Hamilton City Centre | ? | 3x30 & 24 fl | Proposal

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Very few people live in downtown Hamilton. yes, quite a lot live in Durand. But those are mostly lower income rentals. In the next 10-15 years the downtown is going to radically change with all the condos being built and the people they will bring.

I agree - but I hesitate to state that they will STAY. We may have a high turnover rate as the old culture of poverty clashes with the newer richer culture. Trust me, I WANT it to work, but our global culture is changing too, and many of the businesses that once would line the core no longer can exist due to how we have evolved as a culture.

All the department stores that used to line it can no longer exist. With all the parking lots being used up it now makes it very much a "live downtown and shop downtown" place - which, isn't the end of the world, I really don't have much of an issue with that, but we need more places that actually CATER to those peoples needs now.

Fun fact - in the ancient past before they widened the roads people used to park diagonally in front of each of those businesses lining the gore - and there were awnings to protect people from the elements, thus we have sorta removed the "shop-ability" of the downtown over the ages.

I feel many people are just like yeah put enough people downtown and things will get better, well let's have a talk as we have in other threads and on the toronto forums. Let's pretend we now have enough people in the core. What comes next? What businesses should SPECIFICALLY be in the buildings on each side of gore park that you, if you lived in one of these condos, would require in order to have a functioning day life after working downtown (ideally) and then as a nightlife to entertain yourself?

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

what people dont realize is that this problem of "people shooting up in alleyways" & "shitting in laneways" and begging for money is in every city .... the difference is that other cities have tons of other people walking, shopping and living in these areas and create a huge distraction - almost making the undesirables become invisible.
Toronto is FAR worse than Hamilton when it comes to homeless, drug addicts roaming the streets... you just dont see them in the crowds as much.

and yes we have more people downtown Hamilton now than we have in a while and things have changed drastically, however, Covid created and new problem - we now have tent cities popping up everywhere and the cops seem to just turn a blind eye to it for some reason, i cant even believe that our parks have become tent cities for homeless and drug addicted people !!!
people literally blocking sidewalks and bike lanes in their sleeping bags surrounded by piles of — and garbage and yet the police will drive right by or walk right over them .

we pay obscene amoumts in taxes in this province (and country) to "fix" these problems and yet its only getting worse !

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

what people dont realize is that this problem of "people shooting up in alleyways" & "shitting in laneways" and begging for money is in every city .... the difference is that other cities have tons of other people walking, shopping and living in these areas and create a huge distraction - almost making the undesirables become invisible.
Toronto is FAR worse than Hamilton when it comes to homeless, drug addicts roaming the streets... you just dont see them in the crowds as much.

and yes we have more people downtown Hamilton now than we have in a while and things have changed drastically, however, Covid created and new problem - we now have tent cities popping up everywhere and the cops seem to just turn a blind eye to it for some reason, i cant even believe that our parks have become tent cities for homeless and drug addicted people !!!
people literally blocking sidewalks and bike lanes in their sleeping bags surrounded by piles of — and garbage and yet the police will drive right by or walk right over them .

we pay obscene amoumts in taxes in this province (and country) to "fix" these problems and yet its only getting worse !

Totally agree with everything that you just said. What annoys me the most is progressives claiming that these tent people are just 'down on their luck' and we are 'privileged'. No. I work hard for my money so that I can put a roof over my head, and actively chose not to get addicted to — drugs. These people on the streets are 99.9% — drug addicts or mentally unwell people. Pretty much zero of them are just down on their luck and lost their job. It's such a complete lie and I don't understand why people buy into it. We can fix the problem if we just acknowledge what it actually is, drugs.

[Allroadsleadtoham]

Right, so my wife and I chose to move to Hamilton because we fell in love with the city. We rented in west Toronto where I lived and worked for 15 years. I was born and raised in Mississauga/Oakville area so I would come into Hamilton from time to time to catch a show and maybe hit up Hess. I think the downtown core has incredible potential. It reminds me of Toronto. It’s rich in character, the houses are gorgeous and so is gage park.

