Is it Finally Time to Reduce Income Tax Rates?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I see the province as being behind on a number of things, healthcare being but one of them. Paying down provincial debt would be another. Transit, infrastructure, housing, etc etc. Not our decision to make, anyhow. I’m sure our premier has lots of ideas, though, and I’m comfortable leaving it in his hands. FWIW, it would be nice if we could have a version of him at the federal level.

I would have hoped that at least some on the $2 billion windfall NS received would have been applied to the debt, but it was apparently all spent on other things. They could have at least thrown us a bone by indexing income tax brackets finally, and providing some modest increase to provincial pensions which have been essentially frozen for nearly 10 years.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's frankly absurd. I can recognize that my taxes go up every year, but I do not see any benefit accruing to me or those around me. Given more money to spend, govt will spend it. What they spend it on is the question, because it is often totally wasteful, going to lavish public sector union contracts, bloated bureaucracies that do very little, handouts to hot-button groups claiming they are disadvantaged, and dubious infrastructure projects that far too often are simply monuments to politicians but not wanted by the public who are paying for it, while other needs go unaddressed. Pouring more money into the bottomless pit that is healthcare without any recognition that the system as designed does not work close to well without any appetite to chase down and remove the money sinks in the system does little for the public. We need to remove the disease that is the insatiable thirst for revenue by govts from the system, and the best way to do that is by cutting taxes substantially and forcing govts to make actual hard decisions about what is important and what needs to be jettisoned.

The sad thing is, we could push towards fiscal conservatism (in theory) without austerity but that would involve cutting literal BILLIONS from the cronyism that is our political system. Unfortunately, those entrenched in the current system benefit from this so I doubt there are any calm, measured reforms that can fix it. I saw an article today "Canadians are turning against immigration. Labour economist Mikal Skuterud on how to reform the system and reverse this trend" and here I'm thinking there is no reform. The only solution is to nuke it completely and rebuild. Good luck "voting a little harder" to make the system work.

There are plenty of great minds and innovators right here in our own community that could fix a lot of our problems for about 10% of the cost of the current 'doing business' but it's near impossible to implement because of cronyism. The city or province will spend millions on consultants just for them to tell them "shits fucked yo" and then nothing changes and we're out another couple million in taxes a 1-2 years of important time needed to fix things.

[Nouvellecosse]

I think we can all appreciate efficiency and transparency in government spending. But I would absolutely not support any tax cuts until after such reforms were completed and the effects including any savings were fully determined. Otherwise it can turn into meaningless mantras like Rob Ford's "cut the gravy train" or Trump's "Drain the swamp". They basically assume that huge amounts of funding can be accessed by simply cutting waste, but base the assumption purely on (borderline religious) faith rather than actual, verified numbers. Then they're shocked and perplexed when the numbers don't work out as expected.

Ford even thought that entire new subway lines could be built without securing any source of funding just through faith that these theoretical efficiencies would be realized. Long story short, it never happened, the money wasn't there, and important infrastructure was delayed by a good decade for no reason other than him making decisions based on his personal bias rather than actual data. So my response is, show me the money from all these potential savings, then we'll talk. And I mean the actual money, not just a theory as to how/where to get it.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I think we can all appreciate efficiency and transparency in government spending. But I would absolutely not support any tax cuts until after such reforms were completed and the effects including any savings were fully determined. Otherwise it can turn into meaningless mantras like Rob Ford's "cut the gravy train" or Trump's "Drain the swamp". They basically assume that huge amounts of funding can be accessed by simply cutting waste, but base the assumption purely on (borderline religious) faith rather than actual, verified numbers. Then they're shocked and perplexed when the numbers don't work out as expected.

Ford even thought that entire new subway lines could be built without securing any source of funding just through faith that these theoretical efficiencies would be realized. Long story short, it never happened, the money wasn't there, and important infrastructure was delayed by a good decade for no reason other than him making decisions based on his personal bias rather than actual data. So my response is, show me the money from all these potential savings, then we'll talk. And I mean the actual money, not just a theory as to how/where to get it.

