Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by phil235

The last time the tournament was in Ottawa, every pool B game was north of 9000 attendance.

From what I remember ticket packages for the 2009 tournament (last one in Ottawa) included all the games at both arenas. This inflated the ticket sales numbers but people went along with it to ensure they had all the Canada games. This led to lots of tickets being available for resale for games at the Civic Centre. I know I paid very little (< $10 per ticket) for the Sweden vs Russia game I went to.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by LarryW

From what I remember ticket packages for the 2009 tournament (last one in Ottawa) included all the games at both arenas. This inflated the ticket sales numbers but people went along with it to ensure they had all the Canada games. This led to lots of tickets being available for resale for games at the Civic Centre. I know I paid very little (< $10 per ticket) for the Sweden vs Russia game I went to.

Yeah, that's right, they did. They sold out the games at the Civic Centre largely based on packages, but not all of the seats were necessarily full for all of the games.

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

Yes. I think a better solution is for OSEG to build its condos and a new half stadium at Lansdowne and a 7000-8000 seat junior arena at another site close to a LRT station like Hurdman, or somewhere else on the LRT line.

We would definitely get a better (and likely cheaper) arena if we built somewhere else. That said, the arena hosts by far the most events at Lansdowne, so taking it away would undermine the vibrancy of the site and the viability of the project.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by LarryW

From what I remember ticket packages for the 2009 tournament (last one in Ottawa) included all the games at both arenas. This inflated the ticket sales numbers but people went along with it to ensure they had all the Canada games. This led to lots of tickets being available for resale for games at the Civic Centre. I know I paid very little (< $10 per ticket) for the Sweden vs Russia game I went to.

This is really win win though. Unless they adopt some dynamic pricing system the re-sellers dump the games for great prices and make bank on Canada games. The Tickpick/ Stubhub prices for the final in Halifax were $1k+. Latvia Austria. $5.

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

This is really win win though. Unless they adopt some dynamic pricing system the re-sellers dump the games for great prices and make bank on Canada games. The Tickpick/ Stubhub prices for the final in Halifax were $1k+. Latvia Austria. $5.

The reason I made my post was to clarify that even though the reported attendance for the games at the Civic Centre was > 9000 that was only a result of forcing people to buy tickets to those games as part of the full package. Some people appeared to be using that >9000 number as a true attendance number when discussing the size of the proposed new arena at Lansdowne.

I don't agree that it's a win for the consumer when they are forced to buy tickets they don't want in order to get tickets they do want. It was strictly done to boost the overall ticket sales ("record attendance").

[phil235]

Originally Posted by LarryW

The reason I made my post was to clarify that even though the reported attendance for the games at the Civic Centre was > 9000 that was only a result of forcing people to buy tickets to those games as part of the full package. Some people appeared to be using that >9000 number as a true attendance number when discussing the size of the proposed new arena at Lansdowne.

I was using it to illustrate the tickets sold/revenue difference. Whether used or not, those tickets were sold and factored into the amount of revenue generated. It was the same out in Kanata (or at any tournament that sells packages) - lots of people didn’t use tickets to less popular games.

Since they only ever give paid attendance, hard to know for sure how many people actually attended each game. I went to several of the Civic Centre games that were quite full, and definitely north of 5k. Sweden-Russia for sure.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Very strange how OSEG insists that the Civic Centre can no longer host major international events while we're hosting the World Males Curling Championship and trying to bid on the World Juniors. Truly an arena past its prime. Unsalvageable!!

TD Place will be hosting FIVB Volleyball Nations League again in June, as well. It's a good facility but it's lacking a lot of revenue drivers that even smaller arenas have, namely premium seating and suites. I would wager that even at 5K with suites the revenue would be more-or-less even to what they're getting today at 10K standard seats. Wouldn't be far off, anyway.

It's a big downgrade only in that the city is losing a medium-sized venue for events specifically like the World Men's Curling or FIVB Nations League. Those events aren't big enough to go into 15K arenas but are too big to go into 5K arenas (generally). By downsizing the arena for condos OSEG is moving themselves out of that market of events, to say nothing of the occasional concert or show they would get as well. Ottawa will be lacking a medium-sized venue at that stage.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by JHikka

TD Place will be hosting FIVB Volleyball Nations League again in June, as well. It's a good facility but it's lacking a lot of revenue drivers that even smaller arenas have, namely premium seating and suites. I would wager that even at 5K with suites the revenue would be more-or-less even to what they're getting today at 10K standard seats. Wouldn't be far off, anyway.

