Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[kwoldtimer]

Into the realm of fantasy. Although I suppose one never knows ....

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Into the realm of fantasy. Although I suppose one never knows ....

I don't think it's far fetched. The turmoil that would follow would demolish all kinds of assumptions about our national identity. There's also all kinds of assumptions made about union with the US being made only as states, which certain American political factions might supposedly oppose. Who says they won't take on places as territories without Senate seats? It's a pretty strange assumption that Americans would allow all kinds of political turmoil to persist to their north, or that Canadians would similarly live with such indefinitely. Seems to be some kind of separatist revenge fantasy.

[MonctonRad]

I think in the event of Quebec separation, the only question is the number of successor states that would occupy the territory of the former country of Canada.

I personally think there would be five successor states - Newfoundland, the Maritimes, Quebec, Ontario and rump western Canada (incorporating the northern territories).

Quebec separation will lead to the true Balkanization of the country, just like the former Yugoslavia.

And what an absolute tragedy this would be. Instead of a living in a generally respected continent spanning middle power with G8 membership, we would instead occupy a fractured landscape of has been minor powers incapable of generating any influence on world affairs. Think of Bosnia or Slovenia. Can people even place these countries on a map???

And, no, the US would not want us. Canadian provinces are filled with communists and socialists (or so the Republicans believe). The addition of Canadian provinces would upset the delicate balance of their internal geopolitic. We would be considered pariahs.

[thurmas]

Western Canada would probably fit well into joining the U.S with BC being so similar to Washington and Oregon in values. Alberta Sask and Manitoba have natural and strong relations with Montana, Colorado, North Dakota and Minnesota. The cultural ties between Western Canada and Northern US states are much stronger too. I think Ontario would have a hard time no longer being the big dog a of relatively small pool but now just kinda on its own. Quebec would be fine just a French Sweden of North America so to speak but would likely see they may need to radically increase their taxes to make-up for equalization. Atlantic Canada and Newfoundland would need to merge but could eke out an existence with strong ties to new england.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Republicans in Congress would never accept it, so the point is moot.

Why would the point be moot? Perhaps you don't have a good understanding of Alberta and Sask's politics since you're across the pond, but based on their voting patterns they can easily end up being reliable Republican states, and at the worst they'd be a purple state. Or the Republicans can test drive them as Territories as TrueNorth00 alluded to.

The Republicans are also realpolitiks at the end of the day, and won't turn down the opportunity to massively enlarge their union. In a geopolitical context, Canada is America's Ukraine. I'm at a lost why you would think Americans will be aloof and be willing to give up control and influence over such an essential borderland. It defies expectations.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Instead of a living in a generally respected continent spanning middle power with G8 membership, we would instead occupy a fractured landscape of has been minor powers incapable of generating any influence on world affairs.

The G7 has become largely meaningless. How is Canada doing better than Australia because Canada is part of the G7 and Australia isn't?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't think it's far fetched. The turmoil that would follow would demolish all kinds of assumptions about our national identity. There's also all kinds of assumptions made about union with the US being made only as states, which certain American political factions might supposedly oppose. Who says they won't take on places as territories without Senate seats? It's a pretty strange assumption that Americans would allow all kinds of political turmoil to persist to their north, or that Canadians would similarly live with such indefinitely. Seems to be some kind of separatist revenge fantasy.

It does seem odd that they won't even entertain the idea that America will be a chief counterparty at the bargaining table, which is a really strange assumption given the current events going on in Ukraine and Russia. Just because America won't send in its army doesn't mean it won't pile on massive diplomatic, political and economic pressure.

There's also this weird assumption that the ROC is game-planning as much as the sovereigntists, and that there's consensus amongst the 9 provinces on how to deal with Day 1. The reality is there is no consensus, and the ROC is going to be caught flatfooted and totally unprepared, while provinces are going to rebel and openly challenge the legitimacy and authority of Ottawa. Which is the perfect recipe for immediate factionalism and further balkanization.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

The Republicans are also realpolitiks at the end of the day, and won't turn down the opportunity to massively enlarge their union. In a geopolitical context, Canada is America's Ukraine. I'm at a lost why you would think Americans will be aloof and be willing to give up control and influence over such an essential borderland. It defies expectations.

Republicans can't even agree on something as basic as supporting Ukraine to defeat Russia, so to imagine that they could have some elaborated geopolitical thoughts about annexing some Canadian provinces is a bit... unreal.

