Hamilton City Centre | ? | 3x30 & 24 fl | Proposal

[drpgq]

It's too bad, but with interest rates what they are not really surprising. I suppose it is better to leave it standing than demolishing it.

I kind of wonder for non-started projects, I don't think prices make sense for investors. Rents are higher in Hamilton now, but not that much higher.

[ScreamingViking]

Could be one of many "holds" in the city

Perhaps HUPEG can make IN8 an offer they can't refuse? Though I have doubts their plans will now proceed per original and ever-changing scheduling. Or maybe it gives time to re-envision what this mall can be -- the interior is very dated, but I've always thought it was a great space with potential.

Cue the folks who'll say "use it to house the homeless!"

[Innsertnamehere]

The condo market is in the sh*tter right now, unfortunately.

It's not really IN8's fault. Nobody is really managing sell much right now, at least not confidently. Emblem has iced it's launch of the third Design District tower as well.

The only projects moving through still are rental basically due to federal changes to GST charges against them and no need for presales.

Once interest rates start to drop, likely in the spring, the pre-construction market should come back to life a bit and sales should pick up again.

[SteelTown]

Looking at the current stock market, it seems like we've peaked and are heading toward a downward trajectory for interest rates. Hopefully, we've entered a new chapter.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Could be one of many "holds" in the city

Perhaps HUPEG can make IN8 an offer they can't refuse? Though I have doubts their plans will now proceed per original and ever-changing scheduling. Or maybe it gives time to re-envision what this mall can be -- the interior is very dated, but I've always thought it was a great space with potential.

Cue the folks who'll say "use it to house the homeless!"

The mall is an amazing space. Would rather try to find a way to resurrect it and have something cool for public use than to put up low-quality condos.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by BCTed

The mall is an amazing space. Would rather try to find a way to resurrect it and have something cool for public use than to put up low-quality condos.

Or a blend of the original with updates inside and along the street, and something new to replace the western half of the complex (the part that used to be Eaton's when the mall opened).

Its days as a full shopping centre are done, but I'd hope the space itself can be repurposed rather than just demolished.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

I've never seen another postmodern time capsule quite like it, the atrium could be preserved with some clever architecture. The streetscape needs heavy alterations though.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by PaperSun

Developer shut Hamilton's City Centre a year ago for 'epic' condos. That plan's on hold indefinitely

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...date-1.7056869

Cant say I didn't see this coming.

Well, on the plus side, they did state they will be refining their design.. let's hope I'm not dead by the time they finish this project lol..

also I would have to agree with the posts - the atrium is amazing, and really nothing exists in the city like it anymore - it just lets in so much natural light - it's beautiful - it reminds me of that one building in toronto near the train station wher you walk in and its all atrium space and you have that one stone back facade that's been incorporated into it indoors - I would love to see that preserved and the rest sorta encapsulating it and building around it. Having just condos in the heart there , well it feels like a waste attached to jackson. That and I am sure the prices will be astronomical.
I fear though that without any sort of maintenance any hopes of saving it will be as remote as saving the tivoli theatre becomes year by year.

I am 100% convinced many people are sitting on these "heritage" lots so that they will eventually collapse on their own and they can build something entirely modern - the buildings in the gore, the church, the tivoli.. noone want to have to maintain old architecture it seems. Boring boxes for everyone lol.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

also I would have to agree with the posts - the atrium is amazing, and really nothing exists in the city like it anymore - it just lets in so much natural light - it's beautiful - it reminds me of that one building in toronto near the train station wher you walk in and its all atrium space and you have that one stone back facade that's been incorporated into it indoors - I would love to see that preserved and the rest sorta encapsulating it and building around it. Having just condos in the heart there , well it feels like a waste attached to jackson. That and I am sure the prices will be astronomical.
I fear though that without any sort of maintenance any hopes of saving it will be as remote as saving the tivoli theatre becomes year by year.

Let's just find a way to preserve the dang mall/atrium and re-open the sucker. The plan for condos has always seemed pretty suspect and I doubt that even a significant reduction in interest rates would necessarily kickstart it back up. Even if this gets built, it seems fairly low quality. And even if it does get built and is decent quality, who cares? The city needs something more than condos in its downtown anyway... shopping, entertainment, food, commercial, a place to gather, a museum, some kind of destination, something.

[Berklon]

The problem is that who is going to want to invest in the place essentially leaving it intact - even if they repurpose it? It doesn't work as an all-out mall. A proper sized grocery store would be good - but that still leaves a ton of unused space. I don't see what it can be used for that doesn't fail. We can want whatever we want, but someone has to foot the bill and deal with the losses.

