Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[RC14]

^
I forgot about Kanab. That is one that almost punches above it's weight given how small and remote it is.

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by wrendog

Now, looking at under construction and approved? Raleigh about to blow up and is destroying SLC

Raleigh has 8 towers over 200 feet currently under construction (shortest 213, tallest 380). SLC has 2 under construction (Astra, Convexity)

Raleigh has 27 (!) approved tower projects including multiple over 40 stories. And this doesn't include 13 or so 30 story towers that are planned for Shaw University right outside downtown. They also have 16 proposals that have not been approved yet.

SLC? 7 or so proposals.

Good for Raleigh. Jealous.

Fascinating. I wonder why SLC lags so much in under-construction and proposed towers. I also wonder what the figures are for other similar cities like Milwaukee and Sacramento.

[Atlas]

For every one thriving small town in Utah, there are ten in Colorado. That's the point. It's not just a general population size difference. The traditionally insular culture probably has a hand in it, as freeshavocado said.

Maybe I was harsh on Helper. It has more going for it than most other towns in Utah.



In other news, Astra topped out today!

Final beam placed atop the tallest building in Utah

[i2theSKY]

Originally Posted by Atlas

For every one thriving small town in Utah, there are ten in Colorado. That's the point. It's not just a general population size difference. The traditionally insular culture probably has a hand in it, as freeshavocado said.

Maybe I was harsh on Helper. It has more going for it than most other towns in Utah.

Are you confusing Helper with Heber by chance? I think Utah small towns are doing better than your giving them credit for. Statewide Utah has a 2.5% unemployment rate compared to Colorado at 3.1%. Each small town individually doesn't effect that number much, but all of them added together certainly do. This is from a few years back, but According to this report both Utah, Colorado, and a handful of other states all have healthier small towns than the US average. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/...all-towns-in-the-us-struggle-some-thrive

Awesome news about Astra! I figured it should be topping out very soon. Hopefully they still plan on building the tower directly next to it.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by i2theSKY

Are you confusing Helper with Heber by chance? I think Utah small towns are doing better than your giving them credit for. Statewide Utah has a 2.5% unemployment rate compared to Colorado at 3.1%. Each small town individually doesn't effect that number much, but all of them added together certainly do. This is from a few years back, but According to this report both Utah, Colorado, and a handful of other states all have healthier small towns than the US average. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/...all-towns-in-the-us-struggle-some-thrive

No, I'm not. This is Helper:



Take a road trip through the backcountry in Colorado and you'll see what I mean. Utah has nothing like Leadville or Ouray or Gunnison (and I could go on). These little towns have better main streets than Cedar City, which is much larger and has the advantage of being on I-15.

[i2theSKY]

^^^^
Speaking of Helper I love this old gas station.


I've been through several of the mountain towns in Colorado. They have done a great job of preserving their historic downtowns.

[i2theSKY]

Question for Schmoe. What is the current projection for full completion of Astra? Also have they mentioned any kind of timeline for their next SLC project once Astra is complete? Any additional images you may have from the topping out ceremony would also be great!

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by freeshavocado

Fascinating. I wonder why SLC lags so much in under-construction and proposed towers. I also wonder what the figures are for other similar cities like Milwaukee and Sacramento.

Here are some other city comparisons (Milwaukee, Columbus, Kansas City, San Antonio, Sacramento):

Towers over 600 feet:

Milwaukee 1
Columbus 1
Kansas City 1

Towers 500-600 feet:

Milwaukee 2
Columbus 4
Kansas City 2
San Antonio 1

Towers 400-500 feet:

Milwaukee 3
Columbus 5
Kansas City 6
San Antonio 4
Sacramento 2
SLC 2

Towers 300-400 feet:

Milwaukee 8
Columbus 8
Kansas City 6
San Antonio 10
Sacramento 10
SLC 12

Towers 200-300 feet:

Milwaukee 41
Columbus 17
Kansas City 29
San Antonio 17
Sacramento 7
SLC 12

Under construction:

