CHICAGO | General Discussions

[moorhosj1]

Originally Posted by Handro

We need all the immigrants we can get. The city is fumbling this golden opportunity right now by not getting these people a foundation for a successful life here more quickly. Now the latest is that they are paying $29m for these dumb tent cities to the same company that Florida is using to ship migrants all over the country... can't make this up.

The tents are exactly what Denver and NYC have done to relieve the pressure on other resources. What is your solution for a very large group of people who cannot legally work and need to wait until they have a government hearing before their status can change?

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by twister244

All good points..... And it's not like Chicago doesn't have the room to accommodate people. Shit, if anything, In the long run, this could be something to spark some rejuvenation in parts of the South side. The thought of having a South American cultural enclave embedded somewhere on the South side sounds like a really cool thing. We have a sizeable Mexican presence across parts of the city, but (correct me if I'm wrong), there isn't nearly a S. American presence here.

With all due respect to the South side… immigration is their only hope.

Even assuming that nobody moves to the suburbs, to other neighborhoods, or to other cities (impossible), there is barely enough youth population to make up for the current number of elderly residents.

There would need to be a mass migration from Detroit, St. Louis, or the South, and that’s just not happening.

There’s no restoring South side neighborhoods without more population. Even wealthy households remaining at the current population would struggle to support retail.



Black Alone - B01001B ACS
Total: 736,230

0-4: 40,255
5-14: 90,815
15-24: 90,755
25-34: 114,529
35-44: 92,722
45-54: 88,045
55-64: 93,558
65-74: 75,258
75-84: 36,709
85+: 13,584

<17: 158,996
65+: 125,551

[ChiMIchael]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

With all due respect to the South side… immigration is their only hope.

Even assuming that nobody moves to the suburbs, to other neighborhoods, or to other cities (impossible), there is barely enough youth population to make up for the current number of elderly residents.

There would need to be a mass migration from Detroit, St. Louis, or the South, and that’s just not happening.

There’s no restoring South side neighborhoods without more population. Even wealthy households remaining at the current population would struggle to support retail.



Black Alone - B01001B ACS
Total: 736,230

0-4: 40,255
5-14: 90,815
15-24: 90,755
25-34: 114,529
35-44: 92,722
45-54: 88,045
55-64: 93,558
65-74: 75,258
75-84: 36,709
85+: 13,584

<17: 158,996
65+: 125,551

No you're right. I think many of the residents want to hold out for some utopia that's not realistic in the way they would like it. I feel sorry for the older residents that want to maintain the culture and history of their communities, but there's not enough young people who upholds that value.

[Coastal Elitist]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Honestly, I have no problems with it. I feel a personal connection to these refugees. My family escaped and survived literal mass murder in their town, their house getting burned down 3 times, and also getting bombed in a field by the army. And also sleeping in hollow graves during winter to evade capture and sleeping in thr barns of farmers who secretly took them (and many others like my family in) just so they could walk to another country to get on a boat to come to the US. Because this was better than what they were subjected to where they were living. This is not much different than what's going on with some of these refugees in essence. The difference is my.family was from Europe. There was shit along their way -- some in the federal government used people like my family as an example of "dirty, poor uneducated people" to call for immigration quotas and stop letting people in. Well guess what? Out of that part of my family came many successful business owners, doctors, lawyers, etc. Even a UN ambassador to multiple central and South American countries came out of this side of my family. They came here with almost $0 - just a dream to escape from the violence where they came.from. And they were able to get on their feet because the fucking federal government didn't block them for months or years on end to legally work. Unlike what's happening for decades.

My wife came.to America a decade or.so ago and is now a citizen. I work with and employ many people here on visa or green card. The federal government makes it near impossible for anyone to even be here. We are a capitalist country and yet people cry at "immigrants stealing my job." Sorry but if you are for capitalism then you have no reason to bitch about that part.

But the key thing is our attitudes to immigration and federal policy has put unnecessary strain on local governments and other organizations to foot a bill because they cannot even legally work for literal months and potentially over a year or 2.

Wonderful post. Completely agreed.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by moorhosj1

The tents are exactly what Denver and NYC have done to relieve the pressure on other resources. What is your solution for a very large group of people who cannot legally work and need to wait until they have a government hearing before their status can change?

