Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Both "block" and "Europe" are French words. So your text is wrong in the first place.

It is nearly impossible to speak English without using words of French origin.

The Franks borrowed the word "block" from the Dutch. The closest Anglo-Frisian word is "blok", used mostly by the Frisians. The English tended to use the Bolk (OE bolca, the timber used as a gangway) or Balk (OE Balca, the timber used to hold up a house)

As for Europe, I like replacing it with "The Quildlands" - The Land Where the Sun is Quelled.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Definitely. I had an Italian-Montrealer ex from that area. "St Leo" in text form.

Some names seemed so rarely used among Anglos that the form hadn't settled. "Hoh-sheh-la-ga" or "Osh-la-ga", didn't seem to matter. You never went there! (I actually lived there 2001-3).

De La Veh-Rahn-Dree-Ay.

Noder-Dame, of course. Mountain. But not Saint-Anthony for Saint-Antoine. Venn-dome.

Interesting. In Ottawa, I am pretty sure most stuff named "Notre-Dame" (the main Catholic basilica-cathedral for the entire city, a cemetery, a street) is called "notruh dawm" even by most non-francophones.

I believe there is a Notre Dame anglophone high school in the west end though, which is probably called "noder daym".

[kool maudit]

I actually think, now that you mention it, that the most common (for the street) was not the US-style "Noder-Dayme", but the hybrid "Noder-Dahm". Not "Notruh", though.

[MolsonExport]

It depends on upbringing and your immediate social environment. Big difference between the unilingual angryphones of the past, vs. those brought up in hugely Anglo districts but having French immersion, vs. those in environments where French and English rub shoulders daily, vs. franco-dominant milieus.

Growing up, we always said "Notruh Daaam" (Church, street) but NDG, as in ENN-DEE-GEE (neighborhood), never "Notruh Daaam de Grasse". But we would also say "Mawn-Tree-All". St. Leonard was "Sain Lio-narrd" (or Saint Lio-narrd"), so we would usually drop the T, use the accent aigu, but also express the D. Chateauguay could be Chaat-teh-GEE or Chahh-tohh-gay.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It depends on upbringing and your immediate social environment. Big difference between the unilingual angryphones of the past, vs. those brought up in hugely Anglo districts but having French immersion, vs. those in environments where French and English rub shoulders daily, vs. franco-dominant milieus.

Growing up, we always said "Notruh Daaam" (Church, street) but NDG, as in ENN-DEE-GEE (neighborhood), never "Notruh Daaam de Grasse". But we would also say "Mawn-Tree-All". St. Leonard was "Sain Lio-narrd" (or Saint Lio-narrd"), so we would usually drop the T, use the accent aigu, but also express the D. Chateauguay could be Chaat-teh-GEE or Chahh-tohh-gay.

Even lots of francophones say ENN-DEE-GEE: "Mon ami habite à ENN-DEE-GEE".

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Noder-Dame, of course. Mountain. But not Saint-Anthony for Saint-Antoine. Venn-dome.

Mountain St for Rue de la Montagne, I even think St. James for St-Jacques, right?

I recall one anecdote from my dad back when he was a teen working summers at my grandpa’s garage, he knew the city well, liked to help, this one Anglo/American tourist was looking for Pyasnyne Boulevard, my dad was stumped, eventually they figured it out together (boulevard Pie-IX …)

Notre-Dame could easily be Our Lady Street, no? The concept exists in English.

Amusing how sometimes it’s translated, sometimes not. Sherbrooke’s main artery is Rue King (Est/Ouest), it’s never translated, ever; Sorel and Quebec both have a Rue du Roi each.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Mountain St for Rue de la Montagne, I even think St. James for St-Jacques, right?

I recall one anecdote from my dad back when he was a teen working summers at my grandpa’s garage, he knew the city well, liked to help, this one Anglo/American tourist was looking for Pyasnyne Boulevard, my dad was stumped, eventually they figured it out together (boulevard Pie-IX …)

Notre-Dame could easily be Our Lady Street, no? The concept exists in English.

Amusing how sometimes it’s translated, sometimes not. Sherbrooke’s main artery is Rue King (Est/Ouest), it’s never translated, ever; Sorel and Quebec both have a Rue du Roi each.

Gatineau has a Rue Main and a Rue Principale. In different parts of town. Ironically, Principale is in the more anglo part of town, Aylmer, which is Gatineau's Lennoxville.

Main is in a very francophone part of the city but is the old main street for a small company town formerly called Gatineau Mills that was built by New Englanders. There are street names like "Broadway" in that part of Gatineau.

"Main" is still pronounced the English way by everyone, though it could easily be pronounced in French as the French word for hand is "main".

