Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by northernlights99

while we are discussing Cost versus Benefit, the BC Government thinks its worth it to splurge $ 200 million to keep FIFA happy so they can host 5 soccer games in Vancouver ( likely some games involving Canada who nobody is excited to watch lose and none to be important playoff games ) though I see they are keeping cost details secret pending a decision on a Freedom of Information request :

https://biv.com/article/2023/12/worl...novations-2011

Depends on ticket prices potential hotel and restaurant revenue generated by the 5 games. Maybe it breaks even?

[northernlights99]

Who is breaking even ? The BC Government ? Since when are they getting a cut of hotel and restaurant revenue ?

So if the Marriott hotel charges $ 2000 per night during a game at the adjacent stadium, they share this revenue with the BC Government ?

The bars and restaurants along Robson and Granville will give the Government a cut of their revenue ? Who says ?

This is what I can't fathom. I get attacked on here for standing behind Taylor Swift saying that her concerts would be an economic boom for the Montreal area under a revamped Olympic stadium, roof or not.

But somehow it's justified that the BC Government spends $ 200 million to bribe FIFA for 5 soccer games ?

Different rules for Vancouver and Montreal ?

Double standard. If there is economic benefit for the 5 soccer games in Vancouver, then there is equivalent benefits for 3 Swift shows in Montreal.

Be consistent in your arguments.

Quebec government has to come clean with the truths, they gotta stop this crapp that it was just the Eras Tour that bypassed Olympic Stadium.

That is just part of the story. Each of Swift's stadium tours have played at either Rogers Center, BC Place, even IG Field in Winnipeg.

Each tour bypassed Olympic Stadium.

So she plays Winnipeg in 2015 and not Olympic Stadium ? The stadium has been bypassed the better part of the last decade, why does the Quebec Government not fess up ?

The Government has had numerous opportunities to do this work, each time they kick the can down the street.

Here are her tour itenaries for last 4 stadium tours, each time she purposely avoided Olympic Stadium.

So Lego's team had better come prepared for this upcoming presser on the future of Olympic stadium and start coming clean with the truth and stop avoiding admitting the facts. This has been a royal screw up till now.

Tours have been avoiding the stadium for over a decade, not just this current tour.

For the Red Tour in '13 to '14 she did Rogers Center two shows, BC Place, even Investors Group field in Winnipeg but avoided Montreal completely, read the schedules here :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eras_Tour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reputation_Stadium_Tour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_1989_World_Tour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Tour

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by northernlights99

....Taylor Swift....Swift....Eras Tour....Swift's stadium tours....tour itenaries....Red Tour....

Could you maybe, possibly, please post something about anything other than Taylor Swift?

[northernlights99]

Ok we will set aside Swift for now, let's take the Sports angle since the majority of events in a revamped stadium will be Sports.

As I see it, in order to justify the expense of these renovations, there has to be a tie in with at least two of these three.

1. the Alouettes

2. the Impact

3. the 2026 World Cup

1. The Als. Their lease with Molson / Mcgill Stadium is until 2029, possibly there is an opt out clause that may allow them to leave sooner. Many leases have an option to back out before.

Mcgill Stadium is old. The benches are not appealing. It's not the best stadium in cold damp weather. Some seats are near some cold gas pipes with a Warning sign that the pipes could blast cold air at any time, not very appealing.

The Als could use a revamped Olympic Stadium as leverage to get renovations done for Mcgill.

But I question whether its worth it to upgrade Mcgill stadium. It is old looking. This is a tough one.

The location however is appealing, it's beautiful, with bars near by. I've been to several games in the fall and the scenery is amazing.

However with a revamped Olympic Stadium, that could be an attractive option for the Als.

Plus the 2026 Grey Cup ? 2025 goes to Winnipeg. Will Montreal bid for '26 in an open air stadium, possibly with grass ?

2. The Impact. They seem happy in their stadium but a revamped Olympic Stadium could open the door to more early season games and Playoff games, not to mention more International level matches which have drawn impressive crowds in the past.

3. The 2026 World Cup.

this is the kicker why I believe Olympic Stadium should get the massive renovations and a rebuilt technical ring however remove the Center part and be left as Open air for two years till end of '26 then cover the opening for '27.

Montreal pulled out of the World Cup bid due to cost. I assume much of that cost to do with renovating Olympic Stadium.