Now, from an outside perspective I would say the city looks and feels tired (very tired). The roads are terrible, the streets are dark(barely illuminated). We run most of our errands on the mountain because there are minimal amenities down town. These are just a couple of things that stand out to me. The other main things that stand out ( besides the homeless issue) are the amount of low income and unemployed. Now, I’m not saying this is necessarily a bad thing however the balance in Hamilton heavily sways to low income/ unemployed side .When you travel to say Stoney creek or Ancaster the roads are nicely paved, there are multiple grocery stores,lots of places to shop and clean parks to walk through. It is very evident where the municipal tax revenue really comes from , spent and where it isn’t. So, to arrive at my point. I think the residential growth in the city is a GOOD thing. This will provide more tax revenue to the downtown Wards and councillors who represent these folks will have a better argument on where and how to spend tax money.

Toronto saw a huge influx of professionals move into the city in the early 2010’s . The growth was driven mainly by millennials who grew up in the tired and boring suburbs in search of a more vibrant and exciting lifestyle in the city. Vibrant and exciting don’t come to mind when you think of and walk through Hamilton. The city is tired and needs a serious face lift. Now, you can’t compare Hamilton to Toronto in most respects. Toronto is Canadas financial capital and is littered with head offices from our countries major corps . The downtown core alone is head office to all of our countries major banks, law firms and tech firms. That alone means thousands of jobs right off the bat possible hundreds of thousands. Hamilton is not Toronto. Hamilton is a small city with character and can transform it self into say a Brooklyn to NYC type thing. It can only do this if it makes it self attractive to professionals and it can only happen organically.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by Allroadsleadtoham

Right, so my wife and I chose to move to Hamilton because we fell in love with the city. We rented in west Toronto where I lived and worked for 15 years. I was born and raised in Mississauga/Oakville area so I would come into Hamilton from time to time to catch a show and maybe hit up Hess. I think the downtown core has incredible potential. It reminds me of Toronto. It’s rich in character, the houses are gorgeous and so is gage park.

Now, from an outside perspective I would say the city looks and feels tired (very tired). The roads are terrible, the streets are dark(barely illuminated). We run most of our errands on the mountain because there are minimal amenities down town. These are just a couple of things that stand out to me. The other main things that stand out ( besides the homeless issue) are the amount of low income and unemployed. Now, I’m not saying this is necessarily a bad thing however the balance in Hamilton heavily sways to low income/ unemployed side .When you travel to say Stoney creek or Ancaster the roads are nicely paved, there are multiple grocery stores,lots of places to shop and clean parks to walk through. It is very evident where the municipal tax revenue really comes from , spent and where it isn’t. So, to arrive at my point. I think the residential growth in the city is a GOOD thing. This will provide more tax revenue to the downtown Wards and councillors who represent these folks will have a better argument on where and how to spend tax money.

Toronto saw a huge influx of professionals move into the city in the early 2010’s . The growth was driven mainly by millennials who grew up in the tired and boring suburbs in search of a more vibrant and exciting lifestyle in the city. Vibrant and exciting don’t come to mind when you think of and walk through Hamilton. The city is tired and needs a serious face lift. Now, you can’t compare Hamilton to Toronto in most respects. Toronto is Canadas financial capital and is littered with head offices from our countries major corps . The downtown core alone is head office to all of our countries major banks, law firms and tech firms. That alone means thousands of jobs right off the bat possible hundreds of thousands. Hamilton is not Toronto. Hamilton is a small city with character and can transform it self into say a Brooklyn to NYC type thing. It can only do this if it makes it self attractive to professionals and it can only happen organically.

I agree with a lot of this. I've often looked around areas and thought, "well, if the street and infrastructure itself didn't look like trash, this view would only be half half as bad", PLUS people might look after their own building/yard more.

Even when the city does some "attempts" at beautification, it's still ugly haphazard concrete planter boxes that seem more like a disguised car barrier or something. And doesn't hide the crumbling asphalt and concrete.

