Hamilton's B-Line LRT construction

[ScreamingViking]

The economics of the business case for this alteration in route will take into account not just impacts to the LRT travel time and costs, but also those of other modes (I'd think likely to be largely related to auto travel in this case). It will also account for the demand side (i.e., passenger trips by mode).

A 2-way Main St. is itself a huge change in the transportation network. And what will be assumed for King? Will it also become 2-way between Paradise and Dundurn? Modifying 403 ramps may not just affect the way Main interacts with the freeway.

Perhaps the updated design will include new estimates showing how the net benefit changes under these very different assumptions.

[mikevbar1]

I think its worth remembering council really liked the design. If it's truly changed for the better on the whole, then this might be a small concession we have to make. Time will tell of course, but perhaps the cost to reconstruct the bridge is exceedingly high, or they got some kind of interest from Dundurn Plaza as a precedent to redevelopment.

[akiraredacted]

It seems there is a virtual update meeting on Nov. 30th from 6:30 to 8:00 pm EST.

via @hamiltonlrt on Instagram

[TheHonestMaple]

It would be nice if they still built the Frid Street extension. It's weird that this 'innovation' district is split into two areas. Maybe the provincial funding for the maintenance yard includes that.

Also, yes there is a virtual event next week. I guess they plan on revealing the updated design.

[akiraredacted]

Here's what I've gathered from the Hamilton LRT online 'Open House' Meeting:

- The community centre is intended to open in the Royal Connaught early in 2024, supposedly they're putting the final touches on the space.
- The LRVs will be selected during Package 2 of the construction process.
- Signal priority is a top priority and will be maintained even with the recently changed alignment at King/Main and Dundurn.
- There will be more renderings in January.

Speaking of renderings, 2 were shared.

Queen Station:


and Wellington Station:

[TheHonestMaple]

What it looks like today.

[SteelTown]

No heated shelters? Is there even a shelter from the winds?

[Innsertnamehere]

No other LRT in Ontario has heated shelters, IIRC.

[Berklon]

I don't expect the shelters to be heated, but small "walls" on the ends would give it a more enclosed space to help further protect from the elements. Although, that gives less room for people to move on the platform and could be more dangerous. Assuming the shelters shown aren't just placeholders and are subject to change.

In any case, if the LRT runs frequent enough (can't remember what they said it would be), then it's not that big a deal as you won't be waiting long anyway.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by akiraredacted

Here's what I've gathered from the Hamilton LRT online 'Open House' Meeting:

- The community centre is intended to open in the Royal Connaught early in 2024, supposedly they're putting the final touches on the space.
- The LRVs will be selected during Package 2 of the construction process.
- Signal priority is a top priority and will be maintained even with the recently changed alignment at King/Main and Dundurn.
- There will be more renderings in January.

What's this part?

[LikeHamilton]

The problem with heated partial or fully enclosed shelters is that the homeless would most likely move in. And I would not blame them.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by jonny24

What's this part?

Community office used for outreach.

Metrolinx has been operating one for the Crosstown on Eglinton West for over a decade now:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6954611,...6thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

No other LRT in Ontario has heated shelters, IIRC.

KW's ION has them at the important stations - the termini, uptown, downtown, etc. Despite Kitchener's homeless problems they haven't taken up residency, though it's not to the same level as ours.

[lachlanholmes]

A quick look at the ION stations shows that all but two of them have at least a glass enclosed waiting area that are a bit larger than those used at bus stops.

Even if they're not heated, wind alone makes a huge difference in temperature, particularly in the winter, so having something that properly blocks it is really critical to rider experience — especially if the headways end up being longer than the current B-Line bus headways. (I can't remember how long the headways are planned to be on the LRT; does anyone know?)

I also had a look to see how many of the current B-Line bus stops have glass enclosed shelters — out of 34 stops, 27 have full shelters, 6 have a half shelter, and 1 has nothing (Main at Queen, if you were wondering). In the winter, it's going to be considerably nastier to wait for the LRT if they don't build shelters on the platforms.

