Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

The Halifax Wanderers of the CPL want to build a permanent stadium on the site of their temporary field in downtown Halifax.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-...site-1.6554965

I can understand the appeal of this idea for the Wanderers. The club is well supported and appears to have become a fixture on the Halifax sports scene. They could probably make a lot more money with a proper venue as compared to the temporary one they are using now. The article does cite local opposition to using what is a park space for this purpose, but I'm not sure how much of an obstacle that will be.

One thing I am curious about is the long-term viability of the CPL in light of all the drama going on with the Canadian men's and women's national teams and Canada Soccer Business? Right now the CSB pipeline is flowing money to the CPL but what if that changes? At this point only the Wanderers, Forge and maybe a couple other teams at most appear to be solidly viable. I wonder what the fallback plan would be for Halifax if the CPL falls apart?

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Wow very nice indeed! I am very happy for Calgarians, here's to building an excellent venue for our Calgary friends.

I'll believe it when I see it. My expectations are below rock bottom.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I'll believe it when I see it. My expectations are below rock bottom.

I thought the 'O' in O-tacular stood for optimism?

I am hopeful it is inexpensive (not cheap), but modern and well executed.

[craner]

Originally Posted by esquire

The Halifax Wanderers of the CPL want to build a permanent stadium on the site of their temporary field in downtown Halifax.

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-...site-1.6554965

I can understand the appeal of this idea for the Wanderers. The club is well supported and appears to have become a fixture on the Halifax sports scene. They could probably make a lot more money with a proper venue as compared to the temporary one they are using now. The article does cite local opposition to using what is a park space for this purpose, but I'm not sure how much of an obstacle that will be.

One thing I am curious about is the long-term viability of the CPL in light of all the drama going on with the Canadian men's and women's national teams and Canada Soccer Business? Right now the CSB pipeline is flowing money to the CPL but what if that changes? At this point only the Wanderers, Forge and maybe a couple other teams at most appear to be solidly viable. I wonder what the fallback plan would be for Halifax if the CPL falls apart?

Cooperation with the Schooners please.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by craner

Cooperation with the Schooners please.

Schooners no longer exist they died after covid-19

[someone123]

Originally Posted by esquire

I can understand the appeal of this idea for the Wanderers. The club is well supported and appears to have become a fixture on the Halifax sports scene. They could probably make a lot more money with a proper venue as compared to the temporary one they are using now. The article does cite local opposition to using what is a park space for this purpose, but I'm not sure how much of an obstacle that will be.

One thing I am curious about is the long-term viability of the CPL in light of all the drama going on with the Canadian men's and women's national teams and Canada Soccer Business? Right now the CSB pipeline is flowing money to the CPL but what if that changes? At this point only the Wanderers, Forge and maybe a couple other teams at most appear to be solidly viable. I wonder what the fallback plan would be for Halifax if the CPL falls apart?

The opposition is probably the "Friends of the ____" groups that seem to have a handful of members and argue for everything to be left however it was in 1970. They don't have much of a track record of winning their battles but the media often treat them like they're on par with municipal councillors.

I think the Wanderers stadium would be so small and basic that it barely needs a fallback. There are so many events that could justify a facility of that nature. There's no comparable outdoor venue in the city, and it makes sense for the municipality to manage it and share it with many groups rather than have a Wanderers-specific facility.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think the Wanderers stadium would be so small and basic that it barely needs a fallback. There are so many events that could justify a facility of that nature. There's no comparable outdoor venue in the city, and it makes sense for the municipality to manage it and share it with many groups rather than have a Wanderers-specific facility.

That's a good point, given the stadium site and the scale of the CPL, I'm assuming that a new Wanderers stadium would be in the 5,000-10,000 seat range. That size of venue could be used by a relatively wide range of teams and events and would provide a good basic civic amenity that doesn't really exist right now.

[q12]

More here:

https://hfxwanderersfc.canpl.ca/wanderers-grounds

[thurmas]

Who would fund it though especially when the league is on such shaky ground?

[ScreamingViking]

My mind (twisted as it is) always goes to this when I read the name Wanderers... it's been ages since I've seen the film, but I remember watching it with my dad as a teen. (no offense to Wanderers fans! these are just musings related to my warped sense of humour)

• Video Link

• Video Link


And then there's also this (and yes, 'There's rhythm in my lederhosen'):

• Video Link

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I thought the 'O' in O-tacular stood for optimism?

I am hopeful it is inexpensive (not cheap), but modern and well executed.

Not when it comes to the Flames or their horrible owners.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Who would fund it though especially when the league is on such shaky ground?

I believe they’re asking for the city to pay for it, at least initially.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Who would fund it though especially when the league is on such shaky ground?

You can see in one of the renderings they show a concert which is deliberate. It is being sold as a municipally-run community event space that hosts the Wanderers as a primary tenant. The city doesn't really have any large outdoor spaces with permanent facilities like power and washrooms for tens of thousands of people.

I think the proposed cost is $40M which is very little for the municipality (capital spending alone in 2022/2023 is around $330M) and less than they've committed in the past for stadium projects (CWG and FIFA Women's Cup) that didn't have a tenant lined up.

