Calgary International Airport III

[rdaner]

Hi: I hope that this is the right thread. If Calgary gets a rail link to the airport to downtown, where would the downtown station be? Does Calgary have a Via station? Also if commuter rail is introduced, would it converge on the same central station? Thanks!

[Tobuz]

Slim pickings for YYC-KEF

Interestingly ... for the service offered on board these new flights ... WestJet does not treat these flights as Europe/TATL. They get a N/America level of service -- significantly less than what's offered on TATL flights. (Apparently that final little stretch from Iceland to the U.K. makes all the difference in making it count as "TATL"??)

To compare:

737 flights from YHZ/YYT to London:
Economy gets a "complimentary light meal", Premium gets "a Canadian inspired hot meal and a light snack"

737 flights from YYC to KEF:
In Economy, a "complimentary snack and non-alcoholic beverage will be provided" (aka a cookie or a tiny bag of pretzels), Premium gets a "light meal or light snack service".

WestJet shows flight time from YYT-LGW is 5 h 15 min. They show YYC-KEF to be 6 h 30 min.

So why does this new long haul flight from Calgary get shortchanged in both cabins?

Source: https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flight-guide

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Slim pickings for YYC-KEF

Interestingly ... for the service offered on board these new flights ... WestJet does not treat these flights as Europe/TATL. They get a N/America level of service -- significantly less than what's offered on TATL flights. (Apparently that final little stretch from Iceland to the U.K. makes all the difference in making it count as "TATL"??)

To compare:

737 flights from YHZ/YYT to London:
Economy gets a "complimentary light meal", Premium gets "a Canadian inspired hot meal and a light snack"

737 flights from YYC to KEF:
In Economy, a "complimentary snack and non-alcoholic beverage will be provided" (aka a cookie or a tiny bag of pretzels), Premium gets a "light meal or light snack service".

WestJet shows flight time from YYT-LGW is 5 h 15 min. They show YYC-KEF to be 6 h 30 min.

So why does this new long haul flight from Calgary get shortchanged in both cabins?

Source: https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flight-guide

Because they know Iceland will be holiday travelers and price will be more important than service. london will always be compared to more premium competion and a chance to go after some business travelers.

This is no different from Calgary - Hawaii which is similar flight time.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Because they know Iceland will be holiday travelers and price will be more important than service. london will always be compared to more premium competion and a chance to go after some business travelers.

This is no different from Calgary - Hawaii which is similar flight time.

So you’re saying that St John’s NF - Gatwick is a premium, more business-focused route that warrants a significantly higher level of in-flight service … on a shorter flight?

And that they’re cheaping out on the YYC-KEF route simply because they can get away with it (but presumably they can’t get away with it on LGW routes from the Maritimea?)

It seems very odd that some 737 TATL flights get full service while others don’t. Big discrepancy. I would have thought that showing some consistency in service offering on similar routes would have factored in to how WS determines in-flight service.

[People_talking]

Originally Posted by rdaner

Hi: I hope that this is the right thread. If Calgary gets a rail link to the airport to downtown, where would the downtown station be? Does Calgary have a Via station? Also if commuter rail is introduced, would it converge on the same central station? Thanks!

The current proposed rail link has the LRT spurring from the future Green Line and the Blue line to meet at the airport terminal, so as it is there isn't a downtown station since both LRT line will run through the core.

Calgary doesn't have a VIA Rail station, there used to be a station Downtown where the Calgary Tower/ Palliser Parkade now is, you can still see the loading platforms on Google Earth there.

There isn't a plan for commuter rail at the moment, but if there is a central downtown station would likely be built to serve the commuter rail, future Banff Rail connection, and the Calgary-Edmonton rail line. this would be somewhere around the Calgary Tower, either under the parkade or somewhere along the unused lots next to the train tracks downtown.

[rdaner]

Originally Posted by People_talking

The current proposed rail link has the LRT spurring from the future Green Line and the Blue line to meet at the airport terminal, so as it is there isn't a downtown station since both LRT line will run through the core.