[SteelTown]

City of Hamilton waiting on Metrolinx for LRT developments: mayor
https://www.chch.com/city-of-hamilton-waiting-on-metrolinx-for-lrt-developments-mayor/

Hamilton Mayor Andrea Horwath says the city is waiting on Metrolinx to begin construction for the long-anticipated LRT system.

The mayor says that more delays are expected before the project comes to fruition.

According to Horwath, Metrolinx has yet to confirm a contractor for the LRT project, which is the source of some of the current delays and the city is now waiting on the agency to move forward with the project.

When asked if the delays were in part caused by the city’s move to convert Main Street to two-way traffic, Horwath affirmed that the two projects are independent of each other and the street conversion has no effect on the timeline of the LRT.

Collaboration between the chosen contractor and the city will be necessary to ensure cohesion, but the mayor says that timelines are not dependent on one another.

“They need to get moving,” says Horwath. “They just need to get moving and I continue to urge them to do so.”

Design changes have also pushed back expected timelines, according to Horwath.

These new plans had Metrolinx deserting its original plans to build a bridge dedicated solely to train traffic across Highway 403 and reallocating time and resources to the reconstruction of the Main Street West vehicle bridge.

The provincial agency says that the redesign was prompted by the city’s commitment to convert Main Street from a one-way to a two-way roadway through the downtown core.

The proposed refinement plans will see the reconstruction of the Main Street bridge, along with the reconstruction of both ramps of Highway 403 and a full replacement of Frid Street.

Horwath says some preliminary work has begun, though it may still be some time before residents see the work that will see the LRT finally come to fruition.

[SteelTown]

A contracted operator, not the city, should run Hamilton's LRT: staff report
City staff say a third-party should start out running light rail transit in the city. The city's transit union and transit advocates, argue private operation would be a “disaster.”

https://www.thespec.com/news/council/a-c...30920f4-1631-5a50-b53b-1aa84f8deba1.html

A city report recommends a contractor run a light rail transit line in Hamilton for at least 10 years — but also suggests Hamilton request the right to “opt-in” and take over operations of the $3.4-billion LRT thereafter.

That recommendation will go to Hamilton’s LRT council subcommittee next Monday — alongside expected objections from the city’s transit union and a coalition of supporters who argue all aspects of public transit operation should remain in public hands.

[Beedok]

Why would you give it to a third party? It’s part of the municipal transit system, the operation should be integrated. Not to mention a private third party is going to want to extract profit out of it, which is either money that should be invested back in the rest of the transit system or should be saved by riders.
If the private company were paying to build it then maybe, but this is government built, it should be in the hands of the people and government run.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Why would you give it to a third party? It’s part of the municipal transit system, the operation should be integrated. Not to mention a private third party is going to want to extract profit out of it, which is either money that should be invested back in the rest of the transit system or should be saved by riders.
If the private company were paying to build it then maybe, but this is government built, it should be in the hands of the people and government run.

I'm sure they've run the numbers and came to the conclusion that the public union would drive costs up.

[ScreamingViking]

Local transit systems already integrate many of their services with a private operator (GO Transit)

I think there's nothing stopping a private operator from subcontracting the HSR if that makes sense financially. Profit is a big motivator but there are also many unknowns, so I can see how staff are trying to minimize risk to the city. Maybe the "right" to opt-in should be available sooner, but this is an entirely different mode of transit to what the union currently supports in Hamilton, so there's no guarantee the HSR can do it any better or without growing pains.

If anything, a successful LRT would mean more "business" for the HSR, which will be good for union members. Hopefully independent minds look at the realities of the options and leave the politics out of it. It's a faint hope.

[SFUVancouver]

The only logical way a private operator should be considered is if the entire project delivery is structured around a design-co-finance-build-operate-maintain P3 model (i.e. the Canada Line) with the many lessons learned from that project incorporate into the contract.

To be clear, you don't add a profit-seeking partner to public transit without a really good reason.

Not having experience running a train (a bit rich for a system with 'railway' in its name, incidentally) is not a good enough reason to do a P3.

Not knowing how to build one could be a good reason, but, fortunately, Hamilton isn't building the thing. Metrolinx is. And they've done this before, so no P3 is needed.

A major funding shortfall is a good reason, and the City sure couldn't afford this on its own dime, but the Province is picking up the tab, so no P3 is needed.