What a lot of our streets need, in the East end especially, are trees. But it's probably cost-prohibitive to plant decently-sized trees if there isn't already good soil somewhere.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

what people dont realize is that this problem of "people shooting up in alleyways" & "shitting in laneways" and begging for money is in every city .... the difference is that other cities have tons of other people walking, shopping and living in these areas and create a huge distraction - almost making the undesirables become invisible.
Toronto is FAR worse than Hamilton when it comes to homeless, drug addicts roaming the streets... you just dont see them in the crowds as much.

and yes we have more people downtown Hamilton now than we have in a while and things have changed drastically, however, Covid created and new problem - we now have tent cities popping up everywhere and the cops seem to just turn a blind eye to it for some reason, i cant even believe that our parks have become tent cities for homeless and drug addicted people !!!
people literally blocking sidewalks and bike lanes in their sleeping bags surrounded by piles of — and garbage and yet the police will drive right by or walk right over them .

we pay obscene amoumts in taxes in this province (and country) to "fix" these problems and yet its only getting worse !

They are afraid of cancel culture, as is everyone these days. The police are afraid if they act people will be like YOU'RE DEPRIVING THESE PEOPLE OF HOMES!!

These people need to be put in a "home" for lack of a better term - if they're unwell they're unwell. If they're lazy that also is a form of unwell. People who don't wanna work and just wanna bum around should not be enabled. But I am sure just me saying that would spark backlash from the bleeding hearts on this forum which is the exact reason the police just walk on by.

And yes, hamilton looks tired, because it IS tired. A good majority of hamilton is 1-2 centuries old and the buildings show the wear and tear time has wrought. That's not the problems of the buildings, that's just an unfortunate side effect of time. We should be happy we didn't tear down all our old buildings like a lot of other cities did - it's why people film a lot of movies here because we still have that character. It's one reason I grit my teeth every time "progress" comes along with another boring rectangular block that charges a fortune for no character and just an asian style stacking of bodies one on top of each other.

And it's not the peoples fault either - many choose simply to put food on the table vs try to clean up their crumbling buildings. I wish there was a corporation that would go around and offer to facelift these places, but then comes the evil giant of "gentrification" - get out so we can facelift it and charge 500% more. Hamilton does have a lot of low income people and it always has, because generations of them have lived in places that offered really low rents, and so you get a culture of that eventually, with all the pitfalls that brings.

Hamilton also has a lot of people who are just.. unwell, either physical injuries mental injuries been in accidents can't work scooter people from obesity etc. And we tend to cater to those types. All the above points are valid and the drug issue is not going to go away anytime soon. The question becomes is someone going to move to toronto or hamilton who is a big corporation - toronto has their issues sure but they also have tons of rich people - hamilton is still trying to figure out what it wants to be in many regards.

King william proved we CAN do it - for anyone who remembers the 90s and early 2000s that road was —. The lister block was boarded up, william thomas was boarded up, all the buildings looked poorly painted or were falling apart - they refaced those buildings, built a couple new better looking ones (boring lister annex aside) and BOOM it exploded - now it's a beautiful little stretch, a tiny little reminder of what hamilton once was - we now need to do that with the gore, and to their credit, they are trying.. although some weird super modern monstrosities pop up here and there like that one with the giant antennas sticking out the top across from the royal connaught like some sorta cordyceps lol..

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Hamilton also has a lot of people who are just.. unwell, either physical injuries mental injuries been in accidents can't work scooter people from obesity etc. And we tend to cater to those types. All the above points are valid and the drug issue is not going to go away anytime soon. The question becomes is someone going to move to toronto or hamilton who is a big corporation - toronto has their issues sure but they also have tons of rich people - hamilton is still trying to figure out what it wants to be in many regards.