The problem with your wish of course is the Unions step up to the front of the line to claim their "fair share". Nurses in N.S. with a fulltime position make on average about $3,500 more that the average FAMILY Income in Nova Scotia. The average Nurses career lasts 16 years due to childrearing,Marriage or predominately Back injury. Perhaps the quality of work conditions would keep more in the Profession. I say this as the Son of N.S. Nurse that had to quit after a bad back earned on the job.

It does not help either when Politicians blow half a Billion on Union buddies without even telling their Finance ministers. (Darrel Dexter). Premier Hamm did the right thing with a 2007 Federal Windfall by crushing his own Ministers empire dreams and putting all 864 Million on the Provincial debt. Hopefully Houston will be prudent with Debt repayment and very long term Investments with any increased revenue streams.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

The problem with your wish of course is the Unions step up to the front of the line to claim their "fair share". Nurses in N.S. with a fulltime position make on average about $3,500 more that the average FAMILY Income in Nova Scotia. The average Nurses career lasts 16 years due to childrearing,Marriage or predominately Back injury. Perhaps the quality of work conditions would keep more in the Profession. I say this as the Son of N.S. Nurse that had to quit after a bad back earned on the job.

Obviously I agree that unionized people making significantly more than non-unionized people is an problem. Unfortunately when some people point out that problem, they get the solution completely backwards. They conclude that unionized people should be making less rather than the correct conclusion which is that non-unionized people should making more. But of course under capitalism, everything is framed as a supply-side problem, so driving down the wages of all working-class people is seen as an admirable goal.

[LikeCranes]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

There's a lot of important stuff that we want from both provincial and municipal governments and they all too often can't afford it. If inflation is a way that governments can raise additional tax revenue without having to officially increase taxes (and all the political baggage that comes with it) then that's great. Inflation is actually doing something useful.

Additional revenue means and does nothing if it only matches the rate of inflation.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Obviously I agree that unionized people making significantly more than non-unionized people is an problem. Unfortunately when some people point out that problem, they get the solution completely backwards. They conclude that unionized people should be making less rather than the correct conclusion which is that non-unionized people should making more. But of course under capitalism, everything is framed as a supply-side problem, so driving down the wages of all working-class people is seen as an admirable goal.

This bears repeating over and over again. It boggles the mind on how the average joe still works hard at making the rich richer and poor poorer.

[q12]

The Associate Deputy Minister of the finance Department of Nova Scotia just said the The Province of Nova Scotia brought in $4.06 Billion in personal income taxes in the 2022-2023 fiscal year, up from $3.3 Billion the year before.

This a year-over-year increase of $700 million roughly 20 per cent.

Wow.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by q12

The Associate Deputy Minister of the finance Department of Nova Scotia just said the The Province of Nova Scotia brought in $4.06 Billion in personal income taxes in the 2022-2023 fiscal year, up from $3.3 Billion the year before.

This a year-over-year increase of $700 million roughly 20 per cent.

Wow.

Going with the title of the thread, if it's not time to reduce rates, at least indexing the brackets is way past due!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Going with the title of the thread, if it's not time to reduce rates, at least indexing the brackets is way past due!

Indeed.

One of the opposition members raised that issue with the bureaucrats at the session and all the Finance people could do is obfuscate. Shameful. One of those elected to represent us in govt needs to stand up to these bean-counters. The Finance bureaucrats from the deputy head on down are all absolutely terrible for seeing beyond the end of their own self-important noses.

[q12]

The Associate Deputy Minister of the finance Department of Nova Scotia just said the The Province of Nova Scotia brought in $4.06 Billion in personal income taxes in the 2022-2023 fiscal year, up from $3.3 Billion the year before.

This is a year-over-year increase of $700 million roughly 20 per cent.

We now go LIVE to Province House for a reaction from the Government...



meanwhile... in the basement....

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Indeed.

One of the opposition members raised that issue with the bureaucrats at the session and all the Finance people could do is obfuscate. Shameful. One of those elected to represent us in govt needs to stand up to these bean-counters. The Finance bureaucrats from the deputy head on down are all absolutely terrible for seeing beyond the end of their own self-important noses.

I can imagine the Finance folks trying to build a War chest for the QE 2 replacement as that is probably the entire focus of the Governments horse power right now. And rightly so.

