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  #1421  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2023, 4:05 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
Now, even if both of our kids aged out of daycare and we magically had another $2500 extra every month we wouldn’t want to pay $4500 per month for a mortgage. This just feels so stupid. How can prices stay high when people can’t afford to buy? WTF gives? How could this market realistically stay this way at 7+ percent?
Interest rates will come down in the next recession... which might happen pretty soon.
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  #1422  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2023, 4:12 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I’m 99% sure he’s from Michigan, so the suggestion is to move BACK to the Midwest (not sure whether his wife is from there though; I remember that when I was dating a Yankee from northern New England I floated the idea of us moving to Detroit for real estate opportunity and it was a very firm No way!!!! on her part.)
Indeed I am, thought I’ve been in Oregon since 2015. Yeah, I keep floating that idea to my west coast-born wife and she emphatically says “hell no” every time. I feel like I might be an outlier in staying. A lot of people I know from the Midwest have moved back or are planning to do so. Of course unlike us, they missed buying while prices were lower.
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  #1423  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2023, 4:17 PM
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The North One The North One is offline
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Indeed I am, thought I’ve been in Oregon since 2015. Yeah, I keep floating that idea to my west coast-born wife and she emphatically says “hell no” every time. I feel like I might be an outlier in staying. A lot of people I know from the Midwest have moved back or are planning to do so. Of course unlike us, they missed buying while prices were lower.
Unless her whole family is in Portland, why is she so against it?

Not surprising, people will talk 🞵🞵🞵🞵 but almost everybody from Michigan comes back eventually.
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  #1424  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2023, 4:17 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post

As for me, we're in our "forever home", so I'm "trapped" here too, but in the good way.

If I never own another piece of real estate in my life, I'm all good with that.
I envy you. I'm trying my best to just tell myself "this too shall pass".
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  #1425  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2023, 4:20 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Unless her whole family is in Portland, why is she so against it?

Not surprising, people will talk 🞵🞵🞵🞵 but almost everybody from Michigan comes back eventually.
I like Michigan a lot, but yeah, her whole family is in the Portland area. That's pretty much the whole thing. But she also hates snow. I don't mind it.
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  #1426  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2023, 4:26 PM
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The North One The North One is offline
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I like Michigan a lot, but yeah, her whole family is in the Portland area. That's pretty much the whole thing. But she also hates snow. I don't mind it.
That makes sense. Maybe get her family to move too.

No offense, but in a nice place in Oakland County, you'd be living better for sure.
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  #1427  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2023, 4:42 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Detroit barely gets any snow. But the “I want my family around” aspect is a good argument.

You could argue that from the point of view of your couple having its relatives nearby, Oregon and Michigan are tied… one of you has to accept to be far away from where you grew up. Why should it be you?
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  #1428  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 12:03 AM
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I feel like my wife and I are trapped in a house we don’t want to be in. I know we’re not alone. We planned to ride out our current situation until our two kids were no longer in daycare and then buy a better house in a better neighborhood. Alas, that won’t be happening at 7% interest.

To move into a house that we’d actually want to live in, we’re looking at about $650-700k in metro Portland. At today’s interest rates, PITI would TRIPLE for us, even with a couple hundred grand as a down payment.

It’s difficult to not feel very bitter about this. We are two highly educated people making a good living but we feel like we’re just locked into this life where we don’t want to live. I cannot imagine how people making median income or less are feeling.

Now, even if both of our kids aged out of daycare and we magically had another $2500 extra every month we wouldn’t want to pay $4500 per month for a mortgage. This just feels so stupid. How can prices stay high when people can’t afford to buy? WTF gives? How could this market realistically stay this way at 7+ percent?
I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I'm not sure this is reasonable. You admit you can afford a nice house in a nice neighborhood in Portland, but don't want to pay that much. That's fine, but it has nothing to do with affordability. You just have some figure in your head beyond which you refuse to pay.

And 650-700k doesn't sound remotely outrageous for a nice family-sized suburban home in a major city on the West Coast. It actually sounds pretty reasonable. And if you think you're getting a nice suburban house in a good area for a lot cheaper in Metro Detroit, think again. My brother, who lives in a nice Detroit suburb, paid a lot more than that, for a pretty average home in the Northville, MI area.

Granted, Northville is an extremely nice area, but I think you're overestimating the Midwest discount, at least in the big metros. He sold his old home in South Lyon, which is not remotely as nice, for around 600k. The only Midwest metros with better/larger job markets than Portland would be Chicago, Minneapolis and Detroit, and I don't think you'll get a nice family-sized home in a nice suburb for less than you're estimating for Portland.
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  #1429  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 1:47 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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It took me exactly 30 seconds to find a house over 3 times as large as mine, in much better condition, in Royal Oak for about a hundred grand less than what my 1200 square foot house would sell for today. With $200k down, the mortgage would be much more reasonable.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/202-W...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
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  #1430  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 2:44 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Or how about this incredible house in Grosse Pointe Park for $433k?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1105-...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
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  #1431  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 2:47 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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  #1432  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 2:56 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
It took me exactly 30 seconds to find a house over 3 times as large as mine, in much better condition, in Royal Oak for about a hundred grand less than what my 1200 square foot house would sell for today. With $200k down, the mortgage would be much more reasonable.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/202-W...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
Are you factoring in mediocre schools and extremely high taxes? Royal Oak is no one's idea of a top-performing school district. It's most popular with childless couples. I wouldn't put my kid in their schools.

