The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've ridden the O-Train underground segment this September for the first time in a while. While not shiny new I'd agree it isn't shabby and dirty at all.

Certainly less so than the Montreal metro, which yes I realize is a much older and larger system.

Well that's good to hear. Perhaps some people found it jarring to see the contrast between the newly-opened, immaculate stations and the weathered, lived-in stations after a couple years of normal usage.

[Doady]

Brampton Transit reached 210,200 boardings per weekday in second quarter of 2023, a 10% increase in just 3 months. Yikes.

With Brampton ridership increasing so rapidly, it is hard to believe Mississauga's ridership can be much higher since it is an older system. Mississauga is probably more like 220,000 or 230,000 per weekday.

Ottawa fell slightly to 238,100 boardings per weekday. However, TTC, STM, Calgary, Edmonton only saw slight increase, so no cause for alarm for Ottawa.

The biggest change was GO, almost doubled the weekday ridership in 3 months. GO is at around 70% of its pre-pandemic ridership now. TTC is still only 60%. Brampton is at 120%. Mississauga reached 101% in December 2022 so it is probably at 110% now.

https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023-Q2-APTA-Ridership.pdf

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Doady

Brampton Transit reached 210,200 boardings per weekday in second quarter of 2023, a 10% increase in just 3 months. Yikes.

With Brampton ridership increasing so rapidly, it is hard to believe Mississauga's ridership can be much higher since it is an older system. Mississauga is probably more like 220,000 or 230,000 per weekday.

Ottawa fell slightly to 238,100 boardings per weekday. However, TTC, STM, Calgary, Edmonton only saw slight increase, so no cause for alarm for Ottawa.

The biggest change was GO, almost doubled the weekday ridership in 3 months. GO is at around 70% of its pre-pandemic ridership now. TTC is still only 60%. Brampton is at 120%. Mississauga reached 101% in December 2022 so it is probably at 110% now.

https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uploads/2023-Q2-APTA-Ridership.pdf

It looks like Metro Vancouver's TransLink is above pre-pandemic ridership numbers now. Their 2022 Transit Service Performance Review shows system-wide monthly journeys in 2019 to be between 25 and 30 million, and the APTA doc you linked has April, May, and June 2023 to be above 30 million trips in each month.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It looks like Metro Vancouver's TransLink is above pre-pandemic ridership numbers now. Their 2022 Transit Service Performance Review shows system-wide monthly journeys in 2019 to be between 25 and 30 million, and the APTA doc you linked has April, May, and June 2023 to be above 30 million trips in each month.

Canadian numbers are revenue rides (linked trips, no transfers), while US numbers are boardings (unlinked trips, including transfers). Since the APTA numbers include transfers, they will be higher than any official numbers used by a Canadian agency.

You can see Translink says 28 million revenue riders in June 2019, but APTA says 38 million boardings. Comparing boardings in June 2023 vs June 2019, Translink reached 87% recovery.

[cranes]

https://twitter.com/GOExpansion/status/1707092775726944692

@GOExpansion Sep 27, 2023: Aerial view of the new south platform being constructed at #GuelphGO Station. This project is the first part of a program of works that will bring all-day, two-way service to the #KitchenerLine. More here: https://bit.ly/3LzbYhN

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've ridden the O-Train underground segment this September for the first time in a while. While not shiny new I'd agree it isn't shabby and dirty at all.

Certainly less so than the Montreal metro, which yes I realize is a much older and larger system.

Right, you shouldn't be able to compare a three-year-old system to one that is 30-60 years old, depending on the station.

The O-Train is certainly much shabbier than the Canada Line which is already more than a decade old.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've ridden the O-Train underground segment this September for the first time in a while. While not shiny new I'd agree it isn't shabby and dirty at all.

Certainly less so than the Montreal metro, which yes I realize is a much older and larger system.

Montreal metro definitely feels way less shabby and dirty than Toronto's subway stations, despite the similar age.

[Doady]

New enhanced bus shelters in Mississauga

...
These enhanced shelters offer several benefits:

• A larger shelter size – eight or 12 metres long compared to the standard four metres
• More seating available inside
• Signage that identifies the bus stop location
• Heated and enclosed shelter space for added comfort during colder weather
• Coming soon – digital screens with bus schedule information

...

I already noticed these while riding the Dixie bus. They say they will install more on along "MiWay’s express corridors" which they say are Erin Mills, Dixie, Derry, and Eglinton. But 104 Derry Express and 185 Dixie Express were cancelled due to COVID. And there has never been an Eglinton Express.

How long will people stay in the fancy shelter on Derry Road when the bus comes every 6 minutes. Who will need a digital display when they have a smartphone. "Enclosed shelter space" will require more cleaning too. Spadina has a streetcar its own ROW, and it has regular shelters.

