Metro Phoenix Aviation Thread

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by combusean

I don't fly that much anymore but having flown out of SMF, PDX, SJC, OAK, SFO, BOS, and MDW, PHX is one of my consistent favorites.

I suppose this is all dependent on terminal and airline as well. People love SFO, for example, but only haven taken Southwest from it, I hate that airport. Food and drink always is at the top of my list and SFO has one semi-decent, overcrowded restaurant in Southwest's terminal and PHX is never short of those options but I suppose it was much worse in T2 or maybe T3.

Me either. I can’t fly to Las Vegas anymore, but it’s too expensive flying to Vegas. I rode on the FlixBus. It’s much cheaper than flying. I only to go to Florida or somewhere else. I still have find a cheap flight to Florida or whatever where I can go. I’m getting too old for this.

[N830MH]

Hawaiian will introduce the 787-9 on PHX-HNL from May 15th.

https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/1736151044638327116?s=61&t=BJeTUOJ_6ROjyeTsuYJwTw

OMG! What a nice surprise!

[BA744PHX]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Hawaiian will introduce the 787-9 on PHX-HNL from May 15th.

https://twitter.com/ishriona/status/1736151044638327116?s=61&t=BJeTUOJ_6ROjyeTsuYJwTw

OMG! What a nice surprise!

This was very unexpected but welcomed decision. Lets see how long it sticks.

In addition, JSX is moving to Scottsdale (SCF) from PHX starting January 10th to Burbank, Las Vegas and Denver Rocky-Mountain

What I find interesting is the Valley will now have 3 airports with airline service.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a...arbor-to-scottsdale-airport/71913026007/

[xymox]

Originally Posted by BA744PHX

This was very unexpected but welcomed decision. Lets see how long it sticks.

In addition, JSX is moving to Scottsdale (SCF) from PHX starting January 10th to Burbank, Las Vegas and Denver Rocky-Mountain

What I find interesting is the Valley will now have 3 airports with airline service.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a...arbor-to-scottsdale-airport/71913026007/

Wonder how long before people start complaining. SCF isn’t supposed to have commercial air traffic - yet that’s what this is. Don’t get me wrong I love JSX and love that I can fly out of SCF now. Just wondering for how long before the NIMBYs around here realize what’s going on and ruin it for the rest of us.

[combusean]

The scheduled passenger service that's prohibited in Section 2-14 of KSDL's rules and regulations is under FAR Part 121, JSX operates under Part 135.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by combusean

The scheduled passenger service that's prohibited in Section 2-14 of KSDL's rules and regulations is under FAR Part 121, JSX operates under Part 135.

Yeah, I understand the differences/technicalities in how they operate (JSX technically being a charter flight). It doesn't mean people won't complain about this once it becomes widespread news. With city council being pro-NIMBY I could easily see them amending the rules & regulations to somehow limit this so that JSX winds up leaving. Orange County forced them out. Same could happen here.

Right now JSX just serves three locations out of the PHX area - it would be great if they could expand that now. But with more flights it draws more attention. I just don't have much faith the city would continue to allow them to expand their operations.

[Obadno]

I was always a little surprised it didnt fly out of Scottsdale to begin with.

[combusean]

Scottsdale isn't going to force JSX out or change their rules. I'm 90% sure that specific Part 121 and other rules are there are as a result of Phoenix residents on the west side of Scottsdale Rd that have to deal with the bulk of aircraft noise who sued and lobbied accordingly.

It would be an uphill battle to expand rules to kick out a compliant operation, and, given that would probably be considered a "taking" under Arizona law, somebody would have to fork over the money to get JSX to leave.

And I don't know how they'd write the rules to exclude JSX compared to other Part 135 operators anyways.

My take on JSX is that they serve too small a niche and it would be difficult for neighbors to specifically pinpoint JSX as a nuisance compared to the many, many other compliant flight movements at the airport. The tickets are expensive and out of reach of casual travelers and the people willing to fund a lawsuit like a wealthy bored Phoenix neighbor would be interested in the service anyways.

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by combusean

Scottsdale isn't going to force JSX out or change their rules. I'm 90% sure that specific Part 121 and other rules are there are as a result of Phoenix residents on the west side of Scottsdale Rd that have to deal with the bulk of aircraft noise who sued and lobbied accordingly.

It would be an uphill battle to expand rules to kick out a compliant operation, and, given that would probably be considered a "taking" under Arizona law, somebody would have to fork over the money to get JSX to leave.

And I don't know how they'd write the rules to exclude JSX compared to other Part 135 operators anyways.

My take on JSX is that they serve too small a niche and it would be difficult for neighbors to specifically pinpoint JSX as a nuisance compared to the many, many other compliant flight movements at the airport. The tickets are expensive and out of reach of casual travelers and the people willing to fund a lawsuit like a wealthy bored Phoenix neighbor would be interested in the service anyways.

Yeah, discriminating against JSX as compared to other Part 135 operators would probably violate the airport's Grant Assurances with the FAA.

[PHX31]

How the hell do you guys know all about this shit?

[ASU Diablo]

whatever happened to the planned hotel at one of the terminals?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/a...harbor-airport-new-for-2024/71008521007/

Terminal 3 will get a new 6-gate concourse

Work is also scheduled to begin in 2024 on a new six-gate concourse in Terminal 3, a project that will also include a pedestrian bridge connecting Terminals 3 and 4. Makovsky expects the concourse will be finished in early 2027.