Personally, I would simply escalate the nullification that's already going on with the sanctuary city policy (or the actions of Govs Scott and DeSantis). Put these migrants on the city payroll essentially. Pay them to clean up parks, clear vacant lots, pick up litter. We have no shortage of needed projects to improve our city. Better yet, put them to work building housing. Or find left-leaning private employers who are willing to flaunt the law. At the very least, stop shutting down migrants trying to earn a few bucks cutting hair or selling tamales. The Fox News set will have a field day, but they already hate Chicago passionately so who gives a f*ck?

Of course, it's not just the MAGA types - *everyone* will hate this idea except a few urbanists on this forum. Labor will hate it because they are enjoying their record-high wages and don't want competition driving wages down. The city's Black and Latino communities will hate it because most of them are citizens or at least here legally, and the city is not handing out jobs to them. White people just don't want the city getting browner. I admit the Latino community is maybe more nuanced on the migrant issue, but many/most Latino Chicagoans nowadays were born here and they would love to get city jobs before the recent arrivals do...

[Chi-Sky21]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/m...151400747.html

[Randomguy34]

Chicago is starting to receive almost the same amount of daily buses as New York City, with 7 sent on Sunday and 8 sent yesterday (CBS). Johnson's chief of staff predicted back in August such an increase as an attempt to embarrass the city during the DNC (Sun-Times). A shame that they continue being used as political pawns.

If Chicago does end up receiving the same number of buses as NYC, that's potentially 100k new residents in the upcoming year. This might result in Chicago's fastest population growth in history.

[Chi-Sky21]

Not sure you want that kind of population growth. Not only do we have to foot the bill and expend resources we do not have a ton of, but there is no guarantee they even get to get asylum and stay. Honestly, all need to be stopped AT the border and wait someplace else to get processed. I have no problem with allowing more immigrants in. We can increase the quotas. But letting 100s of thousands of people come in unvetted and with no personal resources is pure lunacy.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Chicago is starting to receive almost the same amount of daily buses as New York City, with 7 sent on Sunday and 8 sent yesterday (CBS). Johnson's chief of staff predicted back in August such an increase as an attempt to embarrass the city during the DNC (Sun-Times). A shame that they continue being used as political pawns.

If Chicago does end up receiving the same number of buses as NYC, that's potentially 100k new residents in the upcoming year. This might result in Chicago's fastest population growth in history.

I don’t know if I’m comfortable with blaming it all on politics.

It may have started out that way, but I think there’s a strong chance Chicago is in fact one of the best available options, and the circumstances have now aligned for a full blown 19th century-like migration.

California: Ungodly expensive, no housing

New York: Ungodly expensive, no housing, 30-60 day shelter evictions

Florida: Expensive, lowest wages, politically hostile

Texas: Makes little children crawl through barbed wire



Then there’s the contrast to Chicago:

Housing: Lots of affordable apartments
Economy: Decent, fairly low unemployment for Chicago
Schools: A hundred thousand empty seats
Politics: Accepting to neutral
Language: Large Spanish speaking population

How many alternatives actually exist in the U.S. with that combo? Not very many. And migrants are people too.

There has got to be a large network of friends, family members, nonprofits, churches, ect established over the past year that believe Chicago is a very real option for their future.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Not sure you want that kind of population growth. Not only do we have to foot the bill and expend resources we do not have a ton of, but there is no guarantee they even get to get asylum and stay. Honestly, all need to be stopped AT the border and wait someplace else to get processed. I have no problem with allowing more immigrants in. We can increase the quotas. But letting 100s of thousands of people come in unvetted and with no personal resources is pure lunacy.

Chicagoans 1850: Not sure if we want that kind of population growth.

Look, we’re talking millions of migrants to the U.S. in the foreseeable future, and we are probably well past the point where deportation is an actionable plan.

Chicago is the city that historically turned millions of resource-less people into middle-class Americans, and we struggle deeply in times of low immigration, because native born Americans outside the Midwest were rarely motivated to move to Chicago.

I wouldn’t bet a dime that the U.S. will ever increase legal immigration quotas.

And it’s hard to understate how much Chicago has the Mexican population (many of whom were not exactly legal either) to thank for much of its existing relative stability compared to other rust belt cities.

[Chisouthside]

Very good points Galleyfox.
I mightve mentioned it before but Ive had a couple uber drivers from venezuela that came here on their own volition from Florida. And have already seen numerous venezuelans working alongside mexicans in various eateries/supermarkets on the southwest side.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

I don’t know if I’m comfortable with blaming it all on politics.