King william proved we CAN do it - for anyone who remembers the 90s and early 2000s that road was —. The lister block was boarded up, william thomas was boarded up, all the buildings looked poorly painted or were falling apart - they refaced those buildings, built a couple new better looking ones (boring lister annex aside) and BOOM it exploded - now it's a beautiful little stretch, a tiny little reminder of what hamilton once was - we now need to do that with the gore, and to their credit, they are trying.. although some weird super modern monstrosities pop up here and there like that one with the giant antennas sticking out the top across from the royal connaught like some sorta cordyceps lol..

These are both very interesting observations to me as a relatively recent Hamiltonian (~3yrs). Despite having lived in a variety of cities, including Vancouver, Toronto, Surrey, Richmond, Kamloops, and Kelowna prior to moving to Hamilton, I hadn't really been exposed to a largely labour-based workforce and the sheer number of broken bodies and damaged people that are a structural part of that form of work. Kamloops was the most blue collar city I had previously lived in, but maybe the nature of employment there just doesn't take the same physical and mental toll on folks as working in heavy industry?

With respect to King William, this is a textbook example of focusing on building up a nucleus of renewal and recovery, often as small as a single block, and having it make a wildly disproportionate positive impact on a city. It is tough, too, because it's a clear-cut case of picking winners, which a city shouldn't necessarily do, but there's also no debating that it is an effective approach to urban renewal and recovery.

As a planner, I feel like it should be the job of Councilors and BIAs to identify those renewal and recovery nuclei and direct resources to support them, with the expressed intent of supporting them long-term (~10 yrs) through visible measures like better street lighting, robust waste and graffiti removal, grants to façade renewal and restoration, expedited planning and development applications, and especially pedestrian-focused street redesign (frequent ped-controlled signalized crosswalks [every second block or better], bus stops with weather protection and improved lighting, curb bump-outs, street trees, street furniture, permanent patios, on-street parking and separated cycle track, etc.). When that nucleus naturally expands to the size of several blocks, identify the next up-and-coming nucleus and do it again.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

These are both very interesting observations to me as a relatively recent Hamiltonian (~3yrs). Despite having lived in a variety of cities, including Vancouver, Toronto, Surrey, Richmond, Kamloops, and Kelowna prior to moving to Hamilton, I hadn't really been exposed to a largely labour-based workforce and the sheer number of broken bodies and damaged people that are a structural part of that form of work. Kamloops was the most blue collar city I had previously lived in, but maybe the nature of employment there just doesn't take the same physical and mental toll on folks as working in heavy industry?

With respect to King William, this is a textbook example of focusing on building up a nucleus of renewal and recovery, often as small as a single block, and having it make a wildly disproportionate positive impact on a city. It is tough, too, because it's a clear-cut case of picking winners, which a city shouldn't necessarily do, but there's also no debating that it is an effective approach to urban renewal and recovery.

As a planner, I feel like it should be the job of Councilors and BIAs to identify those renewal and recovery nuclei and direct resources to support them, with the expressed intent of supporting them long-term (~10 yrs) through visible measures like better street lighting, robust waste and graffiti removal, grants to façade renewal and restoration, expedited planning and development applications, and especially pedestrian-focused street redesign (frequent ped-controlled signalized crosswalks [every second block or better], bus stops with weather protection and improved lighting, curb bump-outs, street trees, street furniture, permanent patios, on-street parking and separated cycle track, etc.). When that nucleus naturally expands to the size of several blocks, identify the next up-and-coming nucleus and do it again.

The people you see walking around Gore Park in the middle of the afternoon are not blue collar working class people. Blue collar working class people live in nice houses on the mountain and in Stoney Creek etc. They make good money, dress nicely and are regular tax paying members of society. Those people you see walking around are generally on disability or other government income and don't work. They have mental/addiction issues, and live in subsidizes city housing. They are the result of this city's over funding of social services, and many of them come from surrounding cities and towns. For some reason Hamilton opened many many social services downtown in the 90's and 2000s because of certain councillors and other governments of the time, and it is part of the reason why there is such a high concentration of such people downtown.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

The people you see walking around Gore Park in the middle of the afternoon are not blue collar working class people. Blue collar working class people live in nice houses on the mountain and in Stoney Creek etc. They make good money, dress nicely and are regular tax paying members of society. Those people you see walking around are generally on disability or other government income and don't work. They have mental/addiction issues, and live in subsidizes city housing. They are the result of this city's over funding of social services, and many of them come from surrounding cities and towns. For some reason Hamilton opened many many social services downtown in the 90's and 2000s because of certain councillors and other governments of the time, and it is part of the reason why there is such a high concentration of such people downtown.

