PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by TK2001

Okay I'm making it

[TK2001]

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Here's the future massing. The Mark, 3200 Market, 3201 Cuthbert, and even International House's Target addition is included on here. Also, some of the smaller buildings from the 1800's have more detail to show of the architecture. Please let me know If I missed anything.

Future view from The Mark amenity level by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

It's great to see the infill. Funny how almost all of the new buildings except the comcast towers are between 400 and 600 feet. I wonder why that is.

I'm kinda bummed we don't have more towers along the BSL that are between 250 and 600 feet.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by TK2001

Here's the future massing. The Mark, 3200 Market, 3201 Cuthbert, and even International House's Target addition is included on here. Also, some of the smaller buildings from the 1800's have more detail to show of the architecture. Please let me know If I missed anything.

TK posts of the best work we've ever seen.

Yo TK seriously you are the shit. No way you put that together, that is some great work.

I now must examine.

Great fuckin work

[TK2001]

No, I'm the man with the plan! I will say ever since I saw the renderings of 3201 Cuthbert, I actually couldn't figure out exactly how it was placed. But these models help me out a lot and I hope they help everyone too

[ColdJay64]

A new luxury tower in Philadelphia is mostly empty. What does that say about the city’s high-end condo market?

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate/housing/real-estate-high-end-city-apartments-20231003.html

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by ColdJay64

A new luxury tower in Philadelphia is mostly empty. What does that say about the city’s high-end condo market?

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate/housing/real-estate-high-end-city-apartments-20231003.html

Title is misleading, which will of course make the internet trolls happy.

While Arthaus is apparently having issues (I wonder if sales are that low), the luxury condo market in Philadelphia at-large is decently healthy. The Laurel is over 50% sold, 2100 Hamilton is 70% sold. and The Dilworth project is moving forward. Separately, the luxury rental units in The Laurel are 90% leased.

Per the article, so far this year there have been 14 $4M condo sales, and 3 more pending, not a gloomy statistic.
Kristen Foote, a high-end Realtor with the brokerage Compass, notes that in 2018, only one condo in Center City sold for over $5 million. Already this year, seven have sold for that price or more, and another seven for $4 million (with a three others pending).

Also, a personal annoyance, but must the writer compare the Philadelphia condo market to New York & Miami? Completely different markets, and an irrelevant comparison. The condo market in Philadelphia should be compared to DC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran, Atlanta.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Title is misleading, which will of course make the internet trolls happy.

While Arthaus is apparently having issues (I wonder if sales are actually that low), the luxury condo market in Philadelphia at-large is decently healthy. The Laurel is over 50% sold, 2100 Hamilton is 70% sold. and The Dilworth project is moving forward. Separately, the luxury rental units in The Laurel are 90% leased.

Per the article, so far this year there have been 14 $4M condo sales, and 3 more pending, not a gloomy statistic.
Kristen Foote, a high-end Realtor with the brokerage Compass, notes that in 2018, only one condo in Center City sold for over $5 million. Already this year, seven have sold for that price or more, and another seven for $4 million (with a three others pending).

Also, a personal annoyance, but must the writer compare the Philadelphia condo market to New York & Miami? Completely different markets, and an irrelevant comparison. The condo market in Philadelphia should be compared to DC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran, Atlanta.

I doubt sales are actually that low, it says only 15% have sold "according to property records." However OPA doesn't update very often. It was over a year after I bought my place until it showed up on OPA's website.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Also, a personal annoyance, but must the writer compare the Philadelphia condo market to New York & Miami? Completely different markets, and an irrelevant comparison. The condo market in Philadelphia should be compared to DC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran, Atlanta.

All good counter-points. Also, I have a hard time believing the luxury condo market hasn't had some degree of a slowdown in pretty much every large city. The pandemic-driven real estate frenzy has been cooling for like all of 2023 across the US. And high interest rates are clearly putting a strangle-hold on everything. And uncertainty about the economy generally isn't helping.

It's the supposition that these trends are unique to Philly that gets annoying in these kinds of articles, when they clearly aren't.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

I doubt sales are actually that low, it says only 15% have sold "according to property records." However OPA doesn't update very often. It was over a year after I bought my place until it showed up on OPA's website.

They said deed records, not necessarily the OPA site- and even that site typically updates within a couple of months. I dont know that info that people find undesirable makes an article "bad" or "biased". If the developer wont give you any details, the public record is the logical place to look for sales data. I'm pretty sure the picture they are painting is accurate in terms of low sales, Dranoffs's defensive response basically confirms that.

[JohnIII]

Really love these; especially diagrams 5,6,7, and possibly 8; they show the true scope the Philadelphia Urban Core and when you can see these developments from Philadelphia International Airport or Philadelphia Northeast Airport it really shows the growth the city has seen.

Also key to mention that from the northeast the development in Northern Liberties and Temple University factor into the growth.

With all of these diagrams many of these projects are also within the realm of possibility; they are not questionable for the immediate future like say the consideration of a 1200' tower at 29th and Arch Street. The diagram shows what is very likely for Philadelphia in the near future and that as skyscraper lovers are dreams would probably have a good starting point at these views.

Originally Posted by TK2001

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Future West Philadelphia massing by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

Here's the future massing. The Mark, 3200 Market, 3201 Cuthbert, and even International House's Target addition is included on here. Also, some of the smaller buildings from the 1800's have more detail to show of the architecture. Please let me know If I missed anything.

Future view from The Mark amenity level by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by cardeza

They said deed records, not necessarily the OPA site- and even that site typically updates within a couple of months. I dont know that info that people find undesirable makes an article "bad" or "biased". If the developer wont give you any details, the public record is the logical place to look for sales data. I'm pretty sure the picture they are painting is accurate in terms of low sales, Dranoffs's defensive response basically confirms that.