Calgary doesn't have a VIA Rail station, there used to be a station Downtown where the Calgary Tower/ Palliser Parkade now is, you can still see the loading platforms on Google Earth there.

There isn't a plan for commuter rail at the moment, but if there is a central downtown station would likely be built to serve the commuter rail, future Banff Rail connection, and the Calgary-Edmonton rail line. this would be somewhere around the Calgary Tower, either under the parkade or somewhere along the unused lots next to the train tracks downtown.

Thanks for the great response. Although i did read very recently that a commuter service was being looked at for Calgary out to Airdrie.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

WestJet shows flight time from YYT-LGW is 5 h 15 min. They show YYC-KEF to be 6 h 30 min.

So why does this new long haul flight from Calgary get shortchanged in both cabins?

Honestly at this point I would support legislation that any flight over a certain duration must provide a basic complimentary light meal. Doesn't have to be fancy with a bunch of courses, but not feeding people on these 6-7 hour flights to Iceland, Costa Rica, Jamaica etc. seems almost criminal.

MBJ-YEG is 7hrs 12min block time FFS

[Tobuz]

Given all of the cutbacks to their on board product, inconsistencies in service offering, and things like no food on KEF flights ... it seems that WestJet has left out the "premium" part of their new strategy to transform into a "premium leisure" carrier.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Honestly at this point I would support legislation that any flight over a certain duration must provide a basic complimentary light meal. Doesn't have to be fancy with a bunch of courses, but not feeding people on these 6-7 hour flights to Iceland, Costa Rica, Jamaica etc. seems almost criminal.

MBJ-YEG is 7hrs 12min block time FFS

Well to be fair, there are hot and cold food items to purchase so for anyone to say “there is no food” on these flights is a stretch. But what dollar amount would be considered acceptable to be added to the ticket price to have a complimentary meal served on flights of the length you mention above?

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Given all of the cutbacks to their on board product, inconsistencies in service offering, and things like no food on KEF flights ... it seems that WestJet has left out the "premium" part of their new strategy to transform into a "premium leisure" carrier.

What does the competition offer on similar flights? Does IcelandAir offer hot food on its flights to YVR or SEA? Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights? I would say food for purchase would be common

[hollywoodcory]

October stats are in. Looks like YYC is on track to surpass its 2019 levels

Domestic: 1,142,144 +9.7% [2019 = 1,046,834]
Transborder: 342,218 +33.3% [2019 = 289,301]
International: 167,773 +39.9% [2019 = 117,017]

October Total: 1,634,135 +16.4% [2019 total = 1,453,152]

2023 YTD: 15,737,861 +31.23%

US/International continue to see the largest increases compared to 2019.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by msmariner

What does the competition offer on similar flights? Does IcelandAir offer hot food on its flights to YVR or SEA? Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights? I would say food for purchase would be common

IcelandAir does not offer food as part of the price, snacks and meals are to be purchased. Coffee/Water/Soft drinks are included.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

But what dollar amount would be considered acceptable to be added to the ticket price to have a complimentary meal served on flights of the length you mention above?

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

IcelandAir does not offer food as part of the price, snacks and meals are to be purchased.

Originally Posted by msmariner

Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights?

As mentioned above, WestJet offers meals in both cabins on YYT-LGW ... which is 5h 15min. That's the comparison. Meanwhile, on YYC-KEF, they offer a cookie/pretzels in Economy and a "light meal or light snack" in Premium. There's the point of comparison, and the huge discrepancy. No need to do the 'whattabout airline X' comparison.

As for the comparisons to AC, FI and other airlines ... it's interesting that when WS doesn't align with the service levels of another airline, some will jump in quickly to say "but they simply can't be like airline X, because they need to differentiate and they're doomed to failure if they act like their competitor!". But when WS matches another airline's service level, people will equally jump in to argue "of course, the fact that WestJet's competitor does something proves that's exactly the right service level for WestJet to offer".

