Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

Just my opinion, but to consider that, is a direct slap in the face to Quebec.

Well yeah, I'd prefer Quebec City over Atlanta. Atlanta already had two chances. Time to give Quebec City it's second chance.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Raleigh is #2 in NHL attendance? Wow, how things have changed.

Benefit of an entertaining product as the only pro team in the city and also having a large capacity arena with no doubt, lots of cheap seats. The "Fan cost index" put them 8th from the bottom last year. Toronto was tops, followed surprisingly by Seattle and Vegas, for highest average costs of taking a family to a game. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...hockey-league/

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Benefit of an entertaining product as the only pro team in the city and also having a large capacity arena with no doubt, lots of cheap seats. The "Fan cost index" put them 8th from the bottom last year. Toronto was tops, followed surprisingly by Seattle and Vegas, for highest average costs of taking a family to a game. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...hockey-league/

With Ottawa just under the Hurricanes .

I'm really afraid that if the Sens move Downtown and (understandably) raise their prices, fans will stop coming.

[thurmas]

Charlotte Raleigh and Nashville will all give Montreal a tough time to land a mlb team as they love to do corporate stadium welfare in the southern u.s.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Well yeah, I'd prefer Quebec City over Atlanta. Atlanta already had two chances. Time to give Quebec City it's second chance.

The rumour mill is out of control right now. This one is RE Atlanta’s potential arena district (The Gathering at South Forsyth), which apparently got through state approvals. If true, the writing is on the wall at this point, given the NHL’s recent comments about Atlanta. Best hope for Quebec City is an expansion to 36 with two east/west pairs.

Kevin Weekes is the same journalist that originally hinted at Houston and Atlanta back in the spring.

[craner]

Originally Posted by thurmas

for what Montreal will need to spend this is what KC and the Royals and Tampa and the Rays will be building:

https://ballparkdigest.com/2023/08/2...ew-renderings/

I always loved Kaufman Stadium in KC - sorry to see they are going to replace it.
Are they planning to replace Arrowhead for the Chiefs too ?

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by craner

I always loved Kaufman Stadium in KC - sorry to see they are going to replace it.
Are they planning to replace Arrowhead for the Chiefs too ?

No chiefs owner wants to stay at Arrowhead and renovate it and use Kaufman stadium grounds as grounds for chiefs training ect...

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Key Arena (now Climate Pledge Arena) cost 1.15B USD to renovate... in 2021... and that's an arena, not a larger than average stadium. The only way renovating the Big O will cost less than 2B CAD is if they cut a lot of corners and are left with very underwhelming results.

It cost a billion because they had to protect the roof. It would have been $700 million or so without having to work around it. Calgary is spending $800 million on an arena which will be larger than Seattle's arena.

As for a 35,000 seat outdoor stadium in Montreal, I suspect the cost has crept up to the $1 billion mark or so (depending on land acquisition costs). Kansas City' proposal of a $2billion development which includes a stadium would see the $1 billion going towards the development surrounding the stadium, not the stadium itself. Tampa's proposal is $1.3 billion but is pretty posh and completely enclosed likely adding hundreds of millions to the budget.

I can see a MLB expansion team going for no more than $2 Billion US given the estimated values of the typical MLB team.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...h=7ce061876501

MLB revenues are not exactly increasing in a significant way like the revenues of the NFL and NBA.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

It cost a billion because they had to protect the roof. It would have been $700 million or so without having to work around it. Calgary is spending $800 million on an arena which will be larger than Seattle's arena.

As for a 35,000 seat outdoor stadium in Montreal, I suspect the cost has crept up to the $1 billion mark or so (depending on land acquisition costs). Kansas City' proposal of a $2billion development which includes a stadium would see the $1 billion going towards the development surrounding the stadium, not the stadium itself. Tampa's proposal is $1.3 billion but is pretty posh and completely enclosed likely adding hundreds of millions to the budget.

I can see a MLB expansion team going for no more than $2 Billion US given the estimated values of the typical MLB team.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...h=7ce061876501

MLB revenues are not exactly increasing in a significant way like the revenues of the NFL and NBA.