[blueandgoldguy]

Pretty underwhelming stadium in the concept drawings...and concepts are usually nicer than what eventually gets built. 2 stands with one end appearing to have some cheap-looking ground level suites or loges. Then you have one side running the length of the field with no seats. And this will cost $40 million!? It certainly doesn't look like an 8,000 seater either.

Saskatoon's concept drawing for their now-cancelled stadium featured seating on all 4 sides and would have cost $30 million.

If this gets built kiss any chances of a CFL team goodbye.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

If this gets built kiss any chances of a CFL team goodbye.

Why?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Pretty underwhelming stadium in the concept drawings...and concepts are usually nicer than what eventually gets built. 2 stands with one end appearing to have some cheap-looking ground level suites or loges. Then you have one side running the length of the field with no seats. And this will cost $40 million!? It certainly doesn't look like an 8,000 seater either.

Saskatoon's concept drawing for their now-cancelled stadium featured seating on all 4 sides and would have cost $30 million.

If this gets built kiss any chances of a CFL team goodbye.

Yeah, too bad they can't up it up to 20k so Halifax may have a chance for some CFL. If they build this, with little room for expansion (unsure if there's enough space or not), no way the City would build a second, larger stadium.

[ericmacm]

Hate to say it but I think the CFL is going to have to get used to the idea of putting teams in smaller stadiums around 10k if they want to expand into new markets. Nobody (public entities or private groups) is going to build a brand new 20k+ stadium in a mid-sized market for a league with declining prestige and stagnant franchise valuations. As far as the Wanderers grounds go, it will ultimately be able to host football (as there are removable endzones in the renderings) so I think despite the seating capacity, the CFL should be looking into it because this is by far their best option in the area.

I like the vision that the Wanderers have here, but I think it isn’t really that ambitious for $40M. I think they should be looking more into what Starlight Stadium is doing in Langford. Their most recent expansion from 6k to 10k is only estimated to cost $8.5M (but it will likely cost a bit more than that now though). I suspect the reason for the significant price difference, however, is related to utility servicing costs.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Hate to say it but I think the CFL is going to have to get used to the idea of putting teams in smaller stadiums around 10k if they want to expand into new markets. Nobody (public entities or private groups) is going to build a brand new 20k+ stadium in a mid-sized market for a league with declining prestige and stagnant franchise valuations. As far as the Wanderers grounds go, it will ultimately be able to host football (as there are removable endzones in the renderings) so I think despite the seating capacity, the CFL should be looking into it because this is by far their best option in the area.

I like the vision that the Wanderers have here, but I think it isn’t really that ambitious for $40M. I think they should be looking more into what Starlight Stadium is doing in Langford. Their most recent expansion from 6k to 10k is only estimated to cost $8.5M (but it will likely cost a bit more than that now though). I suspect the reason for the significant price difference, however, is related to utility servicing costs.

Will never happen costs 25 million a year to run a cfl team on average 10000 seats generates too little in revenue not worth expansion at any cost

[elly63]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Hate to say it but I think the CFL is going to have to get used to the idea of putting teams in smaller stadiums around 10k if they want to expand into new markets. Nobody (public entities or private groups) is going to build a brand new 20k+ stadium in a mid-sized market for a league with declining prestige and stagnant franchise valuations. As far as the Wanderers grounds go, it will ultimately be able to host football (as there are removable endzones in the renderings) so I think despite the seating capacity, the CFL should be looking into it because this is by far their best option in the area.

I like the vision that the Wanderers have here, but I think it isn’t really that ambitious for $40M.

Do you think that the city is going to put $40 million into this without considering the CFL who they've been in contact with all along?

As for declining prestige and franchise valuations, tell me since when has someone got into the CFL to sell the franchise at a profit. That was the same crap 'ol Christmas Tree in Toronto tried to sell the league on and align with the great XFL that fortunately no one bought into.

It might be time to look into SMU who are very interested in getting involved. Aside from the Wanderers Grounds being a location in the city centre, it's not like SMU is that far away and it also has a bunch of potential ticket buyers very handy looking for an excuse to drink on the weekend without having to go too far..

The CFL if it has to go it alone can start out with a pop up stadium just as they have with Touchdown Atlantic. If they can come to an agreement with SMU they could be entitled to federal money when the time comes to build a more permanent solution. If we go back to the previous stadium concept, they were going to align with Sport Nova Scotia and other groups, Rugby NS etc.

[someone123]

We will see how it goes but I think people will generally like this proposal. The basic view will be that the soccer games have been a hit and the city kind of needs some outdoor venue. It would be unfortunate if this gets derailed for hypothetical CFL plans.

In the long run I'm not sure there's really a strong reason why there couldn't be this stadium plus another one at SMU. One of the articles covering this pointed out that the city doesn't have enough artificial turf fields (that allow a higher throughput of events without needing time for recovery) and planned to build more.

One thing I wonder is if the stadium alignment on the Wanderers site and the space around it should be adjusted. The street next to it basically looks how it has always looked and has, for example, a row of parking meters but is a block away from multiple large parking garages. This could be turned into a narrower mixed transit-pedestrian street that serves as an event plaza and interface between the Wanderers Grounds and Public Gardens.