Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[TheGeographer]

I wish Logan was Ft. Collins. I’d move to Logan. I wish cities outside of SLC had an Old Town like Fort Collins or a Pearl Street mall like Boulder. Closest would be Park City or Moab. Feel like these comparisons are a bit of a reach, but I do think they’re fun to do. Colorado has some similarities to Utah geographically but they also have lots of differences having lived half my life in Colorado and the other half in Utah. Utah has tons of sugar drink shops, Colorado has tons of weed shops. Utah has better skiing and snow, Colorado has more mountains overall. Colorado doesn’t have many temples, Utah has many. Colorado roads 🞵🞵🞵🞵, Utah roads are better. Denver urban environment is more established, SLC is up and coming. Overall I can think of many similarities and differences. The differences are what I think make them unique and cool, and for me personally feel more different than the same.

[SLCHenry]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

^^^^

Lol I wish Sandy was like Bellevue.

Im moving to Bellevue soon, was just there this past weekend to checkout some apartments. God I can’t even imagine SLC ever getting to a Bellevue size (skyline wise)

[Atlas]

One thing that struck me about Colorado is how much healthier their random small towns are in general. Even excluding the ski towns, Utah doesn't really have thriving small towns like Leadville, Buena Vista, Windsor, Estes Park, Gunnison, Grand Lake, or Ouray to name a few. The closest equivalents are places like Panguitch, Milford, Helper, Ephraim, and Moab and I find these places to be pretty uninteresting and even depressed (except Moab).

Even the metro cities like Arvada, Loveland, Longmont have nice downtown areas with historic buildings. You don't really see that in the SLC metro for whatever reason. Murray and Midvale sorta have shells of what used to be downtowns, and Holladay and Millcreek are at least trying to build them.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Atlas

One thing that struck me about Colorado is how much healthier their random small towns are in general. Even excluding the ski towns, Utah doesn't really have thriving small towns like Leadville, Buena Vista, Windsor, Estes Park, Gunnison, Grand Lake, or Ouray to name a few. The closest equivalents are places like Panguitch, Milford, Helper, Ephraim, and Moab and I find these places to be pretty uninteresting and even depressed (except Moab).

Even the metro cities like Arvada, Loveland, Longmont have nice downtown areas with historic buildings. You don't really see that in the SLC metro for whatever reason. Murray and Midvale sorta have shells of what used to be downtowns, and Holladay and Millcreek are at least trying to build them.

That's largely because most those areas weren't in the shadows of Downtown Denver. Loveland is like Provo. Murray and Midvale are like 6 and 11 miles from the heart of downtown. I just don't think there was the population back then to support larger community centers. Remember, in 1940, Midvale had a population of only 2,875. Murray was a bit bigger at 5,740.

Most of their growth, though, came during the height of suburban sprawl.

[Atlas]

Granted, but Arvada, Littleton, and Golden all have nice little historic downtowns. These are 10-15 minutes from downtown Denver by car. Maybe it comes down to historic population counts, as you say.

Come to think of it, Utah doesn't really have an equivalent to Golden or a School of Mines/Technical University. The recent "Utah Tech" rebranding is a misnomer for that school.

[RC14]

^
I have noticed this about small towns in Utah. They tend to be quiet and boring, even for small towns. I have always attributed this to culture given that most of them are old Mormon settlements (don't have bars or saloons or anything like that.)
The obvious exception is Park City, which was, of course, a mining town.

As far as suburbs go, even Phoenix suburbs have more interesting city centers (Tempe, Scottsdale, Mesa). Of course, those are much larger then any Salt Lake City suburb.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by RC14

^
I have noticed this about small towns in Utah. They tend to be quiet and boring, even for small towns. I have always attributed this to culture given that most of them are old Mormon settlements (don't have bars or saloons or anything like that.)
The obvious exception is Park City, which was, of course, a mining town.

As far as suburbs go, even Phoenix suburbs have more interesting city centers (Tempe, Scottsdale, Mesa). Of course, those are much larger then any Salt Lake City suburb.

Park City and Moab are probably the only two small towns that have a vibe.

Maybe Cedar City and Logan with SUU and USU there.

[Paniolo Man]

Hot take:

Helper and Price are very far from boring.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by RC14

^
I have noticed this about small towns in Utah. They tend to be quiet and boring, even for small towns. I have always attributed this to culture given that most of them are old Mormon settlements (don't have bars or saloons or anything like that.)
The obvious exception is Park City, which was, of course, a mining town.

As far as suburbs go, even Phoenix suburbs have more interesting city centers (Tempe, Scottsdale, Mesa). Of course, those are much larger than any Salt Lake City suburb.

That’s a really interesting point I never thought about much before. If you go out further from Phoenix even areas like Gilbert, Chandler and Glendale have some pretty hopping/albeit small downtowns. Around the state you’ve got Cottonwood, Flagstaff, Preskitt (whiskey row), Jerome (ghost town). But besides Park City and Moab (which feels more like Sedona than the others I mentioned) the small towns are pretty blah. Is it really all the religious culture? Are there any exceptions were missing? I haven’t spent much time in Logan or Cache areas… St. George have anything going on these days?

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

^^^^

Lol I wish Sandy was like Bellevue.

I was about to say that’s quite a hot take… also SLC is like Seattle? Not sure I see the much resemblance there either.