I'd argue it's more an issue of surrounding cities and towns underfunding their social service needs. There are anecdotal stories of people in other places being given cab fare and told to head to Hamilton (or Toronto). I find them to be believable.

Hamilton's own needs became very apparent when much of the industry closed up shop from the later 1970s to the 1990s. Hence the funding to help those people. That the demand grew is not surprising... people will go where they can find what they need.

Rather than putting blame on the city councils of the day (though there was a NIMBY-ism from suburban councillors about where services should be located) I point the finger at the province who helped created this uneven playing field by putting the onus for social services on the municipalities. Over time that level of government has given one-time additional funding to cities like Hamilton, but it doesn't solve the problem.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

These are both very interesting observations to me as a relatively recent Hamiltonian (~3yrs). Despite having lived in a variety of cities, including Vancouver, Toronto, Surrey, Richmond, Kamloops, and Kelowna prior to moving to Hamilton, I hadn't really been exposed to a largely labour-based workforce and the sheer number of broken bodies and damaged people that are a structural part of that form of work. Kamloops was the most blue collar city I had previously lived in, but maybe the nature of employment there just doesn't take the same physical and mental toll on folks as working in heavy industry?

I think hard physical labour (in often poor conditions... heat, pollution, noise, etc.) certainly takes a toll. But I also think it was more the loss of those jobs that has been hardest on the city's 'blue collar' workers. That income payed for mortgages, children's education, nights out, and even just simple pleasures like beer and burgers in a backyard after a shift was done.

The generation that last worked in those jobs is disappearing, but the legacy left to families is still big.

[Chronamut]

I think you all brought up valid perspectives- many are the druggy/welfare/unemployed - some generational, many came from other places, many came when they shut the mental hospitals down, and many are just.. broken people.

They maybe had bad families, turned to drugs, never got the help they needed - or they buried themselves in hard labour jobs, then got in an accident and fell between the cracks, or just normal people who got in a bad accident, started taking pain medication, got addicted to it for pain management, stopped working, gained weight, became obese, I've heard so many stories like that.. it's like the crazy cat lady from the simpsons, at one point she was a normal person but then went insane - many if not all of these people were "stable" people once upon a time.. many.. not all. Some just grew up in broken families and were doomed to repeat the cycle because they got no help or education to ever break the cycle.

Hamilton often feels like the hardworking laborer that never got a break. Blue-collar people may live up on the mountain NOW, but there is a reason all those small houses line the factories - they used to live there - they grew up inhaling very toxic air, and had a slew of health problems - both themselves and their children. Remember it's not just the backbreaking steel plant labour that was the issue, or any of the other manufacturing plants that used to be here and are now long gone.. but all the toxicity and chemicals that used to be in those various industries. - Heck bayfront part was a dump, a literal dump they turned into a park - and we have a concrete bunker in the bay underwater to contain the most toxic of sludge that's been poured into the bay. Imagine how that affects the body over the decades. We may have "good" filtration now, but it wasn't always like that..

I am sure us older generations all remember the sorta "black gunk" that used to rain down from the steel mills until they made them safer, or the plastics fire, or any of the other natural disasters - hell even pharmaceuticals - remember the medication they gave pregnant women to prevent morning sickness that ended up having people born with hands but no arms? You see some of those downtown too. I saw a map recently that showed the rates of cancer as you get closer to the plants..