Milwaukee 2 (tallest 537)
Columbus 2 (tallest 411)
Kansas City (no info on wiki i can find)
San Antonio 2 (tallest 388)
Sacramento 1 (330)
SLC 2 (tallest 449)

Approved:

Milwaukee 3 (tallest 277)
Columbus 0
Kansas City (N/A)
San Antonio 5 (tallest 351)
Sacramento (Unsure.. see proposed)
SLC 0

Proposed:

Milwaukee 5 (tallest 390)
Columbus 2 (tallest 19 stories)
Kansas City (N/A)
San Antonio 3 (tallest 324)
Sacramento 8 (unsure how many are approved. Tallest 557)
SLC 7 (tallest 392)

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Take a road trip through the backcountry in Colorado and you'll see what I mean. Utah has nothing like Leadville or Ouray or Gunnison

ehem



Check...and mate.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by Comrade

ehem


Check...and mate.

I'm sure I'll catch y'all hanging around around the affordable housing in our Gunnison.

[Utahn]

I'm definitely positive on Helper, folks there have really changed the trajectory of Helper over these past few years. See reporting from Utah Stories below (the Trib has done some reporting on this as well). State also has some interesting economic development initiatives in Carbon and Emery Counties that are slowly bearing fruit in the remote work and housing space.

I think with the spread of tourism and new state economic development initiatives such as the Main Street facade program we'll slowly see more transformation in small towns like Bluff, Torrey, Milford, and Delta. If the Desert Wind comes back that may give Delta and Milford a boost, and the investment in hydrogen at Intermountain Power Project (IPP) and the salt caverns there looks set to boost Delta over the long term, even given the short term employment drawdown at IPP in the short-term.


https://utahstories.com/2023/06/helper-utahs-next-tourism-boom-town/

https://www.thehelperproject.net/

Originally Posted by i2theSKY

^^^^
Speaking of Helper I love this old gas station.


I've been through several of the mountain towns in Colorado. They have done a great job of preserving their historic downtowns.

[delts145]

Brigham City is another one that has a great Main St. I agree with Atlas that Utah has been too slow to reclaim, beautify, and add back some of its lost Main Street charm. I do think the trajectory is changing for many towns that once seemed abandoned but it has been too slow in coming. However, there are good signs that Utah's small towns are becoming less and less insular and more progressive in demanding their fair share of the pie as each year passes. It only makes sense that many of these towns like Kanab continue to invest in their infrastructure as Utah's tourism industry is on fire.

One thing that frustrates me most about Main Streets in Utah is that towns along the Wasatch Front like American Fork and Murray seem to move like turtles when investing in the multi-purpose infrastructure of their town centers.

Here are some pics of Cedar City's Downtown Main. I think Cedar City is doing quite well, both in growth and its Main Street and infrastructure improvements. Not to mention, of course, a vibrant college scene and a Shakspearean Festival that the pros rate in the world's top tier.

Cedar City






Also a few of Brigham City's Main and a couple of its stunning historical buildings




IMO, this will always be one of the most beautiful pioneer-era architectural examples in the Mountain West.
I would like to see more current buildings with this stone/brick/woodwork trim contrast.




I think one of the things that surprised me most with Vernal is that there's some serious green thumb work going on here. I really admire how much Vernal has been investing back into their city's beautification. A lot of isolated towns in the West would never do something like this.

Edit: Just curious, but how many of you on the forum have ever been through downtown Payson? Now there's a town center that needs to get its act together. Talk about incredible potential. It's setup has so much to work with!

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Take a road trip through the backcountry in Colorado and you'll see what I mean. Utah has nothing like Leadville or Ouray or Gunnison (and I could go on). These little towns have better main streets than Cedar City, which is much larger and has the advantage of being on I-15.

While I can definitely appreciate some of the architecture in these towns especially Leadville, I don't think any of them can in general begin to compete with Park City. Park City covers a multitude of different aesthetics and functions that most towns will never have. It's pretty much in a universe of its own.