[RC14]

^
I guess I didn't explain very well. I was referring to the relationship between the suburbs in the Seattle area vs the relationship between cities on the Wasatch front. Everett is Seattle's Ogden. It is about the same distance as SLC and Ogden, both are at the north end of the metro and both are blue caller cities with military bases. Bellevue is their Sandy and Lehi is our Redmond because it is a tech center.

My point is that the Puget Sound has develop in a way that resembles the Wasatch Front, just bigger.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Atlas

One thing that struck me about Colorado is how much healthier their random small towns are in general. Even excluding the ski towns, Utah doesn't really have thriving small towns like Leadville, Buena Vista, Windsor, Estes Park, Gunnison, Grand Lake, or Ouray to name a few. The closest equivalents are places like Panguitch, Milford, Helper, Ephraim, and Moab and I find these places to be pretty uninteresting and even depressed (except Moab).

Even the metro cities like Arvada, Loveland, Longmont have nice downtown areas with historic buildings. You don't really see that in the SLC metro for whatever reason. Murray and Midvale sorta have shells of what used to be downtowns, and Holladay and Millcreek are at least trying to build them.

Yes! You described this perfectly. This is what I miss about living in Colorado. Most towns have little historic downtowns with old buildings and thriving businesses. From Glenwood Springs to Manitou Springs to Ft. Collins there are many examples. Utah towns do not have this.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

Hot take:

Helper and Price are very far from boring.

Hot take but not untrue. I have noticed Price actually does have a historic downtown, which is different than many other Utah towns. Problem is it’s Price and not a small town destination to go to outside of driving thru on the way to Moab

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by RC14

^
I have noticed this about small towns in Utah. They tend to be quiet and boring, even for small towns. I have always attributed this to culture given that most of them are old Mormon settlements (don't have bars or saloons or anything like that.)
The obvious exception is Park City, which was, of course, a mining town.

As far as suburbs go, even Phoenix suburbs have more interesting city centers (Tempe, Scottsdale, Mesa). Of course, those are much larger then any Salt Lake City suburb.

Traditionally, Utahns in small towns have gathered and socialized in LDS church buildings rather than in cafes, pubs, community centers, etc. LDS people are usually overbooked with church meetings/activities/etc throughout the week. This is one of the reaons small Utah towns usually seem quiet and boring.

[wrendog]

Back to Raleigh... I think population wise, they are similar and just going off that, I wanted to see how their development was getting on.

Raleigh has 3 towers over 400 feet, including one at 538. SLC has 2 with one under construction
Raleigh has 2 towers from 300-400 feet. SLC has 12
Raleigh has 17 towers from 200-300 feet. SLC has 12 (not counting capitol, city building or temple)

So, they are pretty similar skyline wise right now with Raleigh have a taller tallest and SLC having more 200+ foot towers...

Now, looking at under construction and approved? Raleigh about to blow up and is destroying SLC

Raleigh has 8 towers over 200 feet currently under construction (shortest 213, tallest 380). SLC has 2 under construction (Astra, Convexity)

Raleigh has 27 (!) approved tower projects including multiple over 40 stories. And this doesn't include 13 or so 30 story towers that are planned for Shaw University right outside downtown. They also have 16 proposals that have not been approved yet.

SLC? 7 or so proposals.

Good for Raleigh. Jealous.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by locolife

That’s a really interesting point I never thought about much before. If you go out further from Phoenix even areas like Gilbert, Chandler and Glendale have some pretty hopping/albeit small downtowns. Around the state you’ve got Cottonwood, Flagstaff, Preskitt (whiskey row), Jerome (ghost town). But besides Park City and Moab (which feels more like Sedona than the others I mentioned) the small towns are pretty blah. Is it really all the religious culture? Are there any exceptions were missing? I haven’t spent much time in Logan or Cache areas… St. George have anything going on these days?

LDS culture is absolutely the reason why small Utah towns are sleepy and boring even by small town comparisons.

No offense to anybody who has a strong attachment to St George, but to me it has nothing going on at all. It doesn't feel like there's anything to do in the city itself - it's mostly young LDS families and retired elderly LDS couples who want to get away from the snow but still be part of the culture.

Logan has a lot of potential because it is a university town and it has preserved a fair amount of its old historic downtown, but again, its culture is extremely LDS and insular. And of course Utah State still has a significant LDS student base, though it at least gives it a bit of an underground culture.

I'm not all that familiar with Price, but at least visually it is probably the closest we get to having a small town historic vibe that's not also a tourist trap like Park City.

[i2theSKY]

Originally Posted by locolife

St. George have anything going on these days?

St George is still booming. They have recently held multiple Ironman competitions putting them on the world stage. https://www.ironman.com/im703-st-george They have also announced both the LPGA and PGA golf tournaments will be coming to the new world class Black Desert Resort golf course. https://www.blackdesertresort.com/ Below is an image of the huge and still under construction Desert Color community. Our sunny neighbor to the south has multiple big projects either under construction or in the works.

[RC14]

I put St George in a different category. I think it's too big to be considered a small town. St George is growing and has allot of potential. It's underrated in terms of natural beauty but punches below it's weight when it comes to vibrancy.

The town that hasn't been mentioned yet is Vernal. It seems to have more going on then other Utah small towns but still much less then Park City or Moab.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Park City and Moab are probably the only two small towns that have a vibe.

Maybe Cedar City and Logan with SUU and USU there.

The vibe in Cedar City is meth.

[i2theSKY]

I would also add Heber, Midway, and Kanab to the list of smaller cities that are doing well. All in beautiful locations, all have their own vibe.

Image from Midway


Image from Kanab