Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[RomanR27]

Porter inaugurates their MCO service today. First departure is scheduled at 5:30pm from gate 12, looks like the inbound YVR flight will make the turn down to Orlando. FLL begins next Thursday.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Porter inaugurates their MCO service today. First departure is scheduled at 5:30pm from gate 12, looks like the inbound YVR flight will make the turn down to Orlando. FLL begins next Thursday.

I imagine you'd need to overnight in Orlando if you wanted to connect to destinations in Mexico, Caribbean, or Central/South America?

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 69 - including 4 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 0

[fanofYOW]

The MCO to YOW flights have really taken some big attention on social media. Both Porter and MCO are posting quite a bit about it currently on IG and judging by the pictures, seems like extremely good uptake!

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Someone on a Boston Aviation thread posted US DOT numbers for their airport routes for August 2023 (the latest DOT stat release).

Porter was:

Route | Flights | Seats | Pax | Capacity %
BOS-YOW | 62 | 4,588 | 3,233 | 70.47%

For comparison PD on BOS-YTZ was 87%

This was likely mostly local O&D before the YVR/YEG flights began from YOW.

I was looking through that thread and some wicked stats are posted. One thing that stood out to me is BA…seems to be operating some weak stations/multi-dailies in the US (obviously I don’t know what their yields are). MSY, for example, is a 787 service (minimum capable aircraft) which in August saw 68.9% L/F. August, where everyone is usually, and should be, rammed. The incentives must be impressive.

If I’m YOW I’m mining USDOT data like that for trends and attacking, in this case to try and shift an LHR route like that one to YOW.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

I was looking through that thread and some wicked stats are posted. One thing that stood out to me is BA…seems to be operating some weak stations/multi-dailies in the US (obviously I don’t know what their yields are). MSY, for example, is a 787 service (minimum capable aircraft) which in August saw 68.9% L/F. August, where everyone is usually, and should be, rammed. The incentives must be impressive.

If I’m YOW I’m mining USDOT data like that for trends and attacking, in this case to try and shift an LHR route like that one to YOW.

That LHR-MSY is ... interesting. Cheapest one-way ticket is 1500 USD in Jan/Feb. But you can buy return for 750 USD.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

I was looking through that thread and some wicked stats are posted. One thing that stood out to me is BA…seems to be operating some weak stations/multi-dailies in the US (obviously I don’t know what their yields are). MSY, for example, is a 787 service (minimum capable aircraft) which in August saw 68.9% L/F. August, where everyone is usually, and should be, rammed. The incentives must be impressive.

If I’m YOW I’m mining USDOT data like that for trends and attacking, in this case to try and shift an LHR route like that one to YOW.

Subsides are likley the answer. USA counties, states and cities have offered big subsidies to get flights.
For BA that meant Baltimore, Austin, Pittsburgh, Charletson, Portland, Cincinnati all got big subsidies. I would assume NO isn't any different. Any loss gets pushed back to the city to pay.

[YOWflier]

There’s no question about subsidies. I mentioned they must be impressive. But don’t usually last forever and eventually a route stands on its own. Or doesn’t.

Subsidies notwithstanding I’m sure an airline like BA wants fuller planes than 69% in August feeding its LHR hub. I don’t have a doubt we can make a case to best that.

Obviously it’s just one month but my point is that there are likely opportunities not so far fetched out there. It amplifies how important the YOW CIP and other means to fund our own incentives are.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

There’s no question about subsidies. I mentioned they must be impressive. But don’t usually last forever and eventually a route stands on its own. Or doesn’t.

Subsidies notwithstanding I’m sure an airline like BA wants fuller planes than 69% in August feeding its LHR hub. I don’t have a doubt we can make a case to best that.

Obviously it’s just one month but my point is that there are likely opportunities not so far fetched out there. It amplifies how important the YOW CIP and other means to fund our own incentives are.

This is something I hope YOW is keeping an eye on-BA would be a major addition and with some subsidies would definitely do better than at least some of their new US routes.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

That LHR-MSY is ... interesting. Cheapest one-way ticket is 1500 USD in Jan/Feb. But you can buy return for 750 USD.

That's standard for Europe fares. You can generally book domestic/TB flights at the same price whether you do it as a round-trip or two separate one-way fares, but Europe one-ways are way more expensive.

[RomanR27]

Not a great pic but saw one of the recent ex-SAS Canadian North B737-700s parked at the hangar this weekend. Looks like this one ferried over in September.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by hehehe

This is something I hope YOW is keeping an eye on-BA would be a major addition and with some subsidies would definitely do better than at least some of their new US routes.

How much is the question. Baltimore (city/state/county) put up close to $6 million a year to British and that has been true since 2012. The secondary US cities put up tons in subsidies that would never (IMO should never) happen in Canada.

You will also be ensuring that Air Canada will look for equivalent if they ever want to restart London/Frankfurt flying from Ottawa.

