Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

In French that Jupiter moon is indeed called Yo, exactly like in "yo, dude".

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Is that normal?

Yes it is. People hesitate between "le Wi-Fi" and "la Wi-Fi" however. I tend to say "la Wi-Fi".

We also pronounce Internet as "ɛ̃tɛʁnɛt" (word starts with a nasal vowel that does not exist in English), and not "ˈɪntɚnɛt" as English speakers do.

[Acajack]

I hear both "wee fee" and "weye feye" from francophones quite regularly here.

[lio45]

"ouifi" is very French-From-France though. Here most people will say "ouaille-faille" (the Anglo way).

Tech support is very often outsourced to Tunisia or Algeria or Morocco though, they'll usually say "ouifi" over there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

"ouifi" is very French-From-France though. Here most people will say "ouaille-faille" (the Anglo way).

Tech support is very often outsourced to Tunisia or Algeria or Morocco though, they'll usually say "ouifi" over there.

"le réseau"

"ton/votre Internet"

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I hear both "wee fee" and "weye feye" from francophones quite regularly here.

Not surprising. "weye feye" sounds typically like how French Canadians would try to mimick Anglo pronunciation. It's always odd for Europeans (especially the way you guys insist on pronouncing the English retroflex "r" in English words/names, which sounds extremely foreign and contrived in Europe).

The only very odd exception that I've never fathomed is how the French Canadians insist on pronouncing "Boston" with a French pronunciation (nasal õ at the end of the name), whereas here the Francophone Europeans choose to pronounce it like the English (with o and n at the end). It's a rare case where the Europeans behave like the French Canadians and the French Canadians behave like the Europeans.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I know astronomers at UdeM who insist that the volcanic Galilean moon of Jupiter is called Ee-Oh, not Eye-Oh - very strange..........

Io, like many other moons, was named by a German dude named Samuel Marius a couple hundred years ago. Since in German an "I" like this sounds more like the French "I" or "ee" sound (though a bit softer), why would you think that the English-based "eye-oh" pronunciation is automatically the correct one?

It's like the dummies who always bitch at our francophone media and publications for spelling names like Poutine with French phonology, as opposed to Putin which is the English phonology.

One is not any more correct than the other, and if we really want to spell his name properly, it would look like this: Путин

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Here most people will say "ouaille-faille" (the Anglo way).

"la ouaille-faille" ? Quite a mouthful.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's like the dummies who always bitch at our francophone media and publications for spelling names like Poutine with French phonology, as opposed to Putin which is the English phonology.

Beijing ou Pékin ?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Not surprising. "weye feye" sounds typically like how French Canadians would try to mimick Anglo pronunciation. It's always odd for Europeans (especially the way you guys insist on pronouncing the English retroflex "r" in English words/names, which sounds extremely foreign and contrived in Europe).

The only very odd exception that I've never fathomed is how the French Canadians insist on pronouncing "Boston" with a French pronunciation (nasal õ at the end of the name), whereas here the Francophone Europeans choose to pronounce it like the English (with o and n at the end). It's a rare case where the Europeans behave like the French Canadians and the French Canadians behave like the Europeans.

We've been neighbours and rivals of Boston for around 400 years, so maybe that explains it.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

In French that Jupiter moon is indeed called Yo, exactly like in "yo, dude".

I've always seen it spelled Io. It's indeed pronounced "yo". It was a goddess before being a moon.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Beijing ou Pékin ?

I always say Pékin as does our media, our government and most people I know. Beijing is not completely unheard of among francophones here, but it's very much a minority usage.

In my experience anglophones never say Peking anymore.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We've been neighbours and rivals of Boston for around 400 years, so maybe that explains it.

So were we, since we, well, were the same people at that time.

I don't see why the French, who have talked about Boston for as long as you guys, would pronounce it less "Frenchly" than you guys. It's just one of these oddities.

It's also inconsistent on your part, as you don't pronounce Washington the way you pronounce Boston, right?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I always say Pékin as does our media, our government and most people I know. Beijing is not completely unheard of among francophones here, but it's very much a minority usage.

I notice more and more pressure to say "Beijing" here, under English influence. One thing that also annoys me tremendously is how the French (elites, journalists, economists, etc) feel like the proper names of Chinese companies are English names!! So you always see the names of Chinese companies written in English, which is RIDICULOUS. As if English was the language of China.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So were we, since we, well, were the same people at that time.

I don't see why the French, who have talked about Boston for as long as you guys, would pronounce it less "Frenchly" than you guys. It's just one of these oddities.

It's also inconsistent on your part, as you don't pronounce Washington the way you pronounce Boston, right?