I think the best we can hope for is tearing it down and putting the already intended condo development, but with retail space for a real grocery store, a bunch of shops and other businesses (ie. dentist), etc. taking up a substantial amount of space at ground level.
The retailers will have built-in support of the residents while they also try to pull in outside customers. I think the only way this works is mixed-use.

[Innsertnamehere]

This proposal is going to still happen to be clear - IN8 is a well funded developer building multiple 50+ storey buildings in Kitchener right now and has a record of building tens of thousands of apartment units.

It’s just been delayed by a year or so. I imagine they’ll launch as soon as the condo market picks up again, likely next year as interest rates start to drop.

[Chronamut]

I honestly don't think there will EVER be a "real' grocery store in the downtown core ESP here, not with nations and the farmers market being RIGHT THERE - what would be the point of frequenting the farmers market if there was a grocery store right beside it - it would be famers market suicide, destroying something that's existed and worked for over 200 years.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

I honestly don't think there will EVER be a "real' grocery store in the downtown core ESP here, not with nations and the farmers market being RIGHT THERE - what would be the point of frequenting the farmers market if there was a grocery store right beside it - it would be famers market suicide, destroying something that's existed and worked for over 200 years.

The farmers market is not a grocery store. Good luck buying your weekly groceries there. It's basically a bunch of boutique shops, it's more of a novelty, a tourist attraction. A large grocery store would definitely be viable downtown, at least once all these condo towers go up and the population explodes in the next five years.

[Berklon]

Yea, even the best farmers markets don't offer what a grocery store offers. They're two different things.
There's a small overlap between the two.

[ScreamingViking]

Can it even be called a "farmers' market"? I haven't been in a while, but I seem to recall reading that the stall-holders buy their products wholesale or from middlemen.

Its fortunes should improve immediately once more people are living in the surrounding blocks. Same for Nations Fresh, though every time I've been in there it's been busy. There may be a market for another grocery store, even if smaller in size... though it would also be nice to see more small "green grocers" open up. I know of a couple on James between Mulberry and Robert and we shopped at one during the pandemic... the owners barely spoke English but were so friendly, and their produce was great (they even had a nice array of dry and canned goods) -- we were happy to give them business.

[King&James]

I know we are considering that there are a number of developments underway that in theory should drive another grocer to downtown, but looking to the Durand neighbourhood to see all that density and basically no grocery store, save the Fortinos at Dundurn (and that one is pretty rough). I do think Nations will continue to do well and they are easily positioned to serve the north west and east central core.

[atnor]

I stopped going to the farmers market after pokeh closed up.

[Bubba9000]

Originally Posted by King&James

I know we are considering that there are a number of developments underway that in theory should drive another grocer to downtown, but looking to the Durand neighbourhood to see all that density and basically no grocery store, save the Fortinos at Dundurn (and that one is pretty rough). I do think Nations will continue to do well and they are easily positioned to serve the north west and east central core.

I heard tell of a full service grocery store locating on the ground floor of the new Core Urban build on James S. Expected to be 'high end' and obviously not full size like the typical major chains. Maybe like a Pusateri's or Rabba model. There are examples out there of scaled down supermarkets in smaller settings.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Bubba9000

I heard tell of a full service grocery store locating on the ground floor of the new Core Urban build on James S. Expected to be 'high end' and obviously not full size like the typical major chains. Maybe like a Pusateri's or Rabba model. There are examples out there of scaled down supermarkets in smaller settings.

The white one by augusta? Well at least that one has a parking lot behind it..

[mikevbar1]

I'm not so sure the atrium is worth the effort of preserving here. I get why people want to retain part of this site, but this isn't exactly the old city hall being torn down. What I would be in favour of is re-incorporating architectural elements of the building, including material. But I fear some things will simply have to be re-engineered if we want to actually make this a better-used space than the mall was, and in my books that means a few things.

1. You'd basically have to create a budget 'The Well' as an open-air mall with a canopy roof. An indoor mall did not and will not work.

2. That means your open spaces will be alot more 'open' than they were/are in the mall, and the atrium will need to literally be "re-scaled" to make sense. This is the key issue; as an architectural component, it needs to work architecturally, and we are changing this site in a very dramatic way.

3. Likewise for the elevator, which could be tastefully redone if not updated.

Really I think there's an architect out there that could probably figure out what the best way to carry forward the mall into the new design is. That architect isn't me, but I'm not sold that is through strict preservation of the structure.