Downtown Update

[StEC]

I'm 100% in favour of a vacant home tax especially during a housing crisis. I don't think the vacant home tax was high enough IMO. It's a shame if they are scrapping it...

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by StEC

I'm 100% in favour of a vacant home tax especially during a housing crisis. I don't think the vacant home tax was high enough IMO. It's a shame if they are scrapping it...

Do you own property?

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

It is difficult to sympathize with the property owner when that status is now exclusive to the wealthy. This current system, where many (most, perhaps) are utterly hopeless in ever owning land should not be propagated.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

It is difficult to sympathize with the property owner when that status is now exclusive to the wealthy. This current system, where many (most, perhaps) are utterly hopeless in ever owning land should not be propagated.

Canada has the highest home ownership rate in the world. It's hardly reserved for the "wealthy". 66.5% of canadian households own their home.

[TheHonestMaple]

Kroetsch doesn't own any property, yet he goes on grandstanding about how homeowners are evil and deserve what's coming to them. Sorry, I worked hard to purchase my home. Did all the right things, paid all the taxes i've been asked. If I want to go down to Florida, or work a job in another province. I shouldn't be forced to rent out my home to someone. I never signed up to be a landlord.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Canada has the highest home ownership rate in the world. It's hardly reserved for the "wealthy". 66.5% of canadian households own their home.

One needs not look far to see that rate is drastically different among age demographics. A whole generation is growing up without hope of joining that percentage lest they strike gold or lose a wealthy relative.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Kroetsch doesn't own any property, yet he goes on grandstanding about how homeowners are evil and deserve what's coming to them. Sorry, I worked hard to purchase my home. Did all the right things, paid all the taxes i've been asked. If I want to go down to Florida, or work a job in another province. I shouldn't be forced to rent out my home to someone. I never signed up to be a landlord.

This is a good angle which should be considered more in this kind of discourse; at what point would the tax apply? If its to those who own houses in which they don't live, just to sit on them, such a tax should apply. For cases like yours, they should not.

[TheHonestMaple]

Unfortunately the by-law doesn't discriminate. If the property is not occupied for more than 183 days, you have to pay. It's absolutely —, and likely unconstitutional as was already mentioned. Looking forward to the court challenges on these vacant home taxes in Toronto and Vancouver.

It is not a property owners responsibility to house people. What we should be doing is creating the conditions that will allow more homes to be built. Unfortunately the social justice warriors on our council don't understand that.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

How often are regular homeowners out of the house for more than 6 months straight?

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

How often are regular homeowners out of the house for more than 6 months straight?

Probably extremely rare. Which makes me think this tax is purely for show. How much revenue is this even going to collect?

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Probably extremely rare. Which makes me think this tax is purely for show. How much revenue is this even going to collect?

I suspect you're not far off with it being for optic's sake, though the intention is not just virtue signaling or anything like that. This is not just to generate revenue, but to discourage landowners to sit upon properties when it can be far better spent, lest we end up with similar situations to the parking lot at King & James.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Do you own property?

No I missed that boat and feel utterly hopeless. I will probably never get to own in my lifetime unless a massive housing correction happens or the feds start building "war time" homes again! Even with a decent paying job and a partner who also has a good government job were are priced out.

No one should be hoarding property and letting it sit vacant driving up housing costs artificially by creating scarcity. Especially when there isn't close to enough housing in the first place to house everyone in this country!

There are too many homes and condos owned by foreign investors just sitting empty especially in the larger cities. There is a CBC documentary about these ghost towers and homes.

Hit them hard enough with tax rates and maybe they will end up for sale again giving some people a chance to not just own but actually live in them WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF HOUSING... not a get rich scheme monopolized by the wealthy from within Canada and outside of Canada!

EDIT: And don't get me started on AIR B&B's glad to see cities finally cracking down on them!

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by StEC

No I missed that boat and feel utterly hopeless. I will probably never get to own in my lifetime unless a massive housing correction happens or the feds start building "war time" homes again! Even with a decent paying job and a partner who also has a good government job were are priced out.

No one should be hoarding property and letting it sit vacant driving up housing costs artificially by creating scarcity. Especially when there isn't close to enough housing in the first place to house everyone in this country!

There are too many homes and condos owned by foreign investors just sitting empty especially in the larger cities. There is a CBC documentary about these ghost towers and homes.

Hit them hard enough with tax rates and maybe they will end up for sale again giving some people a chance to not just own but actually live in them WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF HOUSING... not a get rich scheme monopolized by the wealthy from within Canada and outside of Canada!

EDIT: And don't get me started on AIR B&B's glad to see cities finally cracking down on them!

very very few properties in Hamilton are likely owned by foreign investors.

