higher, with Canada's projected population growth and the worst of inflation (hopefully) behind us I wouldn't bet on it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I'll be interested to see how office vacancies evolve over the next few years. It will take a bit for everything to shake out given longer-term leases.

But I would think new AAA office space in the downtown core would still stand a good chance of being leased if constructed. Don't increased vacancies usually hit the lowest-quality properties in the less desirable locations harder?

Also, if construction started today when would the building be move-in ready? 2028? 2030? That is a long timeline and while vacancies could still creep higher, with Canada's projected population growth and the worst of inflation (hopefully) behind us I wouldn't bet on it.

In a market where tenants are downsizing and new tenancies are few and far between, it's unlikely any developers are going to build anything substantial on spec. (The Reliance project on Pender might confirm that). Even though there's virtually no parking with this project, the engineering involved in spanning the Commodore Ballroom will be expensive. The costs are likely to be $300m. I haven't seen the Bonnis family bank account, but I'll bet it doesn't have enough cash to build much. And nobody is going to loan that sort of money to a small spec developer. And even if they do, as interest rates keep rising, so do commercial loan costs.

Nobody in their right mind is going to commit to anything here for years, unless there's a dramatic up-tick in the economy and Working From Home disappears, or reduces substantially. Fortunately, unlike the Bonnis Robson St site, all the existing buildings are intact so Granville can continue, and as the Rec Room and the 900 block project complete, potentially see more activity, without this needing to proceed any time soon.

[TwoFace]

Granville street and one block East and West of it are being re-evaluated by the City, this will take years of consultations before any approvals, be it on Granville itself or the Seymour 800 block Hotel sites that are proposed also.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Granville street and one block East and West of it are being re-evaluated by the City, this will take years of consultations before any approvals, be it on Granville itself or the Seymour 800 block Hotel sites that are proposed also.

What happened to "everything is possible?"

[TwoFace]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

What happened to "everything is possible?"

... first, years of consultation to make it all possible

[officedweller]

I'm not keen on the length of the facade on Granville (seems overbearing),
and the video wall makes the preserved heritage facades look like thin veneers.
I think that could do better at the ground plane.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

ABC said they'd cut red tape hindering development... and this is red tape hindering development. Sounds like a good time to put their money where their mouths are.

The thing that this isn't any development, but one that involves heritage buildings and their conservation. The review process is necessary.

Interesting thing is that the row of heritage buildings at this block is already one of the more vibrant stretches Granville Street those further south are sorely lacking. More intense redevelopments should go further south, especially where there are so many depressing slums and rundown structures. Why destroy the nicest-looking block?

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'm not keen on the length of the facade on Granville (seems overbearing),
and the video wall makes the preserved heritage facades look like thin veneers.
I think that could do better at the ground plane.

I am with you on this.

[phesto]

Originally Posted by Changing City

In a market where tenants are downsizing and new tenancies are few and far between, it's unlikely any developers are going to build anything substantial on spec. (The Reliance project on Pender might confirm that). Even though there's virtually no parking with this project, the engineering involved in spanning the Commodore Ballroom will be expensive. The costs are likely to be $300m. I haven't seen the Bonnis family bank account, but I'll bet it doesn't have enough cash to build much. And nobody is going to loan that sort of money to a small spec developer. And even if they do, as interest rates keep rising, so do commercial loan costs.

Nobody in their right mind is going to commit to anything here for years, unless there's a dramatic up-tick in the economy and Working From Home disappears, or reduces substantially. Fortunately, unlike the Bonnis Robson St site, all the existing buildings are intact so Granville can continue, and as the Rec Room and the 900 block project complete, potentially see more activity, without this needing to proceed any time soon.

You're bang on. This project is not happening anytime soon.

They should really chop up the gargantuan floorplates and see if they can make a go of it as a hotel project.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

The thing that this isn't any development, but one that involves heritage buildings and their conservation. The review process is necessary.

Interesting thing is that the row of heritage buildings at this block is already one of the more vibrant stretches Granville Street those further south are sorely lacking. More intense redevelopments should go further south, especially where there are so many depressing slums and rundown structures. Why destroy the nicest-looking block?.

And the heritage is being conserved (including the Commodore and bowling alley), so no problem.

Granville's vibrant part is north of Robson; a defunct Payless, an Irish pub and a soon-to-close Chapters aren't adding much to the streetscape. As it is, there's already a Cineplex rec centre under construction across the street, the Bay building and "Leckie Block" are getting extensions, Perkins and Will want a teardown of the east side of Nelson and Smithe, Drake's receiving a lowrise on the corner, and there's four towers planned at the former bridge loops, so no one part of Granville Mall is being singled out.

This is one of the big, flashy, ambitious world-class city projects that you've wanted the CoV to have for the last ten years... and you're against it? Congrats on outing yourself.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by phesto

They should really chop up the gargantuan floorplates and see if they can make a go of it as a hotel project.

I think a hotel would do better on the current Winners/Best Buy site for tour bus access from the lane (and the new driveway through VCII removes the tight corner at the Vancouver Block).

The lane behind the Commodore/Orpheum is pretty uninviting (despite the alley-oop redo a few years back).

But I do agree that the floorplates need to be reduced.

[officedweller]

It just occurred to me, that a significant perk that this project could deliver might be a southern entrance to the Vancouver City Centre Canada Line station.