Gatineau also has a street in the central Hull district called Rue Lois, which was named for New Englander Lois Wright, the daughter-in-law of Philemon Wright who founded Hull. I am sure that Lois pronounced her name "lowiss" but here everyone pronounces it "lwah".

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

As for Europe, I like replacing it with "The Quildlands" - The Land Where the Sun is Quelled.

People don't talk about this enough. In North America, you say you're going to move to Seattle or Vancouver, and everyone will mention the rain and clouds. But for Berlin or Copenhagen, it's all clubs and bike lanes.

People shouldn't overlook it: a lot of Europe is GLOOMY!

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by lio45

Mountain St for Rue de la Montagne, I even think St. James for St-Jacques, right?

I recall one anecdote from my dad back when he was a teen working summers at my grandpa’s garage, he knew the city well, liked to help, this one Anglo/American tourist was looking for Pyasnyne Boulevard, my dad was stumped, eventually they figured it out together (boulevard Pie-IX …)

Notre-Dame could easily be Our Lady Street, no? The concept exists in English.

Amusing how sometimes it’s translated, sometimes not. Sherbrooke’s main artery is Rue King (Est/Ouest), it’s never translated, ever; Sorel and Quebec both have a Rue du Roi each.

I never heard anyone under 80 say St. James, though. Maybe Kristian Gravenor.

I've definitely heard of the Pie-IX confusions, as well as Lionel-Groulx (that x is very archaic even in French!)

Also heard of Angrignon transcribed as "Angry Onion"

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I never heard anyone under 80 say St. James, though. Maybe Kristian Gravenor.

I've definitely heard of the Pie-IX confusions, as well as Lionel-Groulx (that x is very archaic even in French!)

Also heard of Angrignon transcribed as "Angry Onion"

Ville Ay-marde for Ville Émard.

[lio45]

One easy example of inconsistent translations in the traffic reports: “Remembrance Highway” and “Île-aux-Tourtes Bridge”, in the same sentence!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

People don't talk about this enough. In North America, you say you're going to move to Seattle or Vancouver, and everyone will mention the rain and clouds. But for Berlin or Copenhagen, it's all clubs and bike lanes.

People shouldn't overlook it: a lot of Europe is GLOOMY!

Postmaster driving to his new job after getting transferred from southern France to northern France:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_H4aB5vtmE

[kool maudit]

Despite "Gene Mantz", I have never heard anything other than a roughly orthodox pronunciation of "Jean-Talon".

Never heard an Anglo bother with Petite-Bourgogne (it's Burgundy).

I think there used to be more of an effort to get "Faubourg des Récollets" going, but the redevelopment efforts went with Griffintown.

Bon-a-VEN-chur, of course. Nun's Island.

[Acajack]

Franco-Ontariens jokingly refer to Cornwall as (Le) Mur de blé d'Inde.

It's too late in the day and I am too tired to explain it.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's too late in the day and I am too tired to explain it.

I might have said Gene Mantz once or twice but I think I can pierce the veil

[MolsonExport]

(some) anglos are (more) resistant to streets that have been renamed from English to French names. Rue de la Montagne was apparently named after some person with the surname Mountain, but who really knows?
Guy....believe it or not, that was an English fellow, but almost everyone invariably uses the French pronunciation. It was called St. James before St. Jacques (and the latter is not equivalent to the former), but only very old anglos call it by its former name. Same for Boul. Rene Levesque (formerly, Dorchester), or Boul. de Maisonneuve (formerly Burnside). University Street has been renamed Robert Bourassa. (I still go with the former, because, dammit, McGill!!). Saint Antoine Street used to be called Craig Street. Richmond Street is now Rue de la Sucrerie. Amherst street is now Atateken (indigenous word)...no great loss.

So many (significant) English streets have been renamed.

Maybe St. Leonard should be named Leonard Cohen?

[ToxiK]

Rock et Belles Oreilles addressed the pronunciation issue 30 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-dIsGwR0r0

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Franco-Ontariens jokingly refer to Cornwall as (Le) Mur de blé d'Inde.

It's too late in the day and I am too tired to explain it.

You don't need to explain. It's self evident.

Sackville NB has a nickname here in Moncton.Sometimes we call it Bagtown. C'est la meme chose n'est pas..........

[begratto]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Guy....believe it or not, that was an English fellow, but almost everyone invariably uses the French pronunciation.

Actually, it was named after Étienne Guy, a former MNA

Répertoire toponymique: rue Guy

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by begratto

Actually, it was named after Étienne Guy, a former MNA

Répertoire toponymique: rue Guy

Excellent. The street won’t soon be renamed, then.