It's a big downgrade only in that the city is losing a medium-sized venue for events specifically like the World Men's Curling or FIVB Nations League. Those events aren't big enough to go into 15K arenas but are too big to go into 5K arenas (generally). By downsizing the arena for condos OSEG is moving themselves out of that market of events, to say nothing of the occasional concert or show they would get as well. Ottawa will be lacking a medium-sized venue at that stage.

The curling championships were held in Lethbridge in 2019 in a 5k arena.

[acottawa]

If a downtown arena is ever built they could just close of the upper section to get a smaller capacity that doesn’t look empty. It seems to be a fairly common practice.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

If a downtown arena is ever built they could just close of the upper section to get a smaller capacity that doesn’t look empty. It seems to be a fairly common practice.

Was thinking the same thing. I think the downtown arena would be fine for those types of events.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by JHikka

TD Place will be hosting FIVB Volleyball Nations League again in June, as well. It's a good facility but it's lacking a lot of revenue drivers that even smaller arenas have, namely premium seating and suites. I would wager that even at 5K with suites the revenue would be more-or-less even to what they're getting today at 10K standard seats. Wouldn't be far off, anyway.

It's a big downgrade only in that the city is losing a medium-sized venue for events specifically like the World Men's Curling or FIVB Nations League. Those events aren't big enough to go into 15K arenas but are too big to go into 5K arenas (generally). By downsizing the arena for condos OSEG is moving themselves out of that market of events, to say nothing of the occasional concert or show they would get as well. Ottawa will be lacking a medium-sized venue at that stage.

They are reducing overall arena space for the 5k arena, but they will also have another entertainment venue space that is 27,617 s.f. This will allow them to host more small and medium scale events.

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by phil235

I was using it to illustrate the tickets sold/revenue difference. Whether used or not, those tickets were sold and factored into the amount of revenue generated.

They could get the same revenue by pricing the desired tickets higher (e.g. Canada games) and lowering the price of the less desired ones. I think people who bought full packages essentially showed that they would pay almost as much for a "Canada-only" package (& they wouldn't be stuck trying to resell or give away the tickets they didn't really want).

I know why tournament organizers like the full package approach. It makes their life easier at the expense of their best customers (the full package buyers). I just wish the public would push back more instead of accepting it.

[Ottawacurious]

The City will host a virtual public information and consultation session on Thursday, April 27, 2023, at 6:00pm. The topics for this session will include: the overall proposal, the funding strategy and business model, and the air rights process including the Request for Expressions of Interest (REOI). Staff will provide a presentation and host a comment, question and answer period. Please follow this link to register for this session. Feel free to send any questions in advance of the public information session to [email protected]

[rocketphish]

Lansdowne Park to generate far less money, updated projections say
Revised financial picture 'builds the case' for Lansdowne 2.0, deputy treasurer says

Kate Porter · CBC News
Posted: Apr 26, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

Lansdowne Park could generate $218.7 million less over the next four decades than had been projected just one year ago, according to revised calculations by the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group and the City of Ottawa.

The municipality's arrangement with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG) should result in $326 million over 40 years, a "significant drop" from the $544.7 million figure presented to the same committee last May, according to a report headed to the city's finance and corporate services committee on May 2. Because of the way the Lansdowne partnership's complicated financial structure works, the city wasn't set to receive payments either way.

Both sets of figures assume no upgrades are made to the current aging arena and stadium, even though the last city council did set in motion a $330 million redevelopment plan dubbed "Lansdowne 2.0" in June of 2022.

OSEG presented the updated financial projections at the Jan. 13 annual meeting of the public and private partners, but the city also rigorously reviewed them, said Ottawa's deputy treasurer Isabel Jasmin.

They're a better reflection of how the pandemic had an impact on concerts and sports games at Lansdowne because the $544.7 million projection had been made after only one year of COVID-19 restrictions, she said.

The revised financial performance for Lansdowne also reflects the current higher interest rates, and OSEG refinanced a loan at higher rates, Jasmin said. A minor annual adjustment grows exponentially when spread out over 40 years, she pointed out.

"It actually confirmed the risk of continuing the way we are today and it actually builds the case for redevelopment," Jasmin said.

Lansdowne 2.0

Last term's city council had a big debate in May 2022 and decided to start down the path of relocating and building a new arena, building new north-side stadium stands, and developing 1,200 residential units in high-rise towers.

The $330-million project was presented as being revenue-neutral.