It may have started out that way, but I think there’s a strong chance Chicago is in fact one of the best available options, and the circumstances have now aligned for a full blown 19th century-like migration.

California: Ungodly expensive, no housing
New York: Ungodly expensive, no housing, 30-60 day shelter evictions
Florida: Expensive, lowest wages, politically hostile
Texas: Makes little children crawl through barbed wire

Then there’s the contrast to Chicago:

Housing: Lots of affordable apartments
Economy: Decent, fairly low unemployment for Chicago
Schools: A hundred thousand empty seats
Politics: Accepting to neutral
Language: Large Spanish speaking population

How many alternatives actually exist in the U.S. with that combo? Not very many. And migrants are people too.

There has got to be a large network of friends, family members, nonprofits, churches, ect established over the past year that believe Chicago is a very real option for their future.

I agree. . . Chicago makes sense. . . we're big enough to absorb the influx, and if done correctly, could show how Chicago really takes the Sanctuary City moniker seriously. . .

That being said, I'm not sure our existing administration in this city is able or even willing to look at this as an opportunity rather than a problem to be politicized. . .

. . .

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

I agree. . . Chicago makes sense. . . we're big enough to absorb the influx, and if done correctly, could show how Chicago really takes the Sanctuary City moniker seriously. . .

That being said, I'm not sure our existing administration in this city is able or even willing to look at this as an opportunity rather than a problem to be politicized. . .

. . .

I mean…probably not.

But governments have never been good at central planning or determining outcomes, and the Chicago governments of the past weren’t shining exemplars of managing immigration either.

This is all about whether the city, meaning the regular people, can adapt, and whether people who had the will and daring to journey across a dangerous continent can make their own futures.

But if the people of the 1800s could do it under worse circumstances, then I’m not crying doom over current ones.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Not sure you want that kind of population growth. Not only do we have to foot the bill and expend resources we do not have a ton of, but there is no guarantee they even get to get asylum and stay. Honestly, all need to be stopped AT the border and wait someplace else to get processed. I have no problem with allowing more immigrants in. We can increase the quotas. But letting 100s of thousands of people come in unvetted and with no personal resources is pure lunacy.

This is kinda how I feel. I'm all for immigration to the city, and in the long run, there will probably be some good things that come out of this for the city, but the way it's being done is not good. The city is scrambling to deal with it because it's essentially being dumped in our backyard as a result of the Federal Government failing to allocate resources. Immigration is good, dumping migrants off into tents at the police station, airport, and random lots around the city is not.

[Steely Dan]

Like all rust belt cities, Chicago needs all of the living human bodies it can get.

White people and black people have decided that they don't wanna live here anymore.

So fuck 'em.

Bring on the SA migrants!

Beggars can't be choosers.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Like all rust belt cities, Chicago needs all of the living human bodies it can get.

White people and black people have decided that they don't wanna live here anymore.

So fuck 'em.

Bring on the SA migrants!

Beggars can't be choosers.

I find it interesting that a lot of people in Chicago lament the population loss, but it’s paired with complete forgetfulness about what the decades of population growth were really like.

Chicago’s immigrants of those times didn’t just hop off the train with a lease, a job, and a drink.



If Christ Came to Chicago, 1894

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Not sure you want that kind of population growth. Not only do we have to foot the bill and expend resources we do not have a ton of, but there is no guarantee they even get to get asylum and stay. Honestly, all need to be stopped AT the border and wait someplace else to get processed. I have no problem with allowing more immigrants in. We can increase the quotas. But letting 100s of thousands of people come in unvetted and with no personal resources is pure lunacy.

Which is why what Biden signed the other day is extremely important. Migrants being able to work sooner means that they rely less on government aid meaning that cities like Chicago and NYC can scale back how much aid they have to give out. Really not that hard to see. 75-100+ years ago this is how things worked. My ancestors could work instantly and make money legally in this country day 1. These days you have to jump through 500 hoops and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait. Then you try and get paid by either working illegally or you do something illegally that doesn't involve working but crime. There have apparently been more Ukrainian refugees enter the Chicago area in the last year than Venezuelans, but the Ukrainians are better suited economically. They have much more in savings - it sucks because again they have to wait MONTHS to work but they need less aid than most from Venezuela.

Originally Posted by twister244

This is kinda how I feel. I'm all for immigration to the city, and in the long run, there will probably be some good things that come out of this for the city, but the way it's being done is not good. The city is scrambling to deal with it because it's essentially being dumped in our backyard as a result of the Federal Government failing to allocate resources. Immigration is good, dumping migrants off into tents at the police station, airport, and random lots around the city is not.