What matters most to Republicans these days is ideology. And Canada simply doesn't fit. Not to mention that all sorts of vested interests would be opposing this "annexation" (for example I suppose Alaskan representatives wouldn't be all too pleased to see Albertan oil enter the Republic).

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Republicans can't even agree on something as basic as supporting Ukraine to defeat Russia, so to imagine that they could have some elaborated geopolitical thoughts about annexing some Canadian provinces is a bit... unreal.

What matters most to Republicans these days is ideology. And Canada simply doesn't fit. Not to mention that all sorts of vested interests would be opposing this "annexation" (for example I suppose Alaskan representatives wouldn't be all too pleased to see Albertan oil enter the Republic).

The faction of Republicans that don't care about Ukraine are the isolationists. They don't care about Ukraine since it's an ocean away and it's not in America's backyard.

But this ideology doesn't extend to geopolitical situations right in America's backyard. We only have to look at Cuba, where the US under both parties continuously meddles in their affairs.

And no one said the rest of Canada has to join America in one swoop. They will probably welcome to the union Republican friendly provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan first, and then work out other arrangements with other provinces down the road. What Ottawa wants is moot. Three quarters of Alberta's oil are already exported to the US, so I don't see why Alaska would be up in arms. If BC also joins the union, it will even give Alaska a direct road bridge to the mainland.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Republicans can't even agree on something as basic as supporting Ukraine to defeat Russia, so to imagine that they could have some elaborated geopolitical thoughts about annexing some Canadian provinces is a bit... unreal.

What matters most to Republicans these days is ideology. And Canada simply doesn't fit. Not to mention that all sorts of vested interests would be opposing this "annexation" (for example I suppose Alaskan representatives wouldn't be all too pleased to see Albertan oil enter the Republic).

Stick to talking about France. You're out of your depth analyzing the US, running substantially off a bunch of stereotypes.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Stick to talking about France. You're out of your depth analyzing the US, running substantially off a bunch of stereotypes.

He’s a foreign agent provocateur bent on sowing discontent and angst. For all we know, he’s really Yuri from Smolensk, not New Brisavoine from Paris.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

He’s a foreign agent provocateur bent on sowing discontent and angst. For all we know, he’s really Yuri from Smolensk, nor New Brisavoine from Paris.

What is with these folks? We have an American spamming the Canadian EV thread and a Frenchman trying to explain Ottawa-Montreal is like the Franco-Belgian border. I wish the mods would send some of these rabbling off-topic interlopers packing.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't think it's far fetched. The turmoil that would follow would demolish all kinds of assumptions about our national identity. There's also all kinds of assumptions made about union with the US being made only as states, which certain American political factions might supposedly oppose. Who says they won't take on places as territories without Senate seats? It's a pretty strange assumption that Americans would allow all kinds of political turmoil to persist to their north, or that Canadians would similarly live with such indefinitely. Seems to be some kind of separatist revenge fantasy.

Hey, I'm the one who keeps reminding that all assumptions about separation should be questioned. In fact, nobody really knows what could happen.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Think of Bosnia or Slovenia. Can people even place these countries on a map???

Can Americans find Canada on a map ??

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Can Americans find Canada on a map ??

https://youtu.be/R8XtyRy87NI?si=h7pRZuoSBrYCJm4B&t=94

"Où est le Québec sur cette carte?"

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

https://youtu.be/R8XtyRy87NI?si=h7pRZuoSBrYCJm4B&t=94

"Où est le Québec sur cette carte?"

Yes, but Americans don,t know anything about the rest of the world by design...

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

https://youtu.be/R8XtyRy87NI?si=h7pRZuoSBrYCJm4B&t=94

"Où est le Québec sur cette carte?"

Putain, c'est violent... Un désastre. Ils les ont sélectionnés. C'est pas possible.
Ou alors c'est contagieux, comme tout ce qui vient des US.
Soyez sympas, laissez-les au moins tricher en consultant leurs téléphones.

1000 cm dans 1 m... Sérieux ? On apprend ça quand on a quoi ? 9 ans ? Ou moins ? Ces gens ont dû oublier l'école primaire et les fondamentaux.
C'est comme le permis de conduire. La plupart des gens qui conduisent tous les jours seraient incapables de le repasser.

C'est pire que chez nous. Je crois que même les immigrés récemment débarqués qui n'ont pas eu la chance de l'école connaissent mieux les choses.