Hamilton NOW is largely a product of the mistakes of the past 50-80 years finally catching up with us.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

I think we also need to make a distinction between the core and north end of the city and the rest of the city- there are many high income households and very rich people in our city as well - we shouldn't be referring to the entire city as a low income "blue collar" city

[Allroadsleadtoham]

[QUOTE=HamiltonBoyInToronto;10114157]I think we also need to make a distinction between the core and north end of the city and the rest of the city- there are many high income households and very rich people in our city as well - we shouldn't be referring to the entire city as a low income "blue-collar".

There's always outliers. I've spoken to bar and restaurant owners on Augusta and James. Most of their clients are from outside the city core and typically dine on weekends. When business is only busy on weekends you know those weekend warriors are suburban folks. Aint no people splashing cash from downtown Hamilton. Not yet anyway. What we really need is some of that China student money.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

[QUOTE=Allroadsleadtoham;10114194][QUOTE=HamiltonBoyInToronto;10114157]I think we also need to make a distinction between the core and north end of the city and the rest of the city- there are many high income households and very rich people in our city as well - we shouldn't be referring to the entire city as a low income "blue-collar".


There are definitely people with money downtown now - just not much to do on a regular basis - we have been to all the restaurants over and over and yes we like to support local businesses as much as we can but there is only soo much you do... did people live in the farms of the Meadowlands befoee they were built ? No-- they built all these stores and shops etc and people just started going --- the only thing to do downtown is the art gallery and a bunch of restaurants and bars-
My partner and I dont drink and we have been to every restaurant multiple times
We walk the city for leisure every day and always wish that there was something more to do

[Chronamut]

[QUOTE=Allroadsleadtoham;10114194]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

I think we also need to make a distinction between the core and north end of the city and the rest of the city- there are many high income households and very rich people in our city as well - we shouldn't be referring to the entire city as a low income "blue-collar".

There's always outliers. I've spoken to bar and restaurant owners on Augusta and James. Most of their clients are from outside the city core and typically dine on weekends. When business is only busy on weekends you know those weekend warriors are suburban folks. Aint no people splashing cash from downtown Hamilton. Not yet anyway. What we really need is some of that China student money.

That's china student PARENT money lol - those kids don't have it.

Also who taught you people how to quote LOL - both your quotes are broken

Hamiltonboy said it the best, there needs to be more to do - you're building all these places for people to live but there still isn't much for anyone to do but walk and eat.

Now what I would love is for someone to show in various eras, what there WAS to do downtown - I could, but I don't feel like it lol.

Movies and burlesque shows were one, and of course strip joints. There was a lot of seediness going on hehe, and of course bowling at the olympia club - the rest was mainly shopping. And of course the horse races where center mall is now. Womens collece where the connaught is now.. banks and all the govt stuff which hasn't changed much..

I don't think people really had much fun in the past - they mainly just worked lol, saw a picture or two.. gambled..

I'd still love to see a fair down by the water at pier 8 - extend the pier out - put a giant ferris wheel, booths, etc. Works for niagara, the ferris wheel anyways, even if it sometimes feels a bit kitschy.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Now what I would love is for someone to show in various eras, what there WAS to do downtown - I could, but I don't feel like it lol.

And the live theatre. While we're lucky much of the old building stock wasn't demolished, we lost so many of the theatres.

I guess "entertainment" depends on the person. I am quite happy to experience new restaurants and re-visit the older ones over and over, walk around, do Art Crawl, etc.. I don't personally need something flashy, though I can see how a "Playdium" would appeal to some people.

Downtown could use more festivals. Supercrawl is now a big deal, even if the weather is poor. Why not have other big ones in the spring and summer? Even winter... our winters aren't all that bad weather-wise.

Years ago there was a debate about allowing a casino downtown. I'm glad that idea died on the vine, as I think it would simply have sucked money out of people to the detriment of other businesses. But there are people who would have loved it, too.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

And the live theatre. While we're lucky much of the old building stock wasn't demolished, we lost so many of the theatres.