Assuming those renovation plans go ahead with an announcement next month, would Montreal not re bid for some World Cup games ?

Can a bid be re opened ? Why is it too late ?

I mean they say they will spend a whole lot of money rebuilding Olympic stadium but this money issue was the reason why Montreal pulled out of the WC bid in 2021 or at least the main reason.

Install a grass field for 2026 much like Vancouver is doing. Olympic Stadium was an Open air stadium for many years, granted it was a long time ago in the Expos days.

Many concerts were played in Olympic before a roof was installed.

The technical ring must be rebuilt and the stadium will need massive renovations, granted.

But the center part where the blue roof is, that can be removed for a couple of years and would be inviting to many different types of events that do well in outdoor conditions.

Doesn't the World Cup bid require outdoor conditions ? BMO Field meets that and BC Place is roof retractable.

Leave Olympic as Open air till 2027. Make this project a Multi phase.

There is a lot of interior work that can be completed during 2024. Why does this have to be rushed ?

Having Olympic as Open air for two years would also open the door to an Outdoor hockey game but the novelty of those rinks in outdoor stadiums is wearing off.

And Olympic will never be truly a full outdoor stadium. You cannot remove the arched roof over the seating area as that is an integral part of the structure.

But the center part can be removed. The floor has a drainage system of course (every structure needs that) but that will have to be upgraded.

It is complicated. This renovation will be far more extensive than BC Place.

This will be interesting what the Government decides to do but I believe there has to be some sort of tie in with at least 2 of the 3 outlined above to make it worthwhile.

[thurmas]

I still think there's a possibility Peledeau teams up with Saputo to renovate Stade Saputo for both cfl and mls as the scale of Big O is just too big even curtained off upper deck. Its only useful during cfl playoffs or special mls games when like messi comes to town. I know I have been knocked on here for this idea before but I think it has store merit as cf montreal has tons of years left on their lease and needs stade saputo to have more dates booked every year as its under utilialized.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I still think there's a possibility Peledeau teams up with Saputo to renovate Stade Saputo for both cfl and mls as the scale of Big O is just too big even curtained off upper deck. Its only useful during cfl playoffs or special mls games when like messi comes to town. I know I have been knocked on here for this idea before but I think it has store merit as cf montreal has tons of years left on their lease and needs stade saputo to have more dates booked every year as its under utilialized.

Not sure why you would be knocked as it is a realistic scenario but the question has to be asked what's in it for the Als.

What would have to be done to Saputo, aside from being winterized (one of CFM's main concerns) is for all the modern stadium revenue creating models to be upgraded/added. Party decks, corporate boxes, box seats need to be emphasized over increased seating. Unless this happens in a big way there isn't a really a good reason for the Als to leave the great location they already have.

What gets me more than anything is what little investigative reporting has gone into this and if the CFL has a new owner in Halifax. It's not rocket surgery for a reporter to ask a few questions.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by elly63

Not sure why you would be knocked as it is a realistic scenario but the question has to be asked what's in it for the Als.

What would have to be done to Saputo, aside from being winterized (one of CFM's main concerns) is for all the modern stadium revenue creating models to be upgraded/added. Party decks, corporate boxes, box seats need to be emphasized over increased seating. Unless this happens in a big way there isn't a really a good reason for the Als to leave the great location they already have.

What gets me more than anything is what little investigative reporting has gone into this and if the CFL has a new owner in Halifax. It's not rocket surgery for a reporter to ask a few questions.

Sadly with corporatized media and the skeletal state journalism is in Canada today I expect very little as its mostly kids straight out of creative communications coming out and just doing what they are told and not to rock the boat.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by elly63

What gets me more than anything is what little investigative reporting has gone into this and if the CFL has a new owner in Halifax. It's not rocket surgery for a reporter to ask a few questions.

I think the only investigative sports reporter in the country focuses on all that is wrong with the NHL and its various sexual abuse scandals.

[northernlights99]

Interesting article below about the history of fibreglass technology, that aside, using it as roof material is too problematic for Montreal winters which is why they should repair the Technical ring and just leave it as an Open air stadium as it was for its first 11 years.

If you are going to pitch the Als and Impact to return to the Stadium they surely won't want to be indoors for what are generally considered to be outdoor sports.