There is no logical explanation, just as there is no logical explanation for why Edmonton always gets an English-style pronunciation from francophones, whereas Vancouver gets a French one.

Very anglophone cities like Saint John, New Brunswick (Saint-Jean-Nouveau-Brunswick) or St. John's, Newfoundland (Saint-Jean-Terre-Neuve or Saint-Jean-de-Terre-Neuve) get translated whereas other city names that could be translated, aren't.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I notice more and more pressure to say "Beijing" here, under English influence. One thing that also annoys me tremendously is how the French (elites, journalists, economists, etc) feel like the proper names of Chinese companies are English names!! So you always see the names of Chinese companies written in English, which is RIDICULOUS. As if English was the language of China.

I also have my doubts that the English-adapted pronunciation of Beijing is actually accurate relative to how it's actually said in the original Mandarin!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is no logical explanation, just as there is no logical explanation for why Edmonton always gets an English-style pronunciation from francophones, whereas Vancouver gets a French one.

Edmonton also gets an English-style pronunciation in Europe. Not that people talk about Edmonton that often over here or could even place it on a map.

As for Vancouver, always with a French pronunciation of course.

• Video Link

PS: The irony that it's the French who actually wrote the most beautiful song about Vancouver.

You guys also wrote a beautiful song that mentions Vancouver. I'm not sure the Anglophones have done as much for that city.

• Video Link

That song always makes me emotional for some reason, reminding me of dead relatives from my childhood.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Edmonton also gets an English-style pronunciation in Europe. Not that people talk about Edmonton that often over here or could even place it on a map.

As for Vancouver, always with a French pronunciation of course.

• Video Link

PS: The irony that it's the French who actually wrote the most beautiful song about Vancouver.

You guys also wrote a beautiful song that mentions Vancouver. I'm not sure the Anglophones have done as much for that city.
.

Canadian cities are extremely rarely mentioned in songs in English, even by Canadians. There are probably more songs in French than in English that mention Toronto, not always nicely!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I also have my doubts that the English-adapted pronunciation of Beijing is actually accurate relative to how it's actually said in the original Mandarin!

Indeed. I happen to be one of those rare Europeans who learned and can speak Chinese, so yes, it always makes me laugh when people insist on saying "Guangzhou" instead of "Canton", or "Beijing" instead of "Pékin", or "Nanjing" instead of "Nankin", because what they pronounce is far from the actual Chinese pronunciation (especially for Guangzhou). It always hurts my ears, as we say here. I'd much rather they stick to the French names, if they can't pronounce the Chinese names properly. Last week I was watching an otherwise very good French documentary about the history of China from the First Opium War until today, and they made a point of saying "Nanjing" instead of the perfectly valid "Nankin" in French, but the guy reading the text of the documentary just pronounced all the Chinese names awfully, which made it worse for me to watch, because I'm used to the "real" Chinese names with their proper pronunciation.

Anyway, with French spelling Beijing should be pronounced something like "Peille-djing" (the "b" in Chinese pinyin spelling does not indicate an English/French b, but it indicates a non aspirated p, as in French "puits", and is contrasted with "p" which in Chinese pinyin spelling indicates an aspirated "p", as in English "pit"), but even that doesn't catch the tones of course, which make words sound very different in Chinese (bei in the 3rd tone means "North", but bei in the 4th tone means "the back", "le dos", whereas bei in the 1st tone means "grief, sadness", etc.).

Guangzhou should be pronounced "Kwang-joe" (joe as in G.I.Joe). Unaspirated "zh" in Chinese pinyin is English "j" (as in "John") and contrasts with aspirated "ch" (English "ch" as in "choke").

Better stick to Pékin and Canton really, which are beautiful and ancient names too.

PS: G in Chinese pinyin spelling is not English/French "g", but it is simply the non-aspirated "k" (as in French "carte"), and contrasts with "k" which is aspirated "k" (as in English "card"). The Francophones do not have aspirated consonants, but the Anglophones do, like the Chinese.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Edmonton also gets an English-style pronunciation in Europe. Not that people talk about Edmonton that often over here or could even place it on a map.

As for Vancouver, always with a French pronunciation of course.

• Video Link

PS: The irony that it's the French who actually wrote the most beautiful song about Vancouver.

You guys also wrote a beautiful song that mentions Vancouver. I'm not sure the Anglophones have done as much for that city.

• Video Link

That song always makes me emotional for some reason, reminding me of dead relatives from my childhood.

The music is by Diane Tell, but the lyrics are actually written by legendary French singer Françoise Hardy, whom I assume you know for these songs at least:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPkBMqehr5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1cuQF8sEGA

(Your friend and compatriote Mousquet doesn't like it when I post old French songs, and I sometimes get the impression he pretends not to know them!)