[P'tit Renard]

Will this be another 11th hour crisis that brings the TTC and Toronto's transit system to its knees:

Warnings over Toronto’s aging Line 2 subway grow
https://globalnews.ca/news/10010963/warnings-over-torontos-aging-line-2-subway-grow/

[niwell]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Will this be another 11th hour crisis that brings the TTC and Toronto's transit system to its knees:

Warnings over Toronto’s aging Line 2 subway grow
https://globalnews.ca/news/10010963/warnings-over-torontos-aging-line-2-subway-grow/

It’s a manufactured crisis. This is the regular song and dance you need to do in Ontario to get higher level funding. See: “we have to shut down the Sheppard line” debacle a decade or so ago. There are also lots of other options as have been identified in the many studies done on this.

[Doady]

What was the previous 11th hour crisis? Hope you are not referring to that useless Scarborough RT that was already planned to be shut down and replaced by a subway extension.

"Line 2’s trains will begin reaching the end of their design life in 2026." Begin to. 3 years from now. Yeah, what a disaster. Meanwhile TTC has 127 Orion VII's that are 1 year away. Trains and buses get replaced eventually? Who knew.

[Nouvellecosse]

^ That's true but trains need time to be replaced. The buyer needs to start the procurement process and request bids, the OEMs need time to prepare and submit tenders, the TTC needs to then review the competing bids (assuming there's more than one) and make a selection. Then the trains need to be manufactured, transported, and subjected to extended testing as they're gradually delivered. And there needs to be time to address the nearly inevitable faults that arise during testing. If they need to start replacing the existing stock by 2026 and 2023 is mostly over, the should already be well underway. It isn't the same as buses where for the most part, buses are off the shelf and don't need to be manufactured for a specific track and loading gauge.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

^ That's true but trains need time to be replaced. The buyer needs to start the procurement process and request bids, the OEMs need time to prepare and submit tenders, the TTC needs to then review the competing bids (assuming there's more than one) and make a selection. Then the trains need to be manufactured, transported, and subjected to extended testing as they're gradually delivered. And there needs to be time to address the nearly inevitable faults that arise during testing. If they need to start replacing the existing stock by 2026 and 2023 is mostly over, the should already be well underway. It isn't the same as buses where for the most part, buses are off the shelf and don't need to be manufactured for a specific track and loading gauge.

Of course, replacing subway cars is more complicated and much more expensive compared to buses. The article says the process takes 3-4 years, so obviously it is time to start the process. But comparing that to what happened to the Scarborough RT, probably is not helpful.

[caltrane74]

Why is everyone acting like the new trains are going to go on Line 2 anyways?

We all know that all the new trains will go on LINE 1 and the leftovers will be sent to LINE 2. Isn't that how it always works?

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Why is everyone acting like the new trains are going to go on Line 2 anyways?

We all know that all the new trains will go on LINE 1 and the leftovers will be sent to LINE 2. Isn't that how it always works?

I don't think anyone was assuming anything one way or the other. If the issue is that the current stock on Line 2 needs to be replaced, whether they're replaced by brand new trains directly or by moving rocket trains from Line 1 after they're replaced by the new trains is sort of a distinction without a difference. The number of new trains required and the time frame in which they're need would be the same.

[superelevation]

Originally Posted by Doady

New enhanced bus shelters in Mississauga


I already noticed these while riding the Dixie bus. They say they will install more on along "MiWay’s express corridors" which they say are Erin Mills, Dixie, Derry, and Eglinton. But 104 Derry Express and 185 Dixie Express were cancelled due to COVID. And there has never been an Eglinton Express.

How long will people stay in the fancy shelter on Derry Road when the bus comes every 6 minutes. Who will need a digital display when they have a smartphone. "Enclosed shelter space" will require more cleaning too. Spadina has a streetcar its own ROW, and it has regular shelters.

God forbid we have nice shelters? Sitting in the rain or snow sucks for any length of time, and buses don't always come to schedule! (And your regular reminder not everyone has a charged phone that they want to take out to check the bus time)

The Spadina Streetcar is brutal, not a model for anything! TTC Should have shelters like this on major routes!

[someone123]

There have been some articles about Halifax transit ridership now exceeding the pre-pandemic peak of 2019.

It's interesting to think about what this means. It's significantly lower ridership per capita since there has been so much population growth. However, it shows that there's a lot of transit demand in spite of the many operational problems with the system:

- They still didn't implement tap or fare cards and require exact change even at ferry terminals (!). I believe the transit agency doesn't directly sell tickets or passes (you have to go to a reseller like a convenience store). It is actively hostile toward riders.
- They have lots of staffing issues and maybe have cut service.
- The province is refusing to invest in transit even though the municipality and federal government have agreed to invest.

Imagine how much ridership there would be if the system were competently run and got a reasonable level of capital investment. This generally fits the patterns of Canadians using transit a lot more than Americans in spite of mediocre to poor investment and often a not-so-great user experience with excessive passenger loads and so on. I think Canadian cities could usefully absorb a huge amount of transit investment.

[Kilgore Trout]

Meanwhile, the CAQ government in Quebec is playing hardball with transit agencies, suggesting it will cover only a fraction of their pandemic-induced deficits, which could lead to some pretty debilitating cutbacks in the next few years.

Bus service in Montreal is already significantly worse than it was 15 years ago. Any more cuts will send transit in this province into a death spiral.