And the nice part of Royal Oak, around Vinsetta Boulevard, will generally have 500k+ homes. Yes, cheaper than Portland, but I think you're overestimating the discount.
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  #1433  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 3:02 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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I grew up in Bloomfield Hills. This is next to the freeway, a major rail line, and a large auto plant. It's basically Pontiac. You'll hear truck traffic 24/7.

I'll take the Royal Oak home. I wouldn't live next to I-75 for free.
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  #1434  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 3:02 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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You and I have different opinions on schools, but here’s a house in Novi (ranked #1 in Michigan by Niche) for $574k:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/28826...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
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  #1435  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 3:05 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
Or how about this incredible house in Grosse Pointe Park for $433k?

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1105-...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
Grosse Pointe is cheap these days. Forget about appreciation, but if you want a nice house on a beautiful block for cheap, and don't care about appreciation, yes, it's an option.
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  #1436  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 3:07 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
You and I have different opinions on schools, but here’s a house in Novi (ranked #1 in Michigan by Niche) for $574k:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/28826...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
Nope, this is Walled Lake schools. Not a good district.

If it were in Novi Schools, it would be 100k more. If it were in Northville Schools, it would be 250k more. Northville Schools are probably the most desirable in the state these days.
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  #1437  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 3:14 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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There’s no trying with you. I just put up several houses in top 10 school districts and you’ll always find something wrong. The fact remains that houses are several hundred thousand cheaper, especially in those size ranges, compared to good schools districts here. Here’s what a 2,000 sq foot house costs in the best school public district in Oregon:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16020...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
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  #1438  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 4:13 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Nope, this is Walled Lake schools. Not a good district.

If it were in Novi Schools, it would be 100k more. If it were in Northville Schools, it would be 250k more. Northville Schools are probably the most desirable in the state these days.
Novi High School. 4/3. 3,120 sq. ft. $529k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23959...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

Athens H.S., Troy. 4/3. 3,160 sq. ft. $500k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2231-...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

Bloomfield Hills. 4/3. 4118 sq. ft. $579k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5743-...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

Bloomfield Hills. 5/3. 3,300 sq. ft. $499k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1963-...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

All of those houses are in the same price range as my neighborhood, which is essentially a low-income neighborhood. So yes, there is a wild difference and the Midwest discount still exists. And as far as pay differentials go, I currently get paid about 10% more here, but the state income tax is 50% higher and the property taxes are high, too. I pay almost double in property taxes as that last house in Bloomfield Hills.
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  #1439  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 1:57 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
I envy you. I'm trying my best to just tell myself "this too shall pass".
Yeah we got very lucky in our timing, no doubt, purchasing our home 6 years ago for $420K before 🞵🞵🞵🞵 started going all cuckoo.

Taking the median value estimate from Zillow/redfin/realtor.com, our home is now worth ~$555K, which is a price we would've balked at 6 years ago.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Sep 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM.
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  #1440  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2023, 2:55 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
There’s no trying with you. I just put up several houses in top 10 school districts and you’ll always find something wrong. The fact remains that houses are several hundred thousand cheaper, especially in those size ranges, compared to good schools districts here. Here’s what a 2,000 sq foot house costs in the best school public district in Oregon:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16020...&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare
Lake Oswego and Birmingham are almost sister cities, and the homes seem pretty similarly priced. My sister lives in Bloomfield Village area (Birmingham Schools) and there is basically nothing under $1 million. Even granny homes that need everything sell for about that.

But this wasn't my point.

I never wrote "there are no cheap homes in good school districts in MI". There are. MI has cheap RE costs, no question. There are always deals, somewhere.

I responded to your claim that 650-700k was an unacceptably high amount to pay for a family-sized suburban house in a good school district. That is a very common price range in upper middle class suburban America, these days, MI included.

You can always find a house with problems. You listed one home next to a factory/freeway, and two with inferior schools. Those homes will sell too. Some family will find them perfectly acceptable. I'm just indicating why they're priced below market. A "normal" house in the Bloomfield Hills school district won't sell for anything around 450k. Try twice that price. That's one of the most expensive areas between the coasts.

Also, you're implying that moving to a lower-cost market means you pay less for housing. This isn't what typically happens. The research indicates that people pay around the same, they just buy more square footage, leveraging the lower costs. When someone moves from Connecticut to Alabama, they don't buy a home 1/2 the price, they buy a home 2x the size. They're already established a threshold for what they're comfortable paying.

Also, you have to factor long-term costs. Property taxes and utility prices will be higher in MI. Are you ok with a lower return over time. When my parents bought their MI house, my aunt bought a CA house roughly the same time for around 2x the price. Right now, the CA house is probably around 8x the value. This means my aunt can fund her retirement and her two kid's financial security purely via her home value, and my parents can't. Which was really a better deal?
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