The new arena and stadium stands would be paid for in part by selling "air rights" to a developer who could build real estate towering above Lansdowne. The City of Ottawa put out a call for expressions of interest from prospective developers last week.

The city is also counting on receiving a few hundred million dollars in payments long-term from a more successful, second redevelopment at the site, which would help pay the financing on the debt needed to build the new sports facilities.

The first Lansdowne redevelopment was also supposed to lead to payments for the city, however.

Instead, the partnership has posted a loss every year since it began a decade ago, and OSEG covers each one.

Under the complicated financial arrangement, which sees any cash distributed in a "waterfall" to six different levels, OSEG is paid back first and that leaves nothing to flow to the municipality.

Asked how the city could reassure the public the second round of Lansdowne upgrades would indeed be revenue neutral, given how greatly the calculations have shifted over the years on the first phase, Jasmin said the city was doing a sensitivity analysis.

"This time around, having gone through the pandemic, we will be looking at different scenarios, worst/best case scenarios," Jasmin said.

Many other aspects of Lansdowne 2.0, including its price tag, are being updated from the last report a year ago, but Jasmin couldn't say when that next report would go before the new Ottawa city council.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-finance-committee-lansdowne-annual-report-1.6821892

[rocketphish]

Lansdowne Park embarks on new work to plant urban trees that will actually survive
After failed attempts, larger raised planters aim to help new urban trees survive

Giacomo Panico · CBC News
Posted: Apr 27, 2023 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago



Lansdowne Park has struggled to grow trees since its major redevelopment and renewed efforts are underway to create a long-term solution for a greener entrance to the land.

Landscaping crews have been digging up two sections of sidewalks this week along Exhibition and Marché ways to install large raised planters, according to Anne-Marie Villeneuve, vice-president of operations and guest experiences with Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG).

"We've been struggling with trees along these two streets," said Villeneuve. "We've embarked on this long project of figuring out what we can do for them to really grow."

CBC reported back in 2017 how dozens of young trees were cut down just three years after they were planted as part of the major redevelopment of Lansdowne Park.

A lack of soil depth for the roots to take hold and contamination from road salt all contributed to the trees' demise, said Villeneuve.

The new project will raise the planters and add more soil to provide more room for roots to grow.

"By next spring we'll see how our trees have gone through the winter and we're confident that we'll be able to start expanding this project into other boxes," she said.

Area councillor Shawn Menard says he's still waiting for the greener look promised by early renderings of the Lansdowne redevelopment.

"There's a lot of asphalt here at Lansdowne and this can be a hot place so we need good trees to combat the urban heat island effect that we're seeing," said Menard.

The City of Ottawa's own success with urban trees has been hit-and-miss, Menard added, as he pointed out a small tree planted on a public sidewalk on Bank Street in front of Lansdowne.

It's a similar story on other redeveloped roads in the city because of a lack of soil depth and damage from contaminants.

Menard said a pilot project will see the city plant 10 trees on Bank in front of Lansdowne in special planters that use stormwater collected from the sidewalk and the road.

The goal is to keep stormwater away from the city's infrastructure by filtering it through the planter to remove salt and other contaminants, then using the water to irrigate the trees.

"Trees take work, they take investment," said Menard, who believes these planters will be installed starting sometime in 2024. "It's not just plant it and be done with it."

The City of Ottawa has seen a lot of damage to its tree canopy over the past 12 months, especially from the derecho storm last May and the ice storm earlier this month.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lansdowne-park-trees-sidewalk-1.6821719

[J.OT13]

Apparently, we had to waterproof the Horticulture Building foundation recently? That foundation was built 10 years ago. How does it need waterproofing? Related to the leaky parking garage?

[SL123]

Trinity announced on their instagram that Nespresso will open a Boutique at Lansdowne
https://www.instagram.com/p/CsmXhRNptDB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[nredding]

The BMO branch at Landsdowne is closing in December.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by nredding

The BMO branch at Landsdowne is closing in December.

It hasn't been there very long, has it? It is the TD that opened there at the beginning after moving from Old Ottawa South.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It hasn't been there very long, has it? It is the TD that opened there at the beginning after moving from Old Ottawa South.

It was there from the beginning. Very weird and opaque branch, so I'm not surprised. Hopefully they can replace it with something that is a little more open to the street. I know that there are restrictions on restaurants in the Lansdowne agreement, but it would be really nice to see something with a patio open there, or at least something with street presence.

[nredding]

Phil235 beat me to it!