And what's happening with the pitch to have the MLB Marlins play summer games in Olympic ? Surely having the stadium as Open air will further that option.

Open air gives better acoustics for Concerts. I hope they will just leave it Open air, reduce the cost and speed up the process to get it back open.

What difference does it make, the stadium roof can't be relied upon between November and March anyways.

More than 1.5 inches of snow in the forecast, the stadium has to be closed anyways. What difference is there between that uncertainty and just leaving it as open air ?

Lego says he wants to return the Stadium to "its previous glory". How you define 'glory' is judgemental but I believe its a reference to its days before the retractable roof was installed.

https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/...her-challenges

and about the original roof :

https://www.sbp.de/en/project/roof-o...dium-montreal/

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by northernlights99

And what's happening with the pitch to have the MLB Marlins play summer games in Olympic ? Surely having the stadium as Open air will further that option.

Say what?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Say what?

ChatGPT finding some old articles?

Apparently it doesn't know how to punctuate either. There is no space between a word and a question mark at the end of a sentence.

Here is an example. Do you get the feeling we are being trolled?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by elly63

ChatGPT finding some old articles?

Apparently it doesn't know how to punctuate either. There is no space between a word and a question mark at the end of a sentence.

Here is an example. Do you get the feeling we are being trolled?

I don't know. Maybe he's too infatuated with TS that he didn't pay attention that it was the Rays, not Marlins, and it was to involve a new stadium in both cities, not Olympic Stadium, or that this was kiboshed a couple years ago and the Rays have since announced plans for a new stadium next to the Trop.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I don't know. Maybe he's too infatuated with TS that he didn't pay attention that it was the Rays, not Marlins, and it was to involve a new stadium in both cities, not Olympic Stadium, or that this was kiboshed a couple years ago and the Rays have since announced plans for a new stadium next to the Trop.

That and a hundred other mistakes.

[shreddog]

Interesting news if true. Took a quick scan of other QC media and it seems like this is starting to brew up in some circles. It would be sad to no longer see it on the horizon when visiting.

Montreal’s Olympic Stadium needs $1-billion in repairs. Demolition might be a better option.

The news that Lionel Messi might be coming to town has sent Montreal soccer fans scrambling to snag tickets to a match in May between the city’s MLS franchise and the Argentinian-born star’s Inter Miami
...
Hopes that the match would be moved to the 60,000-seat Olympic Stadium from the much smaller 19,600-seat Saputo Stadium where CF Montreal usually plays its home games were dashed, however, when the body that runs the Big O last month announced the venue’s indefinite closing as it undertakes “exploratory work” to determine required repairs and awaits government approval to undertake the renovation.
...
La Société de développement et de mise en valeur du Parc olympique said it planned to submit a business plan to Premier François Legault’s Coalition Avenir Québec government some time this month that would outline the work required to repair the 48-year-old stadium. The long-cursed Big O not only needs a new roof; the 500-metre concrete ring that supports the roof and sits atop the stadium’s arched concrete beams must be replaced to conform with current building codes.

“The challenge for the Olympic Stadium is to go from a negative symbol to a positive one,” Mr. Legault mused in October. That was before the latest cost estimates for the fix began circulating. La Presse last month pegged the cost of repairs at between $750-million and $1-billion. But even that projection could turn out to be optimistic.
...
Might it not be a better idea to just tear the thing down?
...
The roof soon started to tear and was permanently fixed in place in 1990 to prevent it from deteriorating any further. The original roof was replaced by a fibreglass one in 1998. It also began to tear soon after its installation. A 1999 accident that left five workers injured after ice plunged down on them through a hole in the roof has since made the stadium’s playing field unusable in the winter. As of last year, the roof had been patched in no fewer than 20,000 places.
...
Mr. Taillibert’s distinctive design still draws tourists to its east-end Montreal location. But that does not pay the bills. The stadium relied on more than $43-million in government operating and capital subsidies in the 2022-23 fiscal year. Its only other major source of private revenue is rents and parking fees paid by commercial tenants and their employees who work in offices in the tower.
...
Olympic Stadium likely can never become an attractive sports or concert venue, no matter how much is spent on it. As long as it is standing, it seems destined to remain a permanent symbol of the pitfalls of ill-conceived grandiose political schemes, albeit an oddly beautiful one to which Montrealers have become attached.

