Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yup, quite ridiculous that they didn't take the time to design something functional right off the bat. It can somewhat be forgiven for Blair and Tunney's since both are "temporary", but not Hurdman.

As others have said, loop buses around the station. One side can be drop-off, the other pick-up. Would love to have seen the concourse enclosed with benches and next bus arrival screens.

While I agree with the idea of having buses loop around the LRT station, but folks on here need to understand that many fundamental design decisions were made prior to the actual design phase. The project agreement mandated the station footprint (e.g. so many platforms, stops, layby spaces, etc.), the property constraints (NCC owns the land immediately north of the elevated guideway), limits on excavation due to the presence of landfill, and the list goes on. All the bidders prepared bids with this in mind.

The City and OC Transpo imposed the above limits and baked it into the PA for Stage 1. Planning and transit staff had no idea how to build/run rail and it shows. Hopefully things improve for Stage 2, but that remains to be seen. OC is notorious at spending money without thinking things through - we are paying for it with crappy transit service.

Even after starting the design, RTG proposed to reduce the number of platforms at Hurdman and make the station more compact because we were going from 180 buses per hour at the peak to something closer to 60 buses per hour and OC flat-out said NO! Savings that could have been spent on a proper covered platform for the bus loop. Easily things that other cities get, but not here.

[OTownandDown]

Interesting that the councillor seems to have deleted that entire thread from his X.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Interesting that the councillor seems to have deleted that entire thread from his X.

It was linked incorrectly. His tweets are still there: https://twitter.com/RiverWardRiley/s...65480538759626

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

It was linked incorrectly. His tweets are still there: https://twitter.com/RiverWardRiley/s...65480538759626

hwoopsie.

[Richard Eade]

I see that R1 bus service had to replace the trains on the eastern end of the Confederation Line on Saturday evening, from 18:00 to 19:30. According to this CTV News story, a train stopped “between St. Laurent and Blair stations”.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/o-train-se...rain-1.6651324
We are not privy to whether the train was moving toward Blair or was west-bound when it “stopped”.

With a track cross-over just west of St. Laurent and one just west of Blair, there would be only one place that the train could have stopped that would have prevented any east-end train service – right on the switch west of Blair. This is the only place that a stopped train could block both tracks. Anywhere else, OC Transpo should have been able to quickly switch to single-track operation.

It would be interesting to know if the problem was the switch operation – in which case, was there any damage to the train or the tracks? Or a power issue as the pantograph moved from one side to the other? A train control issue, either on-board or at the control centre? Or a random issue, mechanical or electrical, that could have appeared anywhere? And I’d like to know how the train was returned to the maintenance yard – under its own power, dragged by another electric vehicle, or pulled with the new diesel-powered ‘Tug’?

OC Transpo should be providing Councillors with a memo each time there is an issue that affects service. In it, there should be a description of the issue, cause and effects, and any follow-on work that is needed (i.e., Did the issue lead to learning something that could change current processes?) Such memos should be included in the agenda of the following meeting of the LRT Sub-Committee, so that they are also available to the public.

I found it interesting that the article mentions that “No passengers were trapped onboard the stopped train”. Does this mean that there were no passengers at all on the train? Or that they were allowed to get off the train? I suspect that it is the former. The article does not provide enough information to know if the particular train was either just entering or exiting service, and, thus, not available for passengers. Or whether there were simply no passengers due to the low ridership that the trains are currently experiencing.

Relying on the few Xs (formerly Tweets) that OC Transpo puts out for information does not lead to much transparency.

[zzptichka]

4 HOLDs this week observed by this reddit user: https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comm...eek_the_train/

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

4 HOLDs this week observed by this reddit user: https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comm...eek_the_train/

How do we avoid this from getting much worse when Phase 2 opens with double or triple the amount of track and LRT vehicles? The problem does not seem to be going away even after 4 years of service.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I see that R1 bus service had to replace the trains on the eastern end of the Confederation Line on Saturday evening, from 18:00 to 19:30. According to this CTV News story, a train stopped “between St. Laurent and Blair stations”.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/o-train-se...rain-1.6651324
We are not privy to whether the train was moving toward Blair or was west-bound when it “stopped”.

With a track cross-over just west of St. Laurent and one just west of Blair, there would be only one place that the train could have stopped that would have prevented any east-end train service – right on the switch west of Blair. This is the only place that a stopped train could block both tracks. Anywhere else, OC Transpo should have been able to quickly switch to single-track operation.

It would be interesting to know if the problem was the switch operation – in which case, was there any damage to the train or the tracks? Or a power issue as the pantograph moved from one side to the other? A train control issue, either on-board or at the control centre? Or a random issue, mechanical or electrical, that could have appeared anywhere? And I’d like to know how the train was returned to the maintenance yard – under its own power, dragged by another electric vehicle, or pulled with the new diesel-powered ‘Tug’?

OC Transpo should be providing Councillors with a memo each time there is an issue that affects service. In it, there should be a description of the issue, cause and effects, and any follow-on work that is needed (i.e., Did the issue lead to learning something that could change current processes?) Such memos should be included in the agenda of the following meeting of the LRT Sub-Committee, so that they are also available to the public.

I found it interesting that the article mentions that “No passengers were trapped onboard the stopped train”. Does this mean that there were no passengers at all on the train? Or that they were allowed to get off the train? I suspect that it is the former. The article does not provide enough information to know if the particular train was either just entering or exiting service, and, thus, not available for passengers. Or whether there were simply no passengers due to the low ridership that the trains are currently experiencing.

Relying on the few Xs (formerly Tweets) that OC Transpo puts out for information does not lead to much transparency.

