Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Toronto has never hosted the Olympic Games though.

And probably never will. Nor a Universal Exposition.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

And probably never will. Nor a Universal Exposition.

Nor a Stanley Cup finals...

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

And probably never will. Nor a Universal Exposition.

Probably not in the near future but I bet the Summer Olympics or an Expo will be held in Toronto in 20-30 years.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Probably not in the near future but I bet the Summer Olympics or an Expo will be held in Toronto in 20-30 years.

World’s fairs are passé. The last great one was Expo 67. Any fair since then has been a poor imitation (sorry Vancouver). Olympic Games have pretty well priced themselves out of the market. In the future, only cities with established preexisting infrastructure will be bidding (or megalomaniac dictators trying to make a statement).

If Olympic Stadium in Montreal were even designated the “national track & field stadium “, I could see the Summer Olympics coming back here before any Olympics in Toronto.

[New Brisavoine]

Another form of two solitudes. Religious affiliations in the Americas, district by district.

[MonctonRad]

Religion is irrelevant in modern secular North American society, except in the fundamentalist rural Baptist US south, and amongst recent Muslim immigrants

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Probably not in the near future but I bet the Summer Olympics or an Expo will be held in Toronto in 20-30 years.

It would require a heck of a turnaround in public opinion.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

World’s fairs are passé. The last great one was Expo 67. Any fair since then has been a poor imitation (sorry Vancouver). Olympic Games have pretty well priced themselves out of the market. In the future, only cities with established preexisting infrastructure will be bidding (or megalomaniac dictators trying to make a statement).

If Olympic Stadium in Montreal were even designated the “national track & field stadium “, I could see the Summer Olympics coming back here before any Olympics in Toronto.

Interesting points. You're right that the Expo thing isn't really that exciting in this day and age with more multculturalism and Internet.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It would require a heck of a turnaround in public opinion.

Indeed. But I wouldn't totally rule it out.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Another form of two solitudes. Religious affiliations in the Americas, district by district.

What interesting is that for Ontario it's almost perfect in showing the areas that typically vote Liberal/NDP in red and the conservative ones in blue.

[New Brisavoine]

^^What's interesting also is it shows the extent of French Canadian expansion. Basically even when French Canadians have become Anglicized, their Catholicism remains on the map. This would show the spread of the French language in Canada today if French had never retreated in front of English. Ditto for Louisiana where it shows the extent of Cajun expansion.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

^^What's interesting also is it shows the extent of French Canadian expansion. Basically even when French Canadians have become Anglicized, their Catholicism remains on the map. This would show the spread of the French language in Canada today if French had never retreated in front of English. Ditto for Louisiana where it shows the extent of Cajun expansion.

Not necessarily. A lot of the Catholic settlers in the Ottawa area and particularly to the west of Ottawa were Irish, not French. In Ottawa City and in Lanark and Renfrew counties, Irish is the single most common ethnic origin.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Not necessarily. A lot of the Catholic settlers in the Ottawa area and particularly to the west of Ottawa were Irish, not French.

Of course. I meant the areas bordering Québec, not the large cities.

It's striking how Catholic majority extends all the way south to South Stormont and North Stormont. Cornwall is even more Catholic, with a color not very different from the province of Québec.

All these areas would be solidly French-speaking today if French hadn't retreated in front of English.

Cape Breton Island is also an interesting case: French language almost completely eradicated, but still majority Catholic, which betrays the origins of the population.

[1overcosc]

Cape Breton's ancestral population is mostly Catholic Scottish Highlanders.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Of course. I meant the areas bordering Québec, not the large cities.

It's striking how Catholic majority extends all the way south to South Stormont and North Stormont. Cornwall is even more Catholic, with a color not very different from the province of Québec.

All these areas would be solidly French-speaking today if French hadn't retreated in front of English.

Cape Breton Island is also an interesting case: French language almost completely eradicated, but still majority Catholic, which betrays the origins of the population.

Renfrew County, Ontario borders Quebec but it's predominantly Catholic color on that map comes from its Irish population.

Cornwall has a sizeable Franco-Ontarian minority population but I don't think it was ever majority French Canadian or francophone.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Cape Breton's ancestral population is mostly Catholic Scottish Highlanders.

And Miramichi and Saint John NB are Irish Catholic. Antigonish County in NS is also Highland Scottish.

[urbandreamer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Religion is irrelevant in modern secular North American society, except in the fundamentalist rural Baptist US south, and amongst recent Muslim immigrants

The majority of Canada's farmland is owned by Christian fundamentalists: Mennonites, Dutch Reformed/Netherlands, Hutterites, Amish, Scots-Irish Presbyterian, Scottish and German Catholics, Plymouth Brethren, Pentecostal, BIC etc. All across Canada, from Vauxhall AB to Steinbach MB to Enderby BC to Tilsonburg ON this is obvious. Same situation in the thousands of small towns outside of the big cities.

Then there's urban/suburban African & Caribbean Christians, Russian/Ukrainian/Serbian/Romanian
Orthodox Christians, millions of Conservative Italian, Portuguese and Latino RCs, Muslims, Sikhs & Orthodox Jews. Probably the most hardline intolerant/racist people I've met are Orthodox Jews, Dutch Reformed farmers, Conservative Mennonites and Filipino Protestants. This past Friday I got stuck in Friday prayer traffic around the Erb Street mosque: hundreds, if not thousands of cars parked around Westmount & Erb residential streets.

Secularism is an English Canadian (as in WASP) and Quebecois old stock phenomenon.

[Acajack]

You guys are right to point out the demographics of these regions, but a few caveats.

While areas like Renfrew County, the Cornwall region and Cape Breton were not really historically francophone regions, they did have much larger francophone populations in the past. Pembroke which is the main town in Renfrew Country for example had a francophone majority or close to it at one time in the past.

So a lot of these regions have substantial anglophone populations of French origins (but today entirely assimilated) that while they may not be the majority, in some cases may be numerous enough to push Catholicism over the top as the main religion.

I have to say that when I saw the religion map I also noticed that outside of the GTA and a few places with lots of 20th century Catholic immigration (from Italy, Portugal, etc.), it lines up a lot with areas where francophones are or used to be a larger share of the population. I am thinking also of areas like around Georgian Bay (Penetanguishene) north of Toronto, or Welland in the Niagara peninsula.

Areas with large Indigenous populations are also often Catholic due to the history with French Catholic missionaries and even mixing between Indigenous people and French or French Canadian explorers and settlers.

[urbandreamer]

I was surprised by the number of French Canadians I heard in a Cornwall Walmart. The same is true all throughout Northern Ontario and of course around Ottawa. I didn’t see/hear much difference between Capreol/Enbrum ON and Mont Laurier/Levis QC.

[Acajack]

Places like Cornwall, Sudbury and Timmins, while statistically about a quarter to a third francophone, probably have close to 50% of their population that is of French Canadian origin. There are tons of anglophones there with francophone surnames. You see it when you take part in competitions or tournaments with teams from these areas.

While there are no areas of Ottawa where francophones are still a majority, in the eastern parts of the city there are also many areas where people of French Canadian origin (actual francophones plus those assimilated but with French surnames) are close to the majority as well.

Again, it's very noticeable if you take your kids to a hockey tournament or a gymnastics competition and a team from east end Ottawa is there at the same time.