Sans rire, il m'arrive de parler à des Québécois sur d'autres forums, dans notre partie (science des données, maths, programmation, ce genre de trucs...).
Les mecs sont super éduqués et me font très bonne impression. C'est des vrais pros qui font le job et savent plein de trucs.
Genre, après un petit moment de réflexion, ils savent te situer l'Ouzbékistan sur la carte d'Asie centrale.
Rien à voir avec cette vidéo.

Bon, cela dit, je ne sais pas situer la Gaspésie. C'est où, ce bled ?

11 nations autochtones du Québec... Éh les gars, vous faites chier. Vous me posez une colle.
J'ai le droit de tricher ?

5:30 Les Iroquois ! Je connais !
Comment ça s'épelle ?...
Ouais ! Je l'ai même écrit correctement ! Et j'ai même pas triché, hein.
J'avoue, c'est de la chance. Lol.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Putain, c'est violent... Un désastre. Ils les ont sélectionnés. C'est pas possible.
Ou alors c'est contagieux, comme tout ce qui vient des US.
Soyez sympas, laissez-les au moins tricher en consultant leurs téléphones.

1000 cm dans 1 m... Sérieux ? On apprend ça quand on a quoi ? 9 ans ? Ou moins ? Ces gens ont dû oublier l'école primaire et les fondamentaux.
C'est comme le permis de conduire. La plupart des gens qui conduisent tous les jours seraient incapables de le repasser.

C'est pire que chez nous. Je crois que même les immigrés récemment débarqués qui n'ont pas eu la chance de l'école connaissent mieux les choses.

Sans rire, il m'arrive de parler à des Québécois sur d'autres forums, dans notre partie (science des données, maths, programmation, ce genre de trucs...).
Les mecs sont super éduqués et me font très bonne impression. C'est des vrais pros qui font le job et savent plein de trucs.
Genre, après un petit moment de réflexion, ils savent te situer l'Ouzbékistan sur la carte d'Asie centrale.
Rien à voir avec cette vidéo.

Bon, cela dit, je ne sais pas situer la Gaspésie. C'est où, ce bled ?

11 nations autochtones du Québec... Éh les gars, vous faites chier. Vous me posez une colle.
J'ai le droit de tricher ?

5:30 Les Iroquois ! Je connais !
Comment ça s'épelle ?...
Ouais ! Je l'ai même écrit correctement ! Et j'ai même pas triché, hein.
J'avoue, c'est de la chance. Lol.

Guy Nantel (celui qui pose les questions) le dit lui-même à ses "victimes", s'ils répondent à 20 questions et qu'ils en manquent une seule, c'est celle-ci qui sera dans le vidéo. Je crois aussi que la caméra est intimidante et que les gens ne sont pas préparés à répondre à des questions. Dans des conditions plus relaxées, les réponses auraient probablement été meilleures et plusieurs personnes s'en sont probablement voulues immédiatement après l'entrevue. La rue n'est pas le meilleur endroit pour avoir des bonnes réponses mais en excellent moyen d'avoir un vidéo comique.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

The faction of Republicans that don't care about Ukraine are the isolationists. They don't care about Ukraine since it's an ocean away and it's not in America's backyard.

But this ideology doesn't extend to geopolitical situations right in America's backyard. We only have to look at Cuba, where the US under both parties continuously meddles in their affairs.

And no one said the rest of Canada has to join America in one swoop. They will probably welcome to the union Republican friendly provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan first, and then work out other arrangements with other provinces down the road. What Ottawa wants is moot. Three quarters of Alberta's oil are already exported to the US, so I don't see why Alaska would be up in arms. If BC also joins the union, it will even give Alaska a direct road bridge to the mainland.

The Democratics would never agree.
Maybe it would spur MOC to seek to join the EU.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The Democratics would never agree.
Maybe it would spur MOC to seek to join the EU.

The ROC applying to join the EU would be my personal preference as well if Day 1 happens. It would greatly simplify and speed up negotiations with a sovereign Quebec, assuming that they would partake in the same interest to join the EU, with Schengen and the Euro currency in place. France would probably be giddy at the prospect, and it may lure the UK to rejoin the EU as well.

BUT.. IMO the idea is dead on arrival, I seriously doubt the Americans will entertain the idea of having the European political project extended right to its doorstep, even if they're steadfast NATO allies. If the Americans were forced to choose between allowing EU expansion into North America, or American political union with some Canadian provinces they're going to go with the latter.

I doubt the Western provinces will want to join the EU either based on their own best interests. They will continue to pursue union with the United States based on cultural, language and political affinities, even if they can't get statehood from the beginning.