[Patriots]

Reducing income taxes is a must for NS. It is an investment in our future attracting talented innovators and business people and therefore increasing our overall standard of living. With our high taxes we have lost an extraordinary amount of talent. Time to reverse that trend. Government has proven to be poor stewards of our money so they need to be more limited. Less government and lower taxes. I.e. does anyone feel the government is doing a good managing our health care system? As far as previous comments on capitalism, if it wasn’t for capitalism what would we be typing on right now? Capitalism breads innovation(like the invention of the phone and lap tops we are using), advancement, competition, and ultimately creates the pleasures we enjoy in this world today. Of course companies want to maximize profits. Unskilled labor will always fetch the lowest pay and rightfully so. With technological advancements unskilled labor will become less common. If you don’t want to get paid as unskilled labor then get a skill and/or get educated.

[someone123]

I wonder how much of this will be clawed back from equalization. If you look at the equalization tables, the payments to NS are expected to rise in 2023/2024.

[HarbingerDe]

Originally Posted by Patriots

Capitalism breads innovation(like the invention of the phone and lap tops we are using), advancement, competition, and ultimately creates the pleasures we enjoy in this world today.

Virtually every identifiable technological development behind the existence of our modern computers/smartphones can be traced back to government-funded (often military) R&D projects.

The internet, satellite communication, microprocessors, all of it. It's all based on billions upon billions of dollars of publicly funded government R&D projects. None of these technologies would be anywhere near where they are today, or they wouldn't exist at all, if the development was left solely to the free market.

Capitalism does not breed innovation when there are viable short-term alternatives to innovation that will increase returns without the same massive upfront cost that comes with actual R&D and innovation.

Private corporations will often retain the patents to technologies developed through government-funded research, retaining control of the technology and marginally improving it, but paradigm shifting revolutionary technological innovation does not often come from free market competition anymore.

It's too costly to innovate, and there are much more efficient ways to extract money from consumers than fronting billions of dollars to develop new products that may or may not ever take hold in the market.

[Keith P.]

So, you’re saying that most technological innovation is due to the former Soviet Union and the threat they imposed to the free world? Okey-dokey.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So, you’re saying that most technological innovation is due to the former Soviet Union and the threat they imposed to the free world? Okey-dokey.

Seems to fit. At least as far as the internet is concerned...

Another catalyst in the formation of the Internet was the heating up of the Cold War. The Soviet Union's launch of the Sputnik satellite spurred the U.S. Defense Department to consider ways information could still be disseminated even after a nuclear attack. This eventually led to the formation of the ARPANET (Advanced Research Projects Agency Network), the network that ultimately evolved into what we now know as the Internet. ARPANET was a great success but membership was limited to certain academic and research organizations who had contracts with the Defense Department. In response to this, other networks were created to provide information sharing.

https://www.usg.edu/galileo/skills/unit0...3%20is%20considered,Protocol%20(TCP%2FIP).

[HarbingerDe]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So, you’re saying that most technological innovation is due to the former Soviet Union and the threat they imposed to the free world? Okey-dokey.

Yes, many of our modern technological advancements are a direct result of the government/military research during Cold War. You can draw whatever dubious "socialism destroyed - west is best - capitalism is amazing" conclusion you want from that, but it's beside the point.

The point was only to refute the claim that simply allowing the free market to do what it does with less regulation does not necessarily lead to innovation. In many respects capitalism actively fights innovation and technological progress when present or future profitability is jeopardized.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think if you look into it you find that a lot of technology is initially created for military purposes , etc., but it is generally adapted for commercial uses and perfected by the private sector. So it’s a little of both.

[Patriots]

I will drop the capitalism debate, but I will offer my final two cents. Anyone who denies capitalism exists to innovate is completely wrong and the list of reasons is far too long to support my comment. Of course there has been innovation through wars and other events but capitalism is innovation whether it is big pharma, industrial processes, technology, the financial system, retail marketing, etc. If you don’t innovate in business then you eventually die. You may not like the truth but it is the truth. The main point is we need more of that in Nova Scotia along with lower taxes to attract talent and industry. Big government leads to mediocrity and scary balance sheets.