By that time, depending on how airlines are growing at Sky Harbor, he said the airport may need to add remote gates that are not part of the terminal infrastructure. Los Angeles and Dallas-Fort Worth are among the U.S. airports that use remote gates.

Planning may begin for a new Phoenix airport terminal (Terminal 5?)

Anticipating greater demand for flights out of Sky Harbor reinforces the need for infrastructure investments, Makovsky said. That's why he's weighing whether to expedite the timetable for a new terminal on the west side of the airport.

When airport staff discussed the likelihood of a new terminal in 2019 as part of its master plan for the airport, they didn’t anticipate growing fast enough to consider building a new terminal before 2029 or 2030, Makovsky said. But that could change based on recent growth at Sky Harbor.

“What we're challenging our airline partners to think about is, where do they see their operation in eight to 10 years? Because it's going to take us seven or eight years to build something like that if we need to,” Makovsky said. “So we don't know what that looks like yet, but we need to have that conversation with our airlines to make sure we're ready to be able to accommodate their growth and the growth of our community.”

Will Phoenix get more international flights in 2024?

As demand grows for international travel, a major priority for Sky Harbor is attracting transatlantic and transpacific routes.

Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego traveled to Asia last summer in part to advocate for nonstop flights to and from Asia, stopping in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan.

While Makovsky couldn't say when new long-haul international routes from Phoenix might arrive, he said conversations with airlines' staff indicated "a real strong interest" for a new European route. Sky Harbor currently has three airlines serving two long-haul destinations: American Airlines and British Airways' service to London and Condor Airlines' seasonal service to Frankfurt, Germany.

A second city in Germany, a city in France and Amsterdam were floated as possible routes, he said.

"This is not based on us putting a pin on the map and saying we'd love to have a route there," Makovsky said. "This is based on research and data that shows where our community is traveling to and who is coming to our community from these other locations."

New air service doesn't happen overnight, he said. It involves collaboration with airport staff, Phoenix economic development staff and destination marketing organizations like Visit Phoenix and the Arizona Office of Tourism to build a case for why an airline should establish a new route.

Sky Harbor has no Asian routes but its competitors do. Las Vegas has a flight to Seoul, San Diego has a flight to Tokyo and Los Angeles lists 10 nonstop routes to Asia. Alexandria Van Haren, Sky Harbor's air service development manager, recently told The Republic that establishing nonstop Asian service in Phoenix is a "top priority."

[exit2lef]

^There has been talk on-and-off about building a new west terminal for decades. I guess it's back on now.

[MiEncanto]

Seems like expanding Terminal 3 would be more efficient than another terminal. The south portion could be extended west and there is room on the north for another section. it seems like adding 20 gates to 3 would be cheaper and faster delivery than another terminal.

[Obadno]

The "west" Terminal is always "the plan" 20 years out depending on need.

https://www.skyharbor.com/about-phx/comprehensive-asset-management-plan/

The 20 year plan was done in 2019 so its very much still the plan and there was an update in 2022

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/k4ehgw3l/phx-camp-documentation_2019-09-13.pdf

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/w45nnrab/camp-update-executive-summary-final.pdf

The next major thing is fixing the west end traffic flow and once thats done and the T3 and T4 buildouts are complete (4 is done, 3 has one more concourse) they'll work on the next terminal.

They already have a built in stop location for the sky train so its coming, but no real plans will surrface for it for at least another 10 years. Unless somehow we start growing at 10% population gains a year like the 1980;s then maybe theyll speed up that timeline.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Seems like expanding Terminal 3 would be more efficient than another terminal. The south portion could be extended west and there is room on the north for another section. it seems like adding 20 gates to 3 would be cheaper and faster delivery than another terminal.

No actually, they will constructed new T3 north concourse 2, not West terminal. They still have plenty more room for another airlines. I do think Southwest Airlines will moved to West terminal. American Airlines will takeover all T4 gates, and especially for codeshare partners, as well. Some international airlines will be relocated to west terminal.

Originally Posted by exit2lef

^There has been talk on-and-off about building a new west terminal for decades. I guess it's back on now.

Yes, they did! They were talking about new West Terminal for more than two decades now. Hopefully they will start construction within 7 or 8 years from now.

[AP11]

NEW @airfrance will fly 3 nonstops/week (T, Th, Sat) from @PHXSkyHarbor to Paris starting May 24, @MayorGallego announces.

[ASU Diablo]

Don’t have much details but other than Air France announcing nonstop service to Paris from Sky Harbor. I expect media outlets to pick this up soon

Edit:

https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/bo...t-from-phoenix-to-paris-beginning-in-may

[phxguy90]

Looks like it will be using a 787-9. Awesome news, if successful maybe this will open the door for Lufthansa as a year-round flight since Condor is only seasonal.

[TllrSkyline-01]

Originally Posted by AP11

NEW @airfrance will fly 3 nonstops/week (T, Th, Sat) from @PHXSkyHarbor to Paris starting May 24, @MayorGallego announces.

It's time to get moving fast on that international terminal they have been 'thinking' about...it will take years to plan and build!

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Don’t have much details but other than Air France announcing nonstop service to Paris from Sky Harbor. I expect media outlets to pick this up soon

Edit:

https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/bo...t-from-phoenix-to-paris-beginning-in-may

OMG! No doubt you saw the news yesterday! I just heard the news about this. I am so excited for this!

Congratulations to Sky Harbor and Air France. Best of luck!