Mlb attendance was up 9.6% this year the pitch clock made games 30 minutes faster this year which really helped attendance

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Benefit of an entertaining product as the only pro team in the city and also having a large capacity arena with no doubt, lots of cheap seats. The "Fan cost index" put them 8th from the bottom last year. Toronto was tops, followed surprisingly by Seattle and Vegas, for highest average costs of taking a family to a game. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...hockey-league/

Carolina's attendance was boosted by nearly 1000/game due to their stadium game last year. With that said, they average around 18,000 per game which is still impressive.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by thurmas

No chiefs owner wants to stay at Arrowhead and renovate it and use Kaufman stadium grounds as grounds for chiefs training ect...

Yes, and I wonder if the owner would also want to look at a stadium district as well to further maximize his revenues - retail, hotel, other entertainment, bars, offices, condos. Seems to be current trend with NFL/MLB teams.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Mlb attendance was up 9.6% this year the pitch clock made games 30 minutes faster this year which really helped attendance

Yes, but attendance is still down from 6 or 7 years ago. That boost is deceptive as people were hesitant to be in public places in 2022 as COVID was still a thing. MLB revenues haven't really increased all that much in the past 5 - 10 years compared to the NFL and NBA. It's just not as popular as it used to be a decade ago. The only wealthy countries it has a foothold are Japan and South Korea. All the other countries where interest is notable are poor and small.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by elly63

I don't know about that, only the NFL seems to be restrictive about that and getting less restrictive IIRC

All the leagues have to be less restrictive about it if they want franchise values to keep going up like they are.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Yes, and I wonder if the owner would also want to look at a stadium district as well to further maximize his revenues - retail, hotel, other entertainment, bars, offices, condos. Seems to be current trend with NFL/MLB teams.

I wonder how well that would work given their location. The property has interstates on 2 sides and is completely car centric and miles from really much of anything. I don't know if a lone NFL stadium has the same "district" type of potential as MLB or arenas do unless you actually build it within a downtown or near downtown location. The Royals will be able to create such a district around their new park because it will be downtown. Not sure the Chiefs can give up the parking to build condos etc there.

[ned]

A tender has been put out for rehabilitation of Commonwealth Stadium. While the following tender link does not give specifics, rumour has it that crowd flow, washrooms and signage will be addressed. The mayor was wanting a $185 million facelift and this is likely peanuts compared to that, but it is good to see the start of items from the recently completed master plan be addressed.
https://vendor.purchasingconnection....8-39c2ed480000
https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/sohi-ask...ades-1.6243170

[craner]

I sure wish Calgary would do something with McMahon

[elly63]

Originally Posted by craner

I sure wish Calgary would do something with McMahon

Even though I hate the thought of throwing any money at something that should be started anew, I'd rather the $180 million (or whatever it ends up) go to Calgary. I get the new arena and all that but until it is built Edmonton has the newer arena and stadium.

$180 million used to go a long way, I wonder what specifically that will get for Commonwealth now.

[Base]

https://globalnews.ca/news/10007181/...es-arena-deal/

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by elly63

Even though I hate the thought of throwing any money at something that should be started anew, I'd rather the $180 million (or whatever it ends up) go to Calgary. I get the new arena and all that but until it is built Edmonton has the newer arena and stadium.

$180 million used to go a long way, I wonder what specifically that will get for Commonwealth now.

Calgary's getting $330 mil for the arena from the province. I think it's Edmonton's turn, especially since the province contributed next to nothing for Rogers Place. Along the same lines, I'm still waiting the Edmonton hospital break ground. The one that was promised in 2015, which will be the first new hospital since 1989. I'm sure the McMahon replacement will be announced in roughly 4 years from now, just in time for UCP vote buying.

[J.OT13]

Huge downgrade of Lansdowne Park 2.0 in exchange for... a higher price tag.

Before:



Now:



https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...y-87-1-million

The interior still seems nice. Value engineering will likely come after the approval process.