General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[combusean]

Nobody realized it at the time but Marina Heights' subgrade parking garages blasted past the biggest parking garage in Arizona. Marina Heights' 300 Building's above-grade garage was also more or less tied for 2nd place with the previous winner, the Convention Center East Garage (AKA the Garage Majal) at around 2,800 spaces.

https://ctsaz.com/projects/marina-heights-state-farm-development-tempe-az/

Parking Garage: Below Grade
2-Levels, 19 Acres
1,200,000 SF
3,306 Car Capacity

Does anyone know if Marina Heights is actually using their parking or traffic capacity in 2023?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

Nobody realized it at the time but Marina Heights' subgrade parking garages blasted past the biggest parking garage in Arizona. Marina Heights' 300 Building's above-grade garage was also more or less tied for 2nd place with the previous winner, the Convention Center East Garage (AKA the Garage Majal) at around 2,800 spaces.

https://ctsaz.com/projects/marina-heights-state-farm-development-tempe-az/



Does anyone know if Marina Heights is actually using their parking or traffic capacity in 2023?

It’s not at capacity, certainly not after Covid and State Farm never fully used that space anyway started subleasing it long before they ever filled it up. When I worked there a decade ago the parking garage was unbelievably enormous, especially the first few months we were the first department in and the two level garage floors underneath the whole site was cavernous. And it’s connected to the two parking podiums essentially making it one giant parking complex.

I think they intended to sell Parking for events and students with the stadium across the street I have no idea if they do that now

[Obadno]

The Desalination plant was already a long shot, but the idea that we will have pipelines from the Missouri or Mississippi river for water is beyond asinine.

Ignoring the elevation changes, the distance alone makes this an idiotic notion.

https://azbex.com/water/wifa-pursuing-new-water-importation-options/

Arizona’s Water Infrastructure Finance Authority has dropped a plan to work with an Israeli firm on building a $5.5B desalination plant on Mexico’s Sea of Cortez.

Under the plan, IDE Technologies would have built a desalination plant on the Puerto Peñasco coast and then delivered water via a 200-mile-long pipeline into the Central Arizona Project canal system.

The WIFA board decided last December to start work on creating a formal agreement with IDE Technologies. That decision faced a wide array of criticism, as many felt the decision was rushed and not subject to sufficient public scrutiny. There was also significant opposition to potential environmental impacts and the project costs.

WIFA will now solicit competitive bids for a company or group to create a water importation project for the state. A desalination plant remains one option, but it is not a requirement.

The agency will now seek bids early next year for water importation and augmentation projects. Among the possible projects are a desalination plant and pipelines from either the Mississippi or Missouri rivers. Other options could also be considered.

WIFA needs formal approval of a new set of guidelines for judging and choosing projects. Those guidelines are currently awaiting review from the Governor’s Office.

WIFA Executive Director Chuck Podolak said the agency wants to develop at least one importation project and to do so through a competitive and open process.

I wonder how many six figure salaries are being paid to "study" these "options" that have no chance of occurring.

[YourBuddy]

It’s amazing that instead of having proper water management for these corporate farms we are supposed to build this water infrastructure instead.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by YourBuddy

It’s amazing that instead of having proper water management for these corporate farms we are supposed to build this water infrastructure instead.

Big agg ureses 75% of our water but YOU NEED TO KILL YOUR .1 acre GRASS

It makes me so angry.

[combusean]

The Colorado has proven that it doesn't have the long term reliability it once did. The state can't depend on the Salt River and groundwater alone. What agriculture uses is a red herring.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

The Colorado has proven that it doesn't have the long term reliability it once did. The state can't depend on the Salt River and groundwater alone. What agriculture uses is a red herring.

No it isn't. its 75% of the water usage in the state. Throwing out literally dumb ideas like pipe in water from Nebraska is the red herring.

If that was feasible, we should build a pipeline to Alberta and North Dakota and get $0.50 gas.