Town centers that I would like to see become more like Leadville or Ouray are Magna, Murray, Lehi, Pleasant Grove, Midvale, American Fork, Manti, etc. The only difference would be adding more height along Wasatch Front Mains like Murray for accommodating much-needed multi-purpose 24-hour residential activity. Of course, it would involve constructing true-to-form classics of the past, which I know some don't like. However, a faithful recreation constructed with modern gut strength will be a valuable treasure, especially fifty or more years from now.

By the way Atlas, I was gobsmacked impressed by your comment on classic architecture the other day.

Ouray

[Atlas]

Thanks delts. Forgot about Brigham City, which does have a good main street.

I am convinced that Murray's main street (which is State street) won't ever be a nice, walkable area again without a serious road diet on State on those blocks.. Six lanes of traffic at 45+ mph is just very unpleasant and loud for pedestrians. Unfortunately, UDOT won't yield on that anytime soon

Midvale has more hope because its main street is sheltered from the traffic flow. Holladay is making strides too.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Thanks delts. Forgot about Brigham City, which does have a good main street.

I am convinced that Murray's main street (which is State street) won't ever be a nice, walkable area again without a serious road diet on State on those blocks.. Six lanes of traffic at 45+ mph is just very unpleasant and loud for pedestrians. Unfortunately, UDOT won't yield on that anytime soon

Midvale has more hope because its main street is sheltered from the traffic flow. Holladay is making strides too.

Holiday's downtown looks great!

[delts145]

I agree about Murray Atlas.

Holladay is definitely headed in the right direction. Anyone notice lately how the old mall site is progressing?

[bob rulz]

There's definitely work going on at the old Cottonwood Mall site. I could get down there for pictures soon if I remember, but I've also been meaning to do that for Millcreek and keep forgetting.

I forgot about Magna's old town. Magna has a ton of potential, and they were lucky that as far as I know none of those old buildings were lost in the 2020 earthquake.

I know that it can be a touchy subject for some here, but I really do think Utah/LDS culture does a lot to hold back some of these old towns. Someone above mentioned Payson - it's a cute downtown (had to find it on Google Street View cause I've never driven through there) but what cultural attractions are Utah County willing to bring to their historic downtowns? I'm not saying it's impossible, but a lot of things that bring life back to these areas are not places that many people in Utah County or small Utah towns want, and that's just the reality whether people want to admit it or not.

[TheGeographer]

Just listened to a really cool podcast by Vox Today Explained called “Americas most successful downtown?” It’s about SLC and how it has been more successful than other cities in developing its downtown since the end of the pandemic. Also goes into the history of SLC and lots of other interesting things about downtown SLC. Also goes into the GSL drying up and how it could impact the future of Utah and SLC. It’s on Spotify or you can listen to it via the link here.

https://podmust.com/ep/?podcast=today-ex...mXMgbW9zdCBzdWNjZXNzZnVsIGRvd250b3duPw==

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

Just listened to a really cool podcast by Vox Today Explained called “Americas most successful downtown?” It’s about SLC and how it has been more successful than other cities in developing its downtown since the end of the pandemic. Also goes into the history of SLC and lots of other interesting things about downtown SLC. It’s on Spotify or you can listen to it via the link here.

https://podmust.com/ep/?podcast=today-ex...mXMgbW9zdCBzdWNjZXNzZnVsIGRvd250b3duPw==

Hopefully this isn't like the time everyone declared Salt Lake had ended homelessness.

In reality, I doubt Salt Lake has the most successful post-pandemic downtown. But they've done a good job overall.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Hopefully this isn't like the time everyone declared Salt Lake had ended homelessness.

In reality, I doubt Salt Lake has the most successful post-pandemic downtown. But they've done a good job overall.

I don’t think it’s necessary the “most successful” either. But does point to us doing a lot of things right. The GSL bit at the end was a little too optimistic for me in terms of us solving the water issues. Overall interesting listen