There were trucks working on the overhead wiring where Stage 2 meets Stage 1 just outside of Blair station both days this weekend. You could see they had a ground strap installed on the overhead wire at the end of Platform 2, which would mean no trains were using that track and would limit their options if there was an issue with the remaining track.

[lrt's friend]

Boston has eerily similar problems as Ottawa (rail shutdowns, derailments, go slow orders, downtown based radial design, poor post-pandemic ridership recovery) with no easy fixes. The solution is build a transit system that is less dependent on downtown commuters, for example, the long delayed Baseline BRT. A lot of interesting issues are presented in this video. It also points out errors that Ottawa has been making in designing transit. It also explains why bus ridership recovery has been higher than rail ridership recovery and how oddly longer distance commuter rail has recovered much faster than urban rail.

• Video Link

[BanjoUnchained]

LRT out of service between Blair and St. Laurent for a "Structural inspection"

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/o-train-ou...tion-1.6707597

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by BanjoUnchained

LRT out of service between Blair and St. Laurent for a "Structural inspection"

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/o-train-ou...tion-1.6707597

St.Laurent Station is under inspection not the LRT infrastructure.

This ones on the city for not paying for a full rebuild.

[J.OT13]

Would be ironic if Stage 2 East was done on time (or mostly on time), but could not open for another few years because St. Laurent needs a rebuild.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Would be ironic if Stage 2 East was done on time (or mostly on time), but could not open for another few years because St. Laurent needs a rebuild.

That would truly be disastrous for OC Transpo and for the City of Ottawa.

Years ago, I advocated for rail to follow a completely new alignment going east. The thinking being that a new route would also generate new ridership. But a further benefit, is that we would have completely new infrastructure for the trains.

Remember, the major rehabilitation that was needed for the Hurdman Transitway bridge, already 25 years old before conversion. And keeping the Transitway open would facilitate bus movement into downtown when trains were inevitably not operational.

[lrt's friend]

Concrete debris found along the tracks. The line 'may' re-open later tonight

[lrt's friend]

Full Service was restored at about 5 p.m. (thankfully)

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Would be ironic if Stage 2 East was done on time (or mostly on time), but could not open for another few years because St. Laurent needs a rebuild.

Maybe they'll build a spur from Rideau Centre to Blair via Montreal Road

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

That would truly be disastrous for OC Transpo and for the City of Ottawa.

Years ago, I advocated for rail to follow a completely new alignment going east. The thinking being that a new route would also generate new ridership. But a further benefit, is that we would have completely new infrastructure for the trains.

Remember, the major rehabilitation that was needed for the Hurdman Transitway bridge, already 25 years old before conversion. And keeping the Transitway open would facilitate bus movement into downtown when trains were inevitably not operational.

Yeah, it was one of those false economies. Following the BRT was supposed to save money, but so much has needed reconstruction (or will need it in the near future) that a new route probably would have been cheaper.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Median of the Queensway (which as widened anyway as part of this project) would seem to be to be a possibility. That is what they ended up doing east of Blair anyway. That would have replaced a number of tight curves with one gentle curve. Elevated in the corridor (like REM) would be another possibility.

Building along the Queensway doesn't serve the bulk of riders. Remember that the original goal was to relieve bus congestion in the core and add capacity in the core for anticipated future growth. Stage 1 connects major transport hubs, employment nodes, and a university. Most of that wasn't close to the Queensway.

The only reason LRT is using the Queensway median in Orleans is because there's no other alternative and because the Queensway happens to be near the major node for Orleans (Place D'Orleans). And unlike Stage 1, the majority of Orleans stations have their ridership fed by buses so station placement doesn't have to be very walkable. It's nice to have. Not must have.

As for curves, it's a reliability problem, not a cost problem. And it's a problem largely driven by design. They could have used larger radi curves in the downtown core. They could have done a better job with Hurdman (if they took some NCC land). But those were design choices. And those choices paired badly with the rolling stock they picked. The TTC has tight curves in the downtown core too. You don't see their subway cars derailing all the time.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have commented even before the Confederation Line opened about the lack of resiliency. Even though we have parallel roads going east, we have little and very infrequent transit service. It is automatically assumed that people should walk or transfer to rail.

But with the frequency of rail failure, should we not offer an alternative which would also facilitate local trips? I am thinking of a frequent route that starts at Trim and follows St. Joseph Boulevard (there is no through transit route on St. Joseph) and then Ogilvie and Coventry Roads. I am not sure if it should go downtown or terminate at Hurdman Station. Nevertheless, this route parallels LRT but also offers closer local service to countless residences and businesses than can be offered by the limited number of LRT stations.

You should talk to your neighbours. They keep electing councillors and mayors who keep cutting transit funding. 2024 starts with a fare increase and 70 000+ hrs of bus service cut.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You should talk to your neighbours. They keep electing councillors and mayors who keep cutting transit funding. 2024 starts with a fare increase and 70 000+ hrs of bus service cut.

The challenge is the ongoing bad press. How do you get the support of taxpayers when the system is running so badly. I remember this was a big concern back in 2006. What if the train runs badly and we never move on to Phase 2? Well, here we are, exactly what was feared. Only it is worse, since Phase 1 affects the entire city. We would not have proceeded with Phase 2 if we had not approved it before the opening of Phase 1. Hopefully, Phase 2 doesn't make transit even worse. We will see, but I am left very nervous seeing how Phase 1 has panned out.

I talked to people over the holidays and there are many who are literally afraid to use the train. Now, that shows how bad the perception is out there. I have used the train many times without major issues, so that does not apply to me, but I can't convince anybody under the current circumstances.