As a customer, I really have no idea who WestJet is any longer. Are they an LCC? A ULCC? A mainstream carrier partnered with a massive premium carrier (i.e. DL) feeding both business and leisure traffic into their hubs? Or a leisure carrier focused on the 'premium leisure' segment?? They seem to go by all of these contradictory identities -- and different definitions of WestJet get pulled out opportunistically to explain why they do or don't do some things. Onboard service excludes something? Why, that's because their new strategy is to be a ULCC operating on leisure routes and WestJet customers care only about cheap price! Onboard service includes something? Why, that's because they're a premium leisure carrier operating routes with high consumer expectations! I get whiplash trying to figure out which version of WestJet operates on which route at which time of day, and struggle to figure out what I'll receive as a customer.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

As mentioned above, WestJet offers meals in both cabins on YYT-LGW ... which is 5h 15min. That's the comparison. Meanwhile, on YYC-KEF, they offer a cookie/pretzels in Economy and a "light meal or light snack" in Premium. There's the point of comparison, and the huge discrepancy. No need to do the 'whattabout airline X' comparison.

As for the comparisons to AC, FI and other airlines ... it's interesting that when WS doesn't align with the service levels of another airline, some will jump in quickly to say "but they simply can't be like airline X, because they need to differentiate and they're doomed to failure if they act like their competitor!". But when WS matches another airline's service level, people will equally jump in to argue "of course, the fact that WestJet's competitor does something proves that's exactly the right service level for WestJet to offer".

As a customer, I really have no idea who WestJet is any longer. Are they an LCC? A ULCC? A mainstream carrier partnered with a massive premium carrier (i.e. DL) feeding both business and leisure traffic into their hubs? Or a leisure carrier focused on the 'premium leisure' segment?? They seem to go by all of these contradictory identities -- and different definitions of WestJet get pulled out opportunistically to explain why they do or don't do some things. Onboard service excludes something? Why, that's because their new strategy is to be a ULCC operating on leisure routes and WestJet customers care only about cheap price! Onboard service includes something? Why, that's because they're a premium leisure carrier operating routes with high consumer expectations! I get whiplash trying to figure out which version of WestJet operates on which route at which time of day, and struggle to figure out what I'll receive as a customer.

Its not hard to figure out what level of service you get in terms of food. You get nothing unless you go to Continental Europe or Asia. That is it. That also isn't new.

KEF is being treated like the Caribbean, Hawaii, Costa Rica, all which have similar flight lengths. Costa Rica flight is over 8 hours and there is no free meal. Hasn't been since it was launched.

Not sure why this is confusing, of all the things WestJet has done recently, this one is actually consistent with what they have always done.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Its not hard to figure out what level of service you get in terms of food. You get nothing unless you go to Continental Europe or Asia. That is it. That also isn't new.

…

Not sure why this is confusing...

Well, let’s see. First of all, the UK is not in Continental Europe.

They’re an island nation, considered to be part of Europe — but not Continental Europe.

The other island nation that’s also considered to be part of Europe?

Iceland.

Yep, that makes WS service levels super straightforward and consistent.

Next, I’d love to hear the non-confusing explanation about why, in Premium on some longer duration North America routes, WestJet sometimes does full, proper meals in Premium and - quite arbitrarily- sometimes only hands out packaged snacks in place of a meal.

[peytol]

It's pretty clearly laid out right here.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/inflight/food-and-beverages#economy

I took a look at Deltas food and beverage page for comparison, they offer a meal on international flights over 6.5 hrs, which seems pretty reasonable. Even if it was a cold wrap, or an elevated snack box similar to what United and delta sell on domestic. LIR and PUJ to YYC is a long ways with no food.

I don't know much about catering, but if your speaking about premium meals out of places like YQQ-PVR, I don't think its hard to imagine why gate gourmet doesn't have a kitchen in Comox. But especially with the Sunwing take over, they will need to come up with a good solution for catering premium out of small stations like Gander and Comox. It would be interesting to know how they could do that with any type of consistency with the rest of the network.

