Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Enemy4thePeople]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

To be fair the whole Wasatch front has been an exhaust patch lately. My family was visiting a few weeks back and they wondered at why anyone would want to live in such a polluted place while they complained of their eyes burning and discomfort being in so much pollution.

This is very true, though it mostly hits me when I leave town and come back. So to prevent this, I no longer leave town.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

To be fair the whole Wasatch front has been an exhaust patch lately. My family was visiting a few weeks back and they wondered at why anyone would want to live in such a polluted place while they complained of their eyes burning and discomfort being in so much pollution.

It's all cleared out this morning. Though, that inversion period was one of the worst I've seen, and one of the longest periods of no snow/ precipitation. We need new snow and a lot of it fast. I remember the inversion being so bad, back in '93 that you could not see out of it unless you went up to the ski resorts, where it was bright and sunny. Last year was awesome with all the snow and rain, but this last month has been bone dry and yucky.

[airhero]

I don't want to say it's all in peoples heads but I remember far worse air quality years than this one. Years where you couldn't see the mountains solely because of particulate pollution. I live on the west side in a townhome with a view of the Wasatch and they have been visible every day. It has stayed fairly warm which has kept the inversion more in check than normal. If the exhausting number of Reddit posts about the inversion are anything to go by, I think many people tend to confuse fog with particulate pollution.

That's not to say it was a good December for pollution. According to the EPA, in terms of worst measured daily PM2.5 concentration at stations across the city, this December saw the fewest green air days since 2017. But, since 1999, it was one of only 4 Decembers to not see an orange or red air day (though New Years Day was an orange day), and it is tied for the 12th most green air days (out of 25). So there is probably some recency bias going on here.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by airhero

I don't want to say it's all in peoples heads but I remember far worse air quality years than this one. Years where you couldn't see the mountains solely because of particulate pollution. I live on the west side in a townhome with a view of the Wasatch and they have been visible every day. It has stayed fairly warm which has kept the inversion more in check than normal. If the exhausting number of Reddit posts about the inversion are anything to go by, I think many people tend to confuse fog with particulate pollution.

That's not to say it was a good December for pollution. According to the EPA, in terms of worst measured daily PM2.5 concentration at stations across the city, this December saw the fewest green air days since 2017. But, since 1999, it was one of only 4 Decembers to not see an orange or red air day (though New Years Day was an orange day), and it is tied for the 12th most green air days (out of 25). So there is probably some recency bias going on here.

That summer just a couple years ago when there were all the fires along the west coast. At the time I lived less than a mile from the mountains in Logan and I went most of the summer not able to see them from my house. We had more bad air days than good air days that year. Closest I have ever come to leaving Utah for good.

These last few weeks haven't been great, I ended up spending new years out in the Nevada desert because I wanted to start 2024 with functional lungs.

Of course as cleaner cars and increased transit become more common the air will improve, however the best short-term solutions involve making industrial polluters install costly emissions controls on their facilities. US Magnesium, Oil Refineries, and Kennecott are all significant contributors to our bad air. They should have to factor the social cost of emissions into their operations.

Geneva Steel shut down when I was too young to understand what was going on, though I understand that Utah County saw it's largest air quality improvement in modern history upon it's shutdown. The rest of Utah (and the west in general) will see a significant reduction in summer haze once Utah's 4 largest coal plants shut down/switch to cleaner fuel.

[Boz]

*yawn*

Nothing new. Another winter with inversion. Been like this since I moved here in the 80s.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Enemy4thePeople

This is very true, though it mostly hits me when I leave town and come back. So to prevent this, I no longer leave town.

Haha same. I notice the smog the most when I leave town and come back too. To Orlando’s point the recent stretch was exceptionally bad. Looking forward to snow that’s in the forecast to clean things up and make salt lake look like a paradise once again

[TheGeographer]

I feel bad for people like Boz or AirHero who have lived here long enough to have the perspective that this recent inversion stretch wasn’t too bad for SLC standards. Paniolo man, I agree with your solutions. Hopefully they can be implemented at some point to help curb some of the pollution. Maybe we can also throw all the people who roll coal and drive inefficient polluting vehicles in jail while we’re at it

Also, we for sure saw several orange and some red days. I monitor air quality with a large population sample size from purple air monitors, and we saw a handful of orange and red air quality days. Don’t trust the EPA standards. Here’s the purple air source

https://map.purpleair.com/1/i/mAQI/a10/p604800/cC0#6.16/41.042/-111.593

[bob rulz]

I'm only in my 30s and overall the air quality in the valley has definitely improved over my lifetime.

This last month was bad though, no doubt about it.