[YOWflier]

How much is the business of YOW AA, other stakeholders like Ottawa/Outaouais Tourism and local industry, and the airline(s). They’ll be strategically applying money from an air service fund, itself funded by programs like the CIP and other revenue streams.

As private citizens we elect councillors and a mayor. They, in turn have voted to create programs like the YOW CIP. We need to stop politicizing these things after the fact and let the program do what it was created to do.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

That's standard for Europe fares. You can generally book domestic/TB flights at the same price whether you do it as a round-trip or two separate one-way fares, but Europe one-ways are way more expensive.

I've seen return ticket cost the same as one-way but never return ticket at half of one-way price on the same flight.

[Dominion301]

A Cessna 150 landed in a corn field near Stittsville on Monday at lunchtime. No injury to the lone occupant and the aircraft looks to be completely unscathed: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/no-injuries-re...n=where-most-cars-are-stolen-in-the-city

@RomanR27, yesterday I saw a 5T 73G parked down by the new Porter hangars. I wonder if 5T are tight on ramp space in front of their hangar the moment?

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 68 - including 6 sun flights

Today’s cancellation count (so far): 2 - including the following:

This is weird from this morning:
10:30 NOV.22 AIR CANADA AC8004 MONTREAL DEPARTED 25
10:30 NOV.22 AIR CANADA AC7680 MONTREAL DEPARTED 25

According to AC's flight status, it turns out AC8004 on a CR9 was cancelled and replaced by AC7680 on a CRJ.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

@RomanR27, yesterday I saw a 5T 73G parked down by the new Porter hangars. I wonder if 5T are tight on ramp space in front of their hangar the moment?

I noticed that too on Sunday, I could see it from Paul Benoit. The pic I took was from Saturday so it's possible they're the same ones or that might be the one that ferried in earlier this month.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

How much is the question. Baltimore (city/state/county) put up close to $6 million a year to British and that has been true since 2012. The secondary US cities put up tons in subsidies that would never (IMO should never) happen in Canada.

You will also be ensuring that Air Canada will look for equivalent if they ever want to restart London/Frankfurt flying from Ottawa.

The subsidy could probably be reduced if they also offered exclusivity on the route for X years.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Someone on a Boston Aviation thread posted US DOT numbers for their airport routes for August 2023 (the latest DOT stat release).

Porter was:

Route | Flights | Seats | Pax | Capacity %
BOS-YOW | 62 | 4,588 | 3,233 | 70.47%

For comparison PD on BOS-YTZ was 87%

This was likely mostly local O&D before the YVR/YEG flights began from YOW.

Here's the other TB routes for August 2023 from DOT data. It breaks different operating carrier/equipment types into unique records hence why there's multiple entries for the UA routes. No surprise YOW-EWR on AC was downgauged to a CR2 at the end of this month.

Porter - EWR
Route | L/F | Capacity | Pax
YOW-EWR | 83.38% | 3996 | 3332
EWR-YOW | 73.84% | 4144 | 3060
Total | 78.53% | 8140 | 6392

Jazz - EWR
Route | L/F | Capacity | Pax
YOW-EWR | 72.61% | 2176 | 1580
EWR-YOW | 73.67% | 2176 | 1603
Total | 73.14% | 4352 | 3183

Jazz - DCA
Route | L/F | Capacity | Pax
DCA-YOW | 86.43% | 1400 | 1210
YOW-DCA 78.69% | 1450 | 1141
Total | 82.49% | 2850 | 2351

United - IAD
Route | L/F | Capacity | Pax
YOW-IAD | 89.95% | 2100 | 1889
IAD-YOW | 92.95% | 2100 | 1952
YOW-IAD | 87.23% | 1550 | 1352
IAD-YOW | 87.35% | 1550 | 1354
Total | 89.68% | 7300 | 6547

United - EWR
Route | L/F | Capacity | Pax
EWR-YOW | 87.68% | 560 | 491
YOW-EWR | 82.14% | 700 | 575
YOW-EWR | 89.22% | 5880 | 5246
EWR-YOW | 89.83% | 6026 | 5413
Total | 89.06% | 13166 | 11725


United - ORD
Route | L/F | Capacity | Pax
ORD-YOW | 90.54% | 222 | 201
YOW-ORD | 90.99% | 222 | 202
YOW-ORD | 90.87% | 1500 | 1363
ORD-YOW | 92.52% | 1550 | 1434
YOW-ORD | 94.39% | 1960 | 1850
ORD-YOW | 94.74% | 1960 | 1857
Total | 93.16% | 7414 | 6907

Edit: Just realized the numbers here (total 40,338 pax) are a bit shy of the 44,748 quoted by the Airport Authority. Almost exactly equal to July's AA number of 40,352 though...

[zzptichka]

Wow United numbers are lit. Any chance they add more hubs DEN, LAX, SFO, IAH?