The title is still misleading (but that brings in clicks and comments).

The Philly condo market (as detailed in the article) appears to be doing fine, despite current market factors, and Arthaus seems to be the exception (likely because of location). My other critique was the useless comparison to New York and Miami.

I figured Arthaus sales were low compared to The Laurel, but jeez, 15% is not good. Still a beautiful project though, and wide open amenity spaces for the current residents.

[reparcsyks]

Society Hill Towers were empty for years -- I had a friend who was paid to turn on/off lights at night so units would look inhabited. Arthaus will be fine - it may take longer than projected, but it will fill up.

If Philly/Dranoff is keen on making this area of the city as desirable as RIttenhouse, they'll need to prove it. Landscape the median with beautiful planters, etc. Curb the ATVs. Make the area feel safer at night. And just give it an overall polish. Do they not understand how rich people think??

My biggest gripe about Philly is that it never follows the lead of every other successful city. No one is asking you to innovate, just copy what works.

[BroadandMarket]

Broad Street is just totally different than even 2 blocks in either direction. It's loud 24/7 because of the subway/dirt bike guys. And then the Broad Street ministry is next door to the Arthaus. They are doing admirable work but people don't want to pay millions of dollars and be greeted with that every time they leave their front door. There are always people sleeping on the steps, littering and drug use. I agree though, landscape the medians, stop the ATVs and dirt bikes with speed bumps, raised crosswalks and cobblestone streets.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

Broad Street is just totally different than even 2 blocks in either direction. It's loud 24/7 because of the subway/dirt bike guys. And then the Broad Street ministry is next door to the Arthaus. They are doing admirable work but people don't want to pay millions of dollars and be greeted with that every time they leave their front door. There are always people sleeping on the steps, littering and drug use. I agree though, landscape the medians, stop the ATVs and dirt bikes with speed bumps, raised crosswalks and cobblestone streets.

Yeah -- like it isn't rocket science or experimentation. Just. Freaking. Copy. What. Already. Works.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

The title is still misleading (but that brings in clicks and comments).

The Philly condo market (as detailed in the article) appears to be doing fine, despite current market factors, and Arthaus seems to be the exception (likely because of location). My other critique was the useless comparison to New York and Miami.

I figured Arthaus sales were low compared to The Laurel, but jeez, 15% is not good. Still a beautiful project though, and wide open amenity spaces for the current residents.

This Statement was also very weird & I'm not sure if it's even remotely true.

Arthaus’ slower sales can be attributed in part to the relatively small size of the luxury market in Philadelphia, which has always paled in comparison to cities like Miami and New York. More recent spikes in interest rates and pandemic era crises, such as an increase in crime, caused a retreat of some suburban buyers from Philly’s already small market.

I'm not sure if I believe that the luxury market in all cities across the USA are from "Suburban buyers"

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by BroadandMarket

Broad Street is just totally different than even 2 blocks in either direction. It's loud 24/7 because of the subway/dirt bike guys. And then the Broad Street ministry is next door to the Arthaus. They are doing admirable work but people don't want to pay millions of dollars and be greeted with that every time they leave their front door. There are always people sleeping on the steps, littering and drug use. I agree though, landscape the medians, stop the ATVs and dirt bikes with speed bumps, raised crosswalks and cobblestone streets.

Ehhh, That area of Broad St is taken care of very well, you have the Kimmel across the street, The UA next to that, multiple other high class buildings next to those, and its sandwiched between Spruce, and Pine.

While I'll agree that the ministry has some unsavory characters in front of it sometimes, that is one of the least frustrating centers in the area, compare it to 8th & market and its lovely.

Upkeep and QOL isn't an issue in that area, its actually high class.

Noise is an issue I can agree with, but with that building being so new, and expensive I think the windows are insulated well enough, we're not talking about an overbuild on an old warehouse here with some cheap windows, this place is millions of dollars, but I could be wrong about that.

DJI_0024 by Tony Valuez, on Flickr

DJI_0027 by Tony Valuez, on Flickr

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Ehhh, That area of Broad St is taken care of very well,
Upkeep and QOL isn't an issue in that area, its actually high class.

Gotta say, as someone who goes through quite a lot, I disagree. For example, the lack of sidewalk maintenance is extremely apparent compared to years ago. They were put down with that original design that looked great, but all the patches and wear since then looks awful, except of course in front of new buildings where they redid the sidewalks. The raised crosswalks are nice a bit north, but honestly everything else about S Broad is pretty awful now. The whole thing needs a refresh, but I haven't heard of one even in the works so I'm sure it won't happen any time soon. With the Laurel and Parkway building in competition for the same price range, who would spend millions of dollars to have Broad St at their doorstep?

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Gotta say, as someone who goes through quite a lot, I disagree. For example, the lack of sidewalk maintenance is extremely apparent compared to years ago. They were put down with that original design that looked great, but all the patches and wear since then looks awful, except of course in front of new buildings where they redid the sidewalks. The raised crosswalks are nice a bit north, but honestly everything else about S Broad is pretty awful now. The whole thing needs a refresh, but I haven't heard of one even in the works so I'm sure it won't happen any time soon. With the Laurel and Parkway building in competition for the same price range, who would spend millions of dollars to have Broad St at their doorstep?

I also have to disagree, as someone who also frequents the area on foot, and in vehicle for years.

Broad St has the least amount of sidewalk issues in the city, we're not talking about a side block in N Philly here.

So please if you have some examples please show, I walked that area not too long ago, and the sidewalks were in the best condition, and the cleanest in the city.

[el don]

If I had a mil to spend on a place ain't no way I'm spending it to live right next to a stop on the vagabond Express. Imagine scheduling a tour and that is the first thing you see (broad Street ministry).