[RC14]

I was driving into Salt Lake County from Ogden via Legacy on Sunday and it looked like I was driving into one of those Post apocalyptic movies where the air is so polluted that people can't breath it anymore.
I'm sure it's been worse in the past but this last period has been bad. Snow will be welcome.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

Maybe we can also throw all the people who roll coal and drive inefficient polluting vehicles in jail while we’re at it

We should be doing that anyway.

[Boz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

We should be doing that anyway.

Silly little clown.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

I feel bad for people like Boz or AirHero who have lived here long enough to have the perspective that this recent inversion stretch wasn’t too bad for SLC standards. Paniolo man, I agree with your solutions. Hopefully they can be implemented at some point to help curb some of the pollution. Maybe we can also throw all the people who roll coal and drive inefficient polluting vehicles in jail while we’re at it

Also, we for sure saw several orange and some red days. I monitor air quality with a large population sample size from purple air monitors, and we saw a handful of orange and red air quality days. Don’t trust the EPA standards. Here’s the purple air source

https://map.purpleair.com/1/i/mAQI/a10/p604800/cC0#6.16/41.042/-111.593

I would definitely reference the EPA's measurements over purpleair. I think purpleair sensors are great for consumer use and provide some useful widespread info, due to the numbers deployed. I would like one myself. But I believe they pale in accuracy and quality compared to regulatory-grade sensors used by the EPA. I saw stark quality differences between commercial and military/regulatory-grade equipment in my old line of work that make me skeptical of the accuracy of purpleair sensors, which, from what I've read, typically generate higher readings than regulatory-grade sensors.

In any case, the EPA has daily data over the last 25 to 45 years, depending on the pollutant, which makes easy apples-to-apples comparisons possible.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Boz

Silly little clown.

Agreed.

These people are silly little clowns.



And certainly have SDE.

[Boz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Agreed.

These people are silly little clowns.

You're weird.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Boz

You're weird.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by airhero

I would definitely reference the EPA's measurements over purpleair. I think purpleair sensors are great for consumer use and provide some useful widespread info, due to the numbers deployed. I would like one myself. But I believe they pale in accuracy and quality compared to regulatory-grade sensors used by the EPA. I saw stark quality differences between commercial and military/regulatory-grade equipment in my old line of work that make me skeptical of the accuracy of purpleair sensors, which, from what I've read, typically generate higher readings than regulatory-grade sensors.

In any case, the EPA has daily data over the last 25 to 45 years, depending on the pollutant, which makes easy apples-to-apples comparisons possible.

Good to know the purple air sensors are off some. Thanks for pointing that out. The EPA according to a source I saw only has 24 sensors spread throughout Utah. Do you know if that’s true? Seems like to low a number of sensors to get a good sample population from. What I like about purple air is despite being off some, there are a lot of sensors. So one can spatially see how pollution varies spatially better. For example, west side vs east side valley pollution differences. Quantity (purple air) vs quality (EPA) I suppose. One could calibrate the purple air sensors that are close to the EPA sensors and adjust accordingly. Anyways there were for sure some orange air quality days in December. I’m surprised the EPA sensors didn’t say otherwise. My lungs and eyes sure did

[airhero]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

Good to know the purple air sensors are off some. Thanks for pointing that out. The EPA according to a source I saw only has 24 sensors spread throughout Utah. Do you know if that’s true? Seems like to low a number of sensors to get a good sample population from. What I like about purple air is despite being off some, there are a lot of sensors. So one can spatially see how pollution varies spatially better. For example, west side vs east side valley pollution differences. Quantity (purple air) vs quality (EPA) I suppose. One could calibrate the purple air sensors that are close to the EPA sensors and adjust accordingly. Anyways there were for sure some orange air quality days in December. I’m surprised the EPA sensors didn’t say otherwise. My lungs and eyes sure did

No you’re right. I was trying to make year-by-year comparisons and I think EPA data is probably the best way to do that since there is more history (all purpleair data is less than a decade old), but I think there are only 8 stations in salt lake county so it’s not unfathomable that it was worse in places than the worst measured. And like I said I also think purpleair sensors are useful, for the reasons you stated. I believe they definitely paint a more comprehensive picture of air quality, but personally I wouldn’t take the quantitative outputs as accurate.

[Paniolo Man]

Lusso:



Large hole between 300 and 400 West on 700 South:



UP Depot Hotel (eyesore):



Temple Square:

[mstar]

Thank you, Paniolo Man! That Lusso project has not made much if any progress in a long time. Makes you wonder if the developer is having financial trouble.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by mstar

Thank you, Paniolo Man! That Lusso project has not made much if any progress in a long time. Makes you wonder if the developer is having financial trouble.

I agree. And to think that the Lusso wants to double its size?

Great job Paniolo Man!