From what I understand if the plane was doing say, YYZ-CUN-YQR, if there is no company (or WJ is to cheap) to take the fresh catering dishes from YYZ in YQR, you cant leave them to go moldy on the plane, so that is another problem that may effect catering on that whole route. Stations like YXE and YQR have a decent number of flights though, so maybe they have catering.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Well, let’s see. First of all, the UK is not in Continental Europe.

They’re an island nation, considered to be part of Europe — but not Continental Europe.

The other island nation that’s also considered to be part of Europe?

Iceland.

Yep, that makes WS service levels super straightforward and consistent.

Next, I’d love to hear the non-confusing explanation about why, in Premium on some longer duration North America routes, WestJet sometimes does full, proper meals in Premium and - quite arbitrarily- sometimes only hands out packaged snacks in place of a meal.

All meals within NA are duration based for Westjet.

851 Miles. Fly that distance non stop you get a meal in premium.
225-850 Miles you get a light snack box.

What Westjet does that can be confusing is offer both premium & Business in North America. Business gets a meal no matter the duration of flight.

All of the above has been true for about a decade now (it was updated when Westjet got its 767's and again for the dreamliners).

Again, you may be confused but Westjet which has been all over the place in lots of areas, has left their meals rules basically the same for a long time now.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by msmariner

What does the competition offer on similar flights? Does IcelandAir offer hot food on its flights to YVR or SEA? Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights? I would say food for purchase would be common

AC (Rouge no less) offers complimentary food on YYZ/YUL-KEF. A snack and breakfast on the eastbound, a meal and a snack westbound.

Icelandair doesn't have any complimentary food on any of its flights. That's even worse than WS. At least WS has food to mainland Europe.

At the end of the day, people love to complain against AC, especially Rouge, when it is clearly a notch or two above the rest.

I think WS needs to look at what AC is doing and match it. If their website says they offer complimentary food to Europe, then KEF flights should get free food as well, as Iceland is in Europe. Unfortunately, all they need to do in order to keep not offering food to KEF is add an asterisk next to Europe and mention "except flights to KEF".

Sadly, the direction in which AVH has been steering WS tells me they will do the latter, and not the former.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

All meals within NA are duration based for Westjet.

851 Miles. Fly that distance non stop you get a meal in premium.
225-850 Miles you get a light snack box.

What Westjet does that can be confusing is offer both premium & Business in North America. Business gets a meal no matter the duration of flight.

All of the above has been true for about a decade now (it was updated when Westjet got its 767's and again for the dreamliners).

Again, you may be confused but Westjet which has been all over the place in lots of areas, has left their meals rules basically the same for a long time now.

Except there’s this … they’ve come up with a very controversial exception to their North America meal rules which has p’d off a lot of their Premium customers and frequent fliers.

Select flights over 2.5 hours will not receive a hot meal. A selection of retail snacks will be served with your choice of beverage.

So customers on “select” fights don’t get a meal. When it’s not convenient for WestJet, they don’t serve meals in Premium on flights where the length/duration does qualify it for a meal.

Supposedly it’s because they don’t want to engage catering companies in some stations, so some (but not all) flights operating out of those stations don’t get catering. Even though they do meet the distance/duration threshold for meals to be served in Premium.

You buy Premium for a flight that should have a meal — and the FA hands you a couple of “retail snacks” instead of a meal.

Totally arbitrary. Quite inconsistent. And, yes, confusing.

And FWIW, the rules have not stayed consistent over the past decade. Pre-pandemic, Premium received cold meal plates on shorter 737 flights (such as YYC-YWG). They increased the threshold for meal service, eliminating that cold meal for shorter flights. Now, those have been reduced to the little snack box with a bag of nuts.

[hollywoodcory]

Speaking of Icelandair in a recent media presentation, they listed YYC as a possible 321LR destination.

https://ml-eu.globenewswire.com/Resource/Download/80eaaf3d-6c29-453f-a234-0a4378d44e63
(Its on slide 60/65).