The Ultimate Vancouver Rumour Thread!

[whatnext]

Anyone care to hazard a guess who it is?

Steve Saretsky
@SteveSaretsky
21m
A big fish in the Vancouver development space is toast. Spread thin and levered to the gills. It will turn heads six months from now when it becomes public knowledge. I’m only surprised it took as long as it did.

https://twitter.com/SteveSaretsky/status/1719495609948963092

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Anyone care to hazard a guess who it is?

Steve Saretsky
@SteveSaretsky
21m
A big fish in the Vancouver development space is toast. Spread thin and levered to the gills. It will turn heads six months from now when it becomes public knowledge. I’m only surprised it took as long as it did.

https://twitter.com/SteveSaretsky/status/1719495609948963092

please be westbank. they build — buildings.

but who is this guy? and why should we believe what he says?

[bb1510]

.

[jollyburger]

I guess other than Creative Energy's project they don't have anything on the books in Vancouver right now?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by bb1510

I heard it is them.

Also heard that Quadreal took over Oakridge but they are still doing the sales and marketing

Wow, I’m shocked. I would have thought Gillespie would have been able to weather it and have enough political connections to help with that. But given those numbers you posted about 1550 Alberti, he’s building for a market which no longer exists.

[bb1510]

.

[Vancouver_Highrise]

They have projects in the works in Toronto and I wonder what it will also mean for Senakw

[Feathered Friend]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I guess other than Creative Energy's project they don't have anything on the books in Vancouver right now?

Off the top of my head they have the moderate income rental building at Broadway & Alma, 1684 Alberni, the mass timber building at 2015 Main St, a couple buildings under the policy enquiry process on Hastings, and obviously they're finishing up The Butterfly and 33 Cordova.

I don't have any insight into which firm that account is referencing, but it's worth highlighting that they mention it's a residential developer.

For what it's worth, Landa Global has more than couple high end residential proposals Downtown which have yet to submit building permits. Wall has seen a few developments fall apart in Kerrisdale over the last few years, but I doubt it's them.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Vancouver_Highrise

They have projects in the works in Toronto and I wonder what it will also mean for Senakw

Westbank's 50-50 got dropped to 30% when the Ontario pension fund took 20%.

And the Squamish First Nation directly received the $1.4 billion loan from CHMC

Initiative is providing $668 million for phase one and $745 million for phase two. Program loans are on a 10-year term, fixed interest rate and up to 50-year amortization.

https://www.squamish.net/senakw-funding/

https://biv.com/article/2022/09/trudeau-announces-14-billion-federal-loan-westbanks-senakw-project

Each Partnership will engage Westbank as the project manager for a phase of the Project. Westbank
will organize and lead the design, development and construction management of each phase in
consultation with representatives of the Nation. Each Partnership will pay a project management fee to
Westbank equal to 3.5% of the approved hard and soft costs of each phase. This fee will cover
Westbank's services and expertise in the following areas: development, design, public art curation,
commercial leasing, rental leasing, marketing & sales, sustainability, asset, property & facilities
management, urban planning and community consultation, procurement, customer care/after sales
services, and finance and accounting.

Westbank is required to provide to each Partnership
 the cash required for each Partnership to pay the NAC to the Nation, as described in paragraph I
(ii) below. Assuming that the Project will have a gross floor area of 3 million square feet, the
total NAC payable by the Partnerships will be in the range of $180,000,000; and
 its expertise in securing loans to the Partnerships, on favourable terms, to finance the
development and construction of all phases. Westbank will provide all guarantees required to
support borrowing by each of the Partnerships.

https://senakw.com/pdf/Information-Document-Business-Terms-Final-Oct-24-2019.pdf

[whatnext]

How much is “public art expertise’ worth these days on the open market?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How much is “public art expertise’ worth these days on the open market?

Anyone with Douglas Coupland's phone number..

[idunno]

Wow, Westbank's exit would be huge. And we have to wait six months to find out?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by idunno

Wow, Westbank's exit would be huge. And we have to wait six months to find out?

Probably has more to do with legal/financial things to force them into restructuring or something.. if bb1510 knew about it then it's probably already fairly common knowledge with insiders?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Probably has more to do with legal/financial things to force them into restructuring or something.. if bb1510 knew about it then it's probably already fairly common knowledge with insiders?

Unless they've changed their practice, 'Westbank' doesn't develop anything. Each project has a seperate limited liability entity (including the projects in Texas, Washington and California). I'm not sure what that means for the 'Westbank being in trouble' story (which seems to be entirely unconfirmed so far, and Saretsky isn't saying).

[Klazu]

You would think a developer could just sell few of their development lots to get few hundred million dollars to deal with any issues, but I guess their problems are in the billion range?

First local developer to collapse in lieu of China's property market collapse? It is going to reach and hit Canada hard, no matter what people like to think.

[MalcolmTucker]

Interest rates being higher dampen the price of any assemblies. Plus why buy now and save a competitor if you can wait and get the same property in bankruptcy.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

You would think a developer could just sell few of their development lots to get few hundred million dollars to deal with any issues, but I guess their problems are in the billion range?

First local developer to collapse in lieu of China's property market collapse? It is going to reach and hit Canada hard, no matter what people like to think.

PortLiving went into creditor protection about three years ago, and there were court-ordered sales of several of their project sites, including Terrace House in Coal Harbour. Their East Broadway condo building is just completing construction, so they may have avoided closing down completely.

Coromandel went into creditor protection in February 'citing more than $700 million in outstanding debt', but in March was no longer seeking protection under the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act (CCAA) after reaching agreements with its lenders. Some of its projects have been taken on by other developers.

There are a number of lesser known and realitvely minor players who had small projects on the Cambie corridor, and some of those have apparently been selling off their sites. Atmosphere in Richmond stalled during excavation but before construction, about three years ago and the developer's financial obligations are slowly being settled by the court. But we haven't seen anything like Toronto's 'The One' around here in the current development cycle.

[officedweller]

At least The Butterfly is largely completed on the outside.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by officedweller

At least The Butterfly is largely completed on the outside.

Though bb5510's info about 1550 Alberni makes you wonder how many are firmly sold....

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Though bb5510's info about 1550 Alberni makes you wonder how many are firmly sold....

Until it completes early next year, Westbank won't know. Any would-be buyers who walk away leave the developer retaining the deposit of 25% of the price (10% signing, 10% with 6 months, 5% in 1 year) so you're more likely to see assignment sales, at least initially. There seem to be 12 on offer at the moment.