Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by lio45

The idea behind the CAQ was always that unlike the hated Liberals, whom we resoundingly voted out when opening the door wide to the CAQ, they would be a large tent party, unideological, and most of all, good managers, i.e. no "major" apple-cart-upsetting achievements, except the thing is, lately, they've started to turn into shitty managers, and the electorate is clearly showing them it doesn't like it.

They had one job, and they've been at it for five years and counting, and everything's become shittier under their watch, so...

(Not saying another party would've done a better job in the context, but when you get elected for a reason, and you don't deliver, it's no surprise that the people will then want to vote you out!)

Makes sense then. Too me CAQ has been too timid in getting large things done. Atleast Charest had Plan Nord or there was James Bay in the 70s but today CAQ seems very reactionary and not very proactive on a lot of files.

[harls]

Originally Posted by lio45

And maybe I don't feel isolated when I'm in Tokyo, but it's still a foreign place

I was replying to urbandreamer's claim that Quebec is isolated, not foreign.

[MolsonExport]

As an anglo, presumably you will be as isolated in Quebec as Lio would be in Tokyo

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

As an anglo, presumably you will be as isolated in Quebec as Lio would be in Tokyo

Exactly! And language is only one thing as you will feel a lot more foreign in the US than in Montreal.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

20 years ago I would have very much disagreed with you. In the 90s I found Montreal had a lot more in common with GTA than either had with Alberta or the Maritimes. Language aside sure but many other aspects of life were more similar. Including as you point out immigration and urban and suburban life. These trends have now spread and Quebec has diverged on some of those issues. Doubled down on a more European approach to city planning and immigration has been very much limited to a few groups in much smaller numbers. At the end of the day it doesn't matter you aren't a country unless you actually are.

That'd be the opposite of my personal experience. If anything I find the links between Toronto and Montreal to be stronger than before. Young Montrealais are plugged into global media in a way their previous generations were not, and ironically I find English fluency is actually better now in Montreal than 20+ years ago (but without sacrificing French).

If anything GTA's going through a period of civic stagnation and public neglect, while Montreal's going through a public realm renaissance, while in the 90s-early 2000s the script was flipped around. That's probably why you feel some kind of divergence.

The biggest gap I find these days is between Toronto and the hinterlands of Ontario. Toronto is not very wedded to the concept of Ontario, and functions more like a city-state. The rest of Ontario might as well be orbiting the USA.

[Zeej]

I would argue that most regions in Canada have diverged from one another in past 2 decades and from the weird, pseudo-centralized 1990s 'number 1 country in the world' PR brand that Canada proclaimed for itself. That Quebec is any more different from the ROC is just the lowest hanging of fruits. The country has undergone significant changes in the last 20 years, particularly demographic. There are several well established divides that still exist, but I'd argue that the urban-rural divide is massive these days. The commonalities seem to be few and far between, right down to the ideology of what Canada is. This extends to within provinces and even to within the larger metro areas where the urban-suburban divide is evident.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Makes sense then. Too me CAQ has been too timid in getting large things done. Atleast Charest had Plan Nord or there was James Bay in the 70s but today CAQ seems very reactionary and not very proactive on a lot of files.

Charest's Plan Nord was all talk but didn't achieve much of anything.

The CAQ is proactive to try to get electric car batteries plants (and others) in Québec, and that might end up getting new dams built.

[Acajack]

CBC goes to Paris to get podcasts dubbed into French to avoid Québécois accent

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2023/1...-cbc-podcasts-adapte-en-francais-a-paris

[MonctonRad]

CBC or Radio-Canada???

If CBC, this is simply cultural insensitivity. If Radio-Canada, then heads should roll.......

[Tone]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Charest's Plan Nord was all talk but didn't achieve much of anything.

The CAQ is proactive to try to get electric car batteries plants (and others) in Québec, and that might end up getting new dams built.

I saw what i believe to be the U/C Ford and South Korean battery cathode factory in Bécancour last month, it's an impressive structure to say the least!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

I also don’t have to answer how I voted (I don’t even know, as I never had to consider it). Unborn in 1980, kid in 1995. Both my parents voted yes both times, however.

Next provincial election, rather than just not voting which has been my new principle for a while (thank George Carlin ), it’s looking like I might actually go cast a vote for the first time in a long time, for the PQ, if they continue to be a credible alternative to the CAQ.

I've come to the realization recently that I was mistaken when I used to claim that I'd NEVER vote for specific parties. Never say never in politics is my new rule. (Should have known that all along, really.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

CBC or Radio-Canada???

If CBC, this is simply cultural insensitivity. If Radio-Canada, then heads should roll.......

CBC English.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I find English fluency is actually better now in Montreal than 20+ years ago (but without sacrificing French).

.

The jury is still out on that.

Plus... new measures to protect French! Incoming!

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The jury is still out on that.

Plus... new measures to protect French! Incoming!

I'm an optimist in that regard.

Speaking from personal experience, my relatives in Montreal (all Allophones with an English education) these days are much more concerned about their children's French fluency, and prioritise sending their kids to the French school system. 20-30 years ago they would probably be exploiting every loophole to get into the English school system. I see this sea change in attitude as an integration success story.

As they say, English permeates every facet of North American life, so there's no fear their kids will struggle in English.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by Acajack

CBC goes to Paris to get podcasts dubbed into French to avoid Québécois accent

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2023/1...-cbc-podcasts-adapte-en-francais-a-paris

Good i would do the same as I get older I find Quebec French harder and harder to listen to and seems more garbled and annoying every year compared to France French.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Good i would do the same as I get older I find Quebec French harder and harder to listen to and seems more garbled and annoying every year compared to France French.

Not sure what your level of French is but this is an inaccurate assessment of the evolution of French in Québec.

It is moving closer to international French. Not moving away from it.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

CBC goes to Paris to get podcasts dubbed into French to avoid Québécois accent

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2023/1...-cbc-podcasts-adapte-en-francais-a-paris

scandalous.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure what your level of French is but this is an inaccurate assessment of the evolution of French in Québec.

It is moving closer to international French. Not moving away from it.

Combination of Manitoba French immersion and learning French from my dad and aunts France French from their years in Grenoble. I think because I live in a franco Manitoba community with a lot of neighbors who speak very stereotypical Quebec French and what I see on Quebec TV it kinda just grates on my ears sometimes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Combination of Manitoba French immersion and learning French from my dad and aunts France French from their years in Grenoble. I think because I live in a franco Manitoba community with a lot of neighbors who speak very stereotypical Quebec French and what I see on Quebec TV it kinda just grates on my ears sometimes.

Francophone communities outside Québec are increasingly becoming the last holdouts of the traditional colloquial French Canadian slang language known as joual.

Oh there is still plenty of joual left in Québec but you'll hear it more in its pure historical glory in Timmins ON and Gravelbourg SK.

A lot of classic joual terms are not known to my kids and their friends.

[thurmas]

for some laughs

Sugar Sammy: meilleurs moments France vs Québec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKS2MYg5bCI