I just somewhat take issue with your point that it is property owners responsibility to house people. Personally, I feel like you should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own property. I've mentioned above that this tax unfairly targets people that may have a legitimate reason why they have two properties. I haven't seen that addressed yet in the by-law. Frankly, as others have mentioned, the by-law is probably unconstitutional at the core.

Finally, I haven't seen any studies from the city that would even justify the tax. How many properties even sit empty? How much money is this going to bring in? I suspect very little, there just isn't many vacant units in this city. Most people that own multiple properties likely already rent them out, as they want to make money. The only people who would even leave them empty probably have good reason to (they probably use them for part of the year and don't want a renter living in there).

It's just such a virtue signalling half baked tax measure.

[atnor]

The feds bear a lot of blame for this crisis. Keeping interest rates low for so long and unprecedented immigration levels put undue pressure on the provinces and municipalities. The supply, and public infrastructure, can’t keep up with the demand.

I remember when it was considered racist or bigoted to question immigration levels but it’s simple math and supply and demand. Low housing supply that can’t keep up with the demand along with cheap and easy money has led to a sharp increase in prices. But now that rates have increased, people qualify for less and piss away more money due to the higher rates.

I feel bad for those that missed the boat. Not going to lie, I voted for PPC the last couple elections because they were the only ones with the balls to argue against the unsustainable levels of immigration. Their governance would likely be a mess but they were damn right about how the unprecedented levels of immigration would backfire on Canadians. But of course immigration and race were conflated which the media and terminally online activists ran with; however, we are starting to see the pendulum swing the other way but I fear a generation of people got screwed over massively.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by atnor

The feds bear a lot of blame for this crisis. Keeping interest rates low for so long and unprecedented immigration levels put undue pressure on the provinces and municipalities. The supply, and public infrastructure, can’t keep up with the demand.

I remember when it was considered racist or bigoted to question immigration levels but it’s simple math and supply and demand. Low housing supply that can’t keep up with the demand along with cheap and easy money has led to a sharp increase in prices. But now that rates have increased, people qualify for less and piss away more money due to the higher rates.

It still is judging by the holier than thou bleeding heart liberal responses I've gotten from people on these very forums for bringing that topic up.

[King&James]

So a bit of a slippery slope, let's have a vacant land tax, vacant housing unit tax, vacant bedroom, or under utilized house tax. Yikes

[atnor]

Originally Posted by King&James

So a bit of a slippery slope, let's have a vacant land tax, vacant housing unit tax, vacant bedroom, or under utilized house tax. Yikes

Don’t give them ideas, Cameron would love a straight white male tax.

[downtown_eddie_brown]

Kroetsch upsets the right people, as evidenced above. As long as housing is a commodity with no non-market alternative, people are going to use them as investment vehicles, immigrants or no immigrants. All the empty condo units are evidence of that, which is why a vacant unit tax is helpful. Welcome to a globalized housing market.

If you really want to bring housing prices under control, massive investment in government-owned housing rented out at far below market price is required; This forces private sales to compete with an artifically cheap alternative.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Programme

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by downtown_eddie_brown

Kroetsch upsets the right people, as evidenced above. As long as housing is a commodity with no non-market alternative, people are going to use them as investment vehicles, immigrants or no immigrants. All the empty condo units are evidence of that, which is why a vacant unit tax is helpful. Welcome to a globalized housing market.

If you really want to bring housing prices under control, massive investment in government-owned housing rented out at far below market price is required; This forces private sales to compete with an artifically cheap alternative.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Programme

what empty units? This is a common myth. the vast majority of units are occupied.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by atnor

The feds bear a lot of blame for this crisis. Keeping interest rates low for so long and unprecedented immigration levels put undue pressure on the provinces and municipalities. The supply, and public infrastructure, can’t keep up with the demand.

I remember when it was considered racist or bigoted to question immigration levels but it’s simple math and supply and demand. Low housing supply that can’t keep up with the demand along with cheap and easy money has led to a sharp increase in prices. But now that rates have increased, people qualify for less and piss away more money due to the higher rates.

I feel bad for those that missed the boat. Not going to lie, I voted for PPC the last couple elections because they were the only ones with the balls to argue against the unsustainable levels of immigration. Their governance would likely be a mess but they were damn right about how the unprecedented levels of immigration would backfire on Canadians. But of course immigration and race were conflated which the media and terminally online activists ran with; however, we are starting to see the pendulum swing the other way but I fear a generation of people got screwed over massively.

It’s, uh… it’s still considered racist. And voting for the PPC is not a good look. A bunch of anti-vax extremists…

Our population is aging and if we don’t want our economy to collapse from that the options are: a) force people to have kids, b) immigration, or c) cloning.

Only one of those is really viable. We do need to encourage more immigrants who are blue collar trades workers, though, since one of the primary bottlenecks in the construction industry isn’t a lack of land but a lack of workers.