I guess "entertainment" depends on the person. I am quite happy to experience new restaurants and re-visit the older ones over and over, walk around, do Art Crawl, etc.. I don't personally need something flashy, though I can see how a "Playdium" would appeal to some people.

Downtown could use more festivals. Supercrawl is now a big deal, even if the weather is poor. Why not have other big ones in the spring and summer? Even winter... our winters aren't all that bad weather-wise.

Years ago there was a debate about allowing a casino downtown. I'm glad that idea died on the vine, as I think it would simply have sucked money out of people to the detriment of other businesses. But there are people who would have loved it, too.

A casino might work in future with more high paying people downtown but it would definitely have to be regulated in some way to prevent poor people from becoming poorer.. and.. yes from sucking life out of the businesses around it.

We used to have a LOT more festivals and parades in the gore area but that was when we were still part of the commonwealth - ticker tape parades etc. I would love to see that come back.

For me I live in the east end, so I would love something to draw me out more to the core. I always forget about art crawl, which is ironic becuase I used to be in one of the galleries during art crawl. I found many were people simply looking - most of the sales came during supercrawl - now I'm just tired of lugging stuff around lol.. rather just people go to my online sites and buy it there.. I also feel after a time it sorta feels like the peach festival, you feel like you've seen it all after a while.. so really only supercrawl pulls me out these days.

I feel the bar scene is kinda dying with the advent of hookup apps. People don't need to risk rejection in person or confrontation with people. We do so many things virtually that we used to do in person. I was actually watching "pretty woman" yesterday and was just blown away by how much things have changed - all the fancy shops with the women all dolled up - the fancy royal connaught-esque hotels, the sense of money everywhere, but with that came the sense of class systems - poverty and hookers on one end - women who didn't associate with "lower class" on the next. Downtown definitely used to have that vibe in the 80s.

I often struggle with what downtown should be, because our culture is changing at such a rapid pace I don't think cities can really keep up. But as it stands even though they are building a lot of new buildings, the majority of them I either can't enter or never will enter - the only walkable parts seem to be the core around king and james.

And yes hamilton used to have over 50 single screen theatres, which before that were vaudeville and burlesque theatres. The cineplexes pretty much put all those out of businesses - most of them went under between the 60s and 80s I believe. I remember there was the center mall theatre me and my sister used to go to a lot growing up, although that was several screens iirc, that and of course fiesta mall theatres.

As I get older I find the concept of what I enjoy in my spare time changes too. Like I won't go out if the weather is cold so I hibernate all winter lol. I also tend to use skipthedishes a lot these days because going downtown and finding a place to park is a pain.

I kinda wish that pub behind sapporos would re-open, I've always wanted to go inside just never had an opportunity to. If I lived downtown id need a bar, a grocery store, a shoppers and a bank.

One thing I really love that this city now has is the greenhouse in gage park - its sooo peaceful in the wintertime there. I think itd be really cool if say buildings like the cobalt towers had attached at the top an arborium all greenhoused in that you could escape to with big trees and felt like you were among nature more. I feel people are happier when they are engaging with nature more. Some sorta walkable nature corridor would be great too.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Some sorta walkable nature corridor would be great too.

This is a good idea for the City Centre mall space, though ideas are out of anyone's hands except the owner's.

An indoor arboretum connected to the proposed condos and Jackson Square. It wouldn't have to be run by the city or a building management company... perhaps the RBG would be open to doing that? It would be a very unique thing.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

This is a good idea for the City Centre mall space, though ideas are out of anyone's hands except the owner's.

An indoor arboretum connected to the proposed condos and Jackson Square. It wouldn't have to be run by the city or a building management company... perhaps the RBG would be open to doing that? It would be a very unique thing.

Yeah something like that would be beautiful - could even demolish the parking garage in the back, but keep the bridge over the road and extend it farther north.

[mattgrande]

We used to have so many more (smaller) festivals. Mustard Fest, Wing Fest, the chilli one on Augusta Street, I'm forgotting a bunch...