Well, the Federal Government is/was using years and years old work auth policy which puts onus on local/state governments to foot the bill. Texas is mainly the ones dumping them onto Chicago. I honestly don't mind because I think immigration makes things in the long run much better. People are pissed at Texas, and it's shitty what they're doing, but I get it. They're getting slammed and have been for awhile. The feds aren't helping them with anything (and look, it's Texas - did they ask?). The point of them shipping migrants to other states is also so those other states can feel their pain. The influx is a lot but also, this is what NYC deal with in some ways in the late 1800s thru early 1900s. They were able to deal with it but areas like Lower East Side, where most went into, were abysmal places. Extremely poor conditions and absolutely packed. But out of that, years later, came amazing things. Many people really did take advantage of their new freedoms.

Anyway, I think what Abbott has done has been pretty effective but I'd have to think that Abbott is hating the fact that Biden is expediting work auth for nearly 500K Venezuelans. Part of his motive is to definitely get these places to raise taxes even more and get various people to move out and into his state. There are plenty of places AFAIK in town that can use help that doesn't even require much if any English skills. We may not see them be upwardly mobile for 10-20 years but it will come. I grew up in the 90s with some other refugee groups and have seen that play out myself including with some of my childhood friends who were refugees, came to the US young, and now are college educated, have great jobs that pay well, etc.

[ithakas]

Thanks to everyone for this discussion, especially galleyfox—it's helped contextualize the situation a bit differently than a lot of coverage so far, and put it in perspective with what's historically fueled the city's greatness.

Something that frustrated me about this past mayoral cycle, and a lot of recent discourse about the city in general, has been a focus on managing decline, rather than the opportunity to grow the city's population again. My main concern is that in the short-term this situation will require real visionary leadership.

Speaking of which, can anyone recommend any texts on the financing mechanisms for housing that immigrant communities used a century ago?

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by ithakas

Speaking of which, can anyone recommend any texts on the financing mechanisms for housing that immigrant communities used a century ago?

Boarding/lodging houses and piling 8+ people into a 1 bedroom apartment? My family was all in NYC and its area but still The side of my family that was very very dirt poor had my great grandpa come here first. He stayed in a cheap boarding house outside NYC and sent home almost everything he earned to my great grandma and family so they could join (took 10 years due to WW1 breaking out, mass murder in their town and fleeing on foot secretly and walking to another country, etc). Once the rest of the family joined a decade later, they eventually got a house to themselves. I think stories like this were decently common. I have been doing genealogy for years and I've seen tons of ships manifests where men came alone, to work. They came here with nothing, so those cheap boarding houses were very important. I think someone on another side of my family even turned part of their home into a boarding house for 5 immigrants.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by ithakas

Thanks to everyone for this discussion, especially galleyfox—it's helped contextualize the situation a bit differently than a lot of coverage so far, and put it in perspective with what's historically fueled the city's greatness.

Something that frustrated me about this past mayoral cycle, and a lot of recent discourse about the city in general, has been a focus on managing decline, rather than the opportunity to grow the city's population again. My main concern is that in the short-term this situation will require real visionary leadership.

Speaking of which, can anyone recommend any texts on the financing mechanisms for housing that immigrant communities used a century ago?

Typically, a male member of the family arrived first in Chicago. They would book a spot in a lodging house (10c per day). There could be anywhere from 10 to 200 people sharing a space.

Back then, there was a custom in Chicago called the “free lunch”. You could operate a saloon selling liquor in exchange for free soups and meals for guests which new immigrants and homeless depended on. In short, the bars were the food banks of the time, so Prohibition later was a complete outrage.

If an immigrant found work, they could join a labor union which would support them if they became unemployed, and between the union, the church and the employer, an immigrant could find an apartment and eventually save up money and get a recommendation for a property loan.

To get approved for a loan at a bank, an immigrant would have to make consistent deposits until they had a sufficient down payment, but it was mostly dependent on how much the bank valued the customer and their connections.

Insurance Companies and Real Estate Bonds were also ways of financing construction.

So, best case scenario Mrs. Palmer’s attaché writes a letter stating that her dear loyal servant needs a loan. Realistically, a community bank operated by previous immigrants who made it.

In the meantime, the rest of the family and interested relatives would follow.