[YourBuddy]

I’d like to understand how anyone could possibly think agricultural water use is a red herring. As of 2021 only 8% of farmers used drip irrigation. Agriculture in Arizona alone uses roughly 5 million acre-feet per year. Switching to drip irrigation alone would save almost twice the amount of indoor and outdoor water use in this state every year and drip irrigation isn’t even the most effective water conservation measure farms could take.

2 million acre-feet of savings per year would be equal to over 35 Carlsbad sized desal plants. I’d rather the costs of growing food with AZ water fall on all the consumers instead of Arizona residents subsidizing the industry through increased water rates that AG companies almost surely won’t be participating in with desal.

[MiEncanto]

This is a super complex issue but there's a lot of sympathy for AG who often buy land with water rights where those rights are partially baked into the cost of the land. So they feel entitled to using it. And of course, if they aren't paying for the water at a true market rate, they are "overusing" it from a market demand perspective.

I think we need to slowly transfer to a system where users pay for water based on what it is worth, which will mean we use less as AG finds less water-intensive uses. Then we'll find out what the Ag market will bear.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

This is a super complex issue but there's a lot of sympathy for AG who often buy land with water rights where those rights are partially baked into the cost of the land. So they feel entitled to using it. And of course, if they aren't paying for the water at a true market rate, they are "overusing" it from a market demand perspective.

I think we need to slowly transfer to a system where users pay for water based on what it is worth, which will mean we use less as AG finds less water-intensive uses. Then we'll find out what the Ag market will bear.

Honest question, if we reduce AG in the southwest where does the country go for it's winter vegetable supply? Are there realistic alternatives?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by locolife

Honest question, if we reduce AG in the southwest where does the country go for it's winter vegetable supply? Are there realistic alternatives?

You don’t need to fully abandon the practice to make it more efficient. Furthermore there are plenty of options they are just more expensive. There was a time not long ago where you simply could not get things at certain times of year.

I don’t think we need to suffer in a worse urban heat island and have rock yards because Angie in Kenosha wants her tangerines all year for dirt cheap

[YourBuddy]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

This is a super complex issue but there's a lot of sympathy for AG who often buy land with water rights where those rights are partially baked into the cost of the land. So they feel entitled to using it. And of course, if they aren't paying for the water at a true market rate, they are "overusing" it from a market demand perspective.

I think we need to slowly transfer to a system where users pay for water based on what it is worth, which will mean we use less as AG finds less water-intensive uses. Then we'll find out what the Ag market will bear.

This isn’t realistic though. We need protections as consumers from the drastic price increases AG would need to pay for them to find less water intensive uses. When corporations from around the world come to Arizona to use water to grow water intensive crops to then ship around the world because it is cheaper than desal then you have a serious problem. CAP users are charged at roughly $150 per acre-foot of water, with AG being charged even less. The Carlsbad desal plant charges roughly $2700.

The question should be how much more do countries like Saudi Arabia need to pay to close the gap on the difference in cost from AZ water + shipping versus expanding their desal operations to grow their own crops. This isn’t solely a Saudi Arabia problem, because any corporation will be weighing these same costs. An how much more are you willing to pay for water and what do you do when it reaches the breaking point for all AZ when they can’t afford the price for water before a price correction.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by Obadno

You don’t need to fully abandon the practice to make it more efficient. Furthermore there are plenty of options they are just more expensive. There was a time not long ago where you simply could not get things at certain times of year.

I don’t think we need to suffer in a worse urban heat island and have rock yards because Angie in Kenosha wants her tangerines all year for dirt cheap

Correct. Switching from grass to rocks in your front yard is not materially changing our water demand. And it hurts children's access to outdoor play, among other consequences.

Nothing in water policy is going to dramatically change overnight. These things are measured in decades, not days. Everyone needs to take a deep breath.

A head of winter lettuce might cost $1.30 instead of a $1 in the future but I don't think we're headed for a future where there is dramatically less Ag in AZ than today. AZ is a big place with lots of water. We arguably have fewer problems than SoCal.

