CF Pacific Centre Developments

[madog222]

Originally Posted by s211

I shouldn't have to remind anybody bemoaning CF delays that there was a little thing called COVID? The impact on pretty much ALL hotel proposals was massive on a world-wide basis.

The development permit was submitted December 2021, you can't blame this on Covid.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by madog222

The development permit was submitted December 2021, you can't blame this on Covid.

They started stripping out the old hotel early in 2020, immediately after the Four Season closed in January. They then submitted their DP in December 2021, and it was approved in June 2022. Presumably they were in no hurry to sort anything out in 2020 or early 2021 - which was when Covid caused a big drop in hotel occupancy.

Now demand for hotel rooms is apparently back, but there are several other approved projects not yet moving forward. The Park on Broadway has been closed, but not yet demolished or replaced and there's another approved West Broadway hotel that hasn't been developed yet. Only Amacon's The Block, and Onni's conversion of The Level are immediately likely to add rooms (and the latter is just legalizing an existing unauthorized hotel use). The Block is likely to be three years away - they've just started piling round the edges of the facade they're retaining.

[whatnext]

Why does CF keep insisting on a first class excellence, ie a luxury hotel? Just an ego thing? It is literally lodging over the shops. A good solid business hotel would be just as effective and I assume would pay a similar rent.

[jollyburger]

Or luxury hotels can charge more and pay a higher rent.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Or luxury hotels can charge more and pay a higher rent.

Luxury hotels also have higher costs

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Why does CF keep insisting on a first class excellence, ie a luxury hotel? Just an ego thing? It is literally lodging over the shops. A good solid business hotel would be just as effective and I assume would pay a similar rent.

[jollyburger]

Random FOI request

I am responding to your request of July 25, 2023 under the Freedom of Information and
Protection of Privacy Act for:

Record of report (or any other document) to Council that explains the sale of 701
W Georgia (Pacific Centre, Block 42, Reference Plan 10328, District Lot 541 Plan
210) to Cadillac Fairview in 2015 for $8,365,000. Date range: January 1, 2014 to
February 19, 2015.

We have completed the search for responsive records for this request and no responsive
records have been located. Real Estate Services noted there is no record of a report or any other document to Council, as the sale of Block 42 was by way of an Option to Purchase for a predetermined amount that was set out in the Ground Lease entered into between the City and Pacific Centre e Limited in 1970, and that exercising the Option to Purchase required no report to Council.

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2023-449-release.pdf

Pacific Centre Leaseholds first brought up the issues with the hotel in June 2015.

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/ca/...or-not-being-luxurious-enough-87858.aspx

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Changing City

imagine if the original idea of a motel parking-in-front-of-rooms was built. pretty sure they'd be having a seizure.

[officedweller]

CF repositioned Pacific Centre to be a luxury mall, so presumably it's consistent with that theme (though I don't think anyone would have considered Four Seasons ordinary. Tired, probably, but still higher end).
Depending on who replaces Nordstrom, I wonder if the luxury theme would be reconsidered.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by officedweller

CF repositioned Pacific Centre to be a luxury mall, so presumably it's consistent with that theme (though I don't think anyone would have considered Four Seasons ordinary. Tired, probably, but still higher end).
Depending on who replaces Nordstrom, I wonder if the luxury theme would be reconsidered.

Personally, I'd love to see Nordstrom's re[place by something like Nieman Marcus (a virtual impossibility, it seems) or Harrods, perhaps even Printemps, or something high-end to 'dynamize" the PC mall...

[SpongeG]

Maybe an Asian brand dept store like hyundai or lotte

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Maybe an Asian brand dept store like hyundai or lotte

no thanks.

[C3YVR]

Originally Posted by whatnext

One has to wonder how much revenue CF has foregone since Four Seasons closed.

Using the BIV numbers for average July rate and occupancy in Vancouver this year (which would be very low daily rates if the hotel was still a Four Seasons) the hotel would have had room revenue of $41,587.297 this year. (329.3 occ x 346 rate x 365 days) . Occupancy and rates would vary over the year with July and Aug being the highest but the low room rate likely off sets what the Four Seasons could have charged (likely min $500/nt).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by C3YVR

Using the BIV numbers for average July rate and occupancy in Vancouver this year (which would be very low daily rates if the hotel was still a Four Seasons) the hotel would have had room revenue of $41,587.297 this year. (329.3 occ x 346 rate x 365 days) . Occupancy and rates would vary over the year with July and Aug being the highest but the low room rate likely off sets what the Four Seasons could have charged (likely min $500/nt).

Thanks! I was looking for a room for a family member in July and was shocked at room rates at even standard properties.

[NewfBC]

Maybe it's time for Primark to enter Canada! Very popular in Europe and the US now. Also owned by the Westons. They could put a Primark and an Eately in there.. and then some.

Ron.

[s211]

Originally Posted by C3YVR

Using the BIV numbers for average July rate and occupancy in Vancouver this year (which would be very low daily rates if the hotel was still a Four Seasons) the hotel would have had room revenue of $41,587.297 this year. (329.3 occ x 346 rate x 365 days) . Occupancy and rates would vary over the year with July and Aug being the highest but the low room rate likely off sets what the Four Seasons could have charged (likely min $500/nt).

CF would not own and operate the hotel. They would probably be doing either an operational agreement or leasehold of the core and shell. I would think they would go for the latter.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Maybe it's time for Primark to enter Canada! Very popular in Europe and the US now. Also owned by the Westons. They could put a Primark and an Eately in there.. and then some.

Ron.

The Primark on Oxford St is a zoo! The value pricing would be a hit with Canadians. I had no idea the Westons owned that as well.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The Primark on Oxford St is a zoo! The value pricing would be a hit with Canadians. I had no idea the Westons owned that as well.

Primarks in North America tend to be smaller though. It would be nice to see a place where the average person could shop though. Sears and Eatons were more middle class than Nordstrom.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Primarks in North America tend to be smaller though. It would be nice to see a place where the average person could shop though. Sears and Eatons were more middle class than Nordstrom.

Middle class selections get slaughtered here. Its either fast fashion, off price or designer. Nordstrom was successful here because it was largely a more premium offering with a curated selection of mid price pieces, Holts store is the most successful in the country IIRC. If you visited Nordstrom in Calgary, or go down and visit the store in Lynnwood, it is more geared towards the middle class shopper that isn't solely hunting for labels.

The bay is a prime example, now one could criticize how they run their business (its rather depressing etc in there). But compare Holt to the Bay on an average day, anecdotally, Holt is far busier. I would question how successful the simons store actualy is in West Van. But it always surprises me that Park Royal isnt more premium.

I would assume that the earliest you could see a replacement in nordstrom is at least 2026? Would be nice to hear some leaks on what is in talks there as I am sure that is well under way.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If it was a 'perfectly good hotel building', why would CF spend tens of millions of dollars on fixing it up?

Vanity?

And it still hasn't improved from before. In fact, it looks worse now.