Globe and Mail

[elly63]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Olympic Stadium likely can never become an attractive sports or concert venue, no matter how much is spent on it. As long as it is standing, it seems destined to remain a permanent symbol of the pitfalls of ill-conceived grandiose political schemes, albeit an oddly beautiful one to which Montrealers have become attached.

This article doesn't really say anything, and I think the first line of the paragraph is ridiculous. Actually the first line is in direct conflict with the last line.

Let's face it, the only objection to anything about the building is the amount of money it will take to make it meet modern standards. If we were all promised they could spend 800 million and have it turn out as successfully as BC Place or not be another big financial boondoggle I think most people aside from the usual professional naysayers wouldn't object.

Most people just wanted the problem solved, permanently, fix it right or tear it down.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by elly63

Let's face it, the only objection to anything about the building is the amount of money it will take to make it meet modern standards. If we were all promised they could spend 800 million and have it turn out as successfully as BC Place or not be another big financial boondoggle I think most people aside from the usual professional naysayers wouldn't object.

Most people just wanted the problem solved, permanently, fix it right or tear it down.

The bolded would seem rather important when the Government of Quebec has just finished having a spat with teachers and nurses about salaries.

I'd wager that most don't care, government included. The CAQ just doesn't want to waste political capital on something with as poor a value prospect as Olympic Stadium.

The Pyramids are still monuments today. I'd imagine the current Government of Quebec would be quite happy to let Olympic Stadium join the Pyramids in the 'monument' category. Swifties and FIFA fans will mourn, but that too will pass.

[MalcolmTucker]

Disaggregating the financial problem is hard too. With the yearly subsidy and an $800 million dollar reno cost, the NPV 25 year is -$1.4 billion.

Instead, imagine reducing the subsidy to $5 million a year (lets say, that that is what the aquatic centre needs), and then spending a lot on either demolition and replacement or on an awesome renovation that will attract an MLB team that requires no operational subsidy.

Can spend $1.35 billion and end up neutral cost wise.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

an awesome renovation that will attract an MLB team

With that scenario, it would be an exclusive MLB stadium like the SkyDome. There would be no sharing with any rectilinear sport, those days, for the most part, are long gone (I am aware of Yankee Stadium and NYFC).

As has been pointed out, the pool and the tower must also be included in these discussions.

I don't think abandoning without demolition would be a good idea (ie the Pyramids)

It's funny how you never hear from architects or designers (who aren't in the running for a contract) what they might do, generally speaking. You would think that would be an interesting question for a reporter to ask.

[northernlights99]

Oh for crying out loud enough with TS, just look at the pic in the article, how Stupid would it look to tear down Olympic Stadium and leave that Incline tower hanging there on an angle with NO Stadium beside it ? Just try to visualize that. I cannot. The Mast tower was built to support the roof, tear down the Stadium you have to tear down the Incline tower. Plus you will have to demolish the adjacent Biodome and the Pool below the structure. You just can't have the Incline tower standing there alone. That would look even more foolish. How do you tear down the Stadium and leave the Mast tower just sitting there performing no useful function ? And may I remind the writer of this article, the Incline tower houses Desjardins bank plus other tenants, are we supposed to believe their leases will be ended ? Figure that out. They just upgraded the tower for tenants. Tearing down the stadium is more complicated then upgrading it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by northernlights99

Oh for crying out loud enough with TS, just look at the pic in the article, how Stupid would it look to tear down Olympic Stadium and leave that Incline tower hanging there on an angle with NO Stadium beside it ? Just try to visualize that. I cannot. The Mast tower was built to support the roof, tear down the Stadium you have to tear down the Incline tower. Plus you will have to demolish the adjacent Biodome and the Pool below the structure. You just can't have the Incline tower standing there alone. That would look even more foolish. How do you tear down the Stadium and leave the Mast tower just sitting there performing no useful function ? And may I remind the writer of this article, the Incline tower houses Desjardins bank plus other tenants, are we supposed to believe their leases will be ended ? Figure that out. They just upgraded the tower for tenants. Tearing down the stadium is more complicated then upgrading it.

You can of course bring the stadium down without bringing the tower, aquatic centre or biome down. There'd be a question of how much of the parking garage you'd want to keep. The stadium was built piece by piece then tensioned in place. You can of course do it in reverse.