We use less water today than we did 50 years ago with 6 million more residents. Historically we didn't have to do much conserving because we didn't need to. And it's crazy complicated with a million users including tribes with water rights that makes it a huge boulder to push uphill to make even small changes. But I'm not convinced we're in any material near-term danger nor do I think Ag needs to be revolutionized overnight.

Some easy things we can do in the near term: improve our understanding of our AMAs. ADWR has an ancient measurement tool trying to measure 100 years of water supply that make very crude assumptions, do not account for replenishment, and are largely a WAG (wild ass guess). We can do better there. I'm not opposed to having more AMAs in the state but they need to be more accurate and account for all the inputs and outputs. What's happening to residential growth in Buckeye and QC is horrendous- and to think it doesn't even impact commercial? What nonsense.

Then we need to figure out how to incentivize water-intensive Ag to less water intensive products. And if it means subsidizing them so they can switch away from flood irrigation, perhaps that makes sense.

[PHX31]

This post is purely speculative and for general discussion purposes...

What is the likelihood that Mat Ishbia might move the headquarters of United Wholesale Mortgage to downtown Phoenix and build a new tower for it?

He's shown that he's not at all against spending money and is highly aggressive as the Suns new owner. Not only that, but he seems to be good about respecting and entrenching himself into the culture of the Suns and possibly the City as a whole. He (the Suns) already own some vacant land near the stadium, but with how he spends money, he could buy and build somewhere else downtown with less of a height restriction even.

I would imagine he's pretty loyal to the state of Michigan and everything he's got going on back there... but maybe there is a slim chance in the future of moving everything to Phoenix?

[Buckeye Native 001]

Speculative as well, but why build a new tower when there's a perfectly empty one (Chase/Valley Center) that is, if I remember right, still in limbo regarding development?

[combusean]

I don't think there's a possibility of that given how much they've both invested in their current headquarters and how much they appreciate their employees where it's cheaper for them to live anyways. They're probably the only game in Pontiac for the scale of what they're doing whereas there are limitless opportunities for somebody in the mortgage business in the Phoenix area so they'd have to make it extra worthwhile to retain their employees.

Chase's design is utterly obsolete for any sort of new largescale office anyways. I mean, look at their current building -- relatively new, generously parked, lowrise, very large floorplates which makes a lot of sense for the sort of packed open offices that are commonplace nowadays. The building likely has a decently long service life still.

[BA744PHX]

Originally Posted by PHX31

This post is purely speculative and for general discussion purposes...

What is the likelihood that Mat Ishbia might move the headquarters of United Wholesale Mortgage to downtown Phoenix and build a new tower for it?

He's shown that he's not at all against spending money and is highly aggressive as the Suns new owner. Not only that, but he seems to be good about respecting and entrenching himself into the culture of the Suns and possibly the City as a whole. He (the Suns) already own some vacant land near the stadium, but with how he spends money, he could buy and build somewhere else downtown with less of a height restriction even.

I would imagine he's pretty loyal to the state of Michigan and everything he's got going on back there... but maybe there is a slim chance in the future of moving everything to Phoenix?

His company isn’t doing so good, from 2021-2022 his company dropped revenue from 2.9 billion to 2.4 billion and its 2023 revenue by year is waited at 2.0 billion. I would be more worried about the ownership of the Suns & Mercury if this trend continues

https://investors.uwm.com/news-and-event...ter--Full-Year-2022-Results/default.aspx

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UWMC/uwm-holdings/income-statement?freq=A

[ASU Diablo]

Another $2B investment into the economy!

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2023/11/30/amkor-peoria-semiconductor-phoenix.html

[jmcmahon]

Despite a slowdown, Phoenix still leads the nation in new apartment construction.
https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...ops-nation-in-new-multifamily-units.html

Why then aren't there any new tallests? The old VNB tower at 483' is still the city's tallest and it remains empty, LOL.

[combusean]

Phoenix will get a new tallest when something that gets built isn't built to be sold like virtually everything else besides the current tallest buildings in the city.