Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by s211

My gracious, the pearl-clutchers on this forum are just as bad as riot porn.

Fixed.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by giallo

The real issue with continually stabbings like these in downtown is perception.

Five years ago, I'd never hear people say that they don't go downtown anymore because it's too dangerous. Now? It's a constant thing I hear from friends in the burbs and comments online.

Social media is at least partially to blame. People are incredibly poor at rationalizing statistics. Just look at COVID.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's increasingly less safe for people who have no homes downtown and have to live on the streets, but I don't suspect that that's the sort of "it's not safe downtown" narrative people are pushing.

Why would it be less safe for them and nobody else?

[whatnext]

Unbelievable.

VanCity
@uncutcanada
Since the closure of the seating area on Helmcken last week the pic attached shows what’s happening in Emery Barnes Park. Drug use literally steps from the kids. This camp has been there for days and there is another one by the fountains. Have to stay close to 1101 Seymour St
[IMG]F1wPTlmaEAEc-1K by bcborn, on Flickr[/IMG]
Credit: https://twitter.com/uncutcanada/status/1683237195073859584

[madog222]

The city will not renew the OPS's lease at 1101 Seymour, the current lease is set to expire March next year.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by giallo

The real issue with continually stabbings like these in downtown is perception.

Five years ago, I'd never hear people say that they don't go downtown anymore because it's too dangerous. Now? It's a constant thing I hear from friends in the burbs and comments online.

Downtown Vancouver is still a bustling place, and I'm there all of the time, but the longer these kind of stories dominate the headlines, the harder it will be for the city's downtown reputation to recover. The crowds are there right now, but how's it going to look a few years from now?

The longer it persists, the more of a PR nightmare it will become.

If you were telling these fine folks walking on the streets in the link below:
http://spacing.ca/vancouver/2015/02/16/main-streets-heart-vancouvers-communities/
https://scoutmagazine.ca/2018/11/27/you-should-know-about-pigeon-park/
that some time in the future, these places will turn into rundown Zombietown central, I'm sure they will also be chuckling and calling you nuts.

If we keep burying our heads in the sand, Davie and Robson streets will be the next Zombie streets of the future.

[Vin]

Best news ever.....

Lease for controversial Yaletown overdose prevention site to end
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/yaletown-ops-vancouver-lease-ending

“As many of you know, I have been working — since elected — to ensure the operators take accountability for the negative impacts on our community. City staff have stepped up with additional funds and resources to mitigate the negative impacts on the community and the adjacent Gathering Place, but the operator has refused to take responsibility and issues continue,” said ABC councillor Peter Meiszner in a statement, who first suggested this past spring the OPS is in the wrong location and should be relocated.

For those who feel that this is an unfair and egregious decision on the part of the municipal government, I implore you to please write them to have the injection site relocated to your neighbourhood, preferably at your doorstep.

[Vin]

Safe neighbourhood?

Charges laid after 60-year-old "violently robbed" in DTES home invasion
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/dtes-home-invasion-charges
A man in his 60s had to be taken to hospital after a violent home invasion on the Downtown Eastside earlier this month.
“They violently beat him and stole his various possessions. The victim was taken to hospital for his injuries,” reads the statement, although the extent of his injuries is not known.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Repeat customer



https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/10/18/vancouver-repeat-offender-custody-hours-after-release/

And our old bud, crazy Mohammed Majidpour gets a whoping one day jail sentence for bashing an woman with a pole:

....Since August 2015, Majidpour has amassed more than thirty convictions in B.C. including three for assault, six for assault with a weapon and two for uttering threats.

His most common sentence is one day in jail followed by probation.

B.C.’s Opposition leader said the justice Majidpour received is an example of our province’s catch and release court system.

“A violent repeat offender like Mr. Majidpour, who’s got over 30 prior convictions, can smash a young Asian woman over the head with a pole, yell out racial slurs and the consequence is a sentencing to a day in jail,” BC United leader Kevin Falcon said.....

https://globalnews.ca/news/9904046/majidpour-repeat-offender-1-day-sentence/

[MIPS]

With a bar set low like that, I legally cannot advocate anyone do this, I dare say go clubbing for yourself and see what happens. If they throw the book at you, just point a lawyer at this and see what happens.

(spoiler: you'll still probably get a year in prison, so don't actually do that)

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by MIPS

With a bar set low like that, I legally cannot advocate anyone do this, I dare say go clubbing for yourself and see what happens. If they throw the book at you, just point a lawyer at this and see what happens.

(spoiler: you'll still probably get a year in prison, so don't actually do that)

It's not that the bar is set to low, it's the system and/or government knows that they are partly to blame for this situation for not having mental/psychological institutions to house and medicate the sick.
And you're probably right, if a working class tax paying citizen with a few previous charges was to assault someone with a metal bar over the head, would get more jail time.

[scryer]

Almost like there is a two tiered justice system .

[jollyburger]

A Vancouver, B.C., man has pleaded guilty to charges of aggravated assault and assaulting a deputy sheriff.

The case dates back to Aug. 14, 2021, when Jesse Rene Attig walked up behind a man whose car was parked on East 10th Ave. before cutting his throat and back of his head. Attig then fled the scene, heard Vancouver Provincial Court Judge Gregory Rideout.

The wound was not deep and the victim received several sutures at hospital.

In court, the judge watched a surveillance video of the offence showing Attig, 32, running from the scene. Police caught Attig after a cyclist followed him. No knife was found.

“There appeared to be no motivation for it,” said Crown lawyer Phillip Sebellin.

Attig had been charged with attempted murder in the case but he pleaded guilty to aggravated assault.

The second plea came came after Attig elbowed a deputy sheriff.

“He threw an elbow at a deputy sheriff and hit his arm and chest instead of his face,” Sebellin said. “It was unprovoked. It was a full-power elbow strike.”

Sebellin is looking for two to three years’ jail for the aggravated assault with 30 days to be served concurrently for the sheriff incident.

Defence lawyer Jonathan Waddington is seeking a conditional sentence order.

https://www.burnabynow.com/highlights/guilty-plea-in-vancouver-throat-slashing-incident-7427086

[whatnext]

Global highlights the pathetic rate of those charged in the anti-shoplifting blitz earlier in the year:

‘Vile behaviour’: Retail chain demands accountability for B.C. shoplifting violence
By Kristen Robinson Global News
Posted August 29, 2023 6:43 pm

A retail chain with 79 stores in western Canada including 52 in B.C., is demanding action and justice for what it describes as an “ongoing tsunami of crime” after Global News reported on the low charge rate in a recent VPD anti-shoplifting blitz.

Retail violence has increased by 500 per cent over four years, according to London Drugs’ loss prevention general manager, and the pharmacy chain is now spending upwards of $1.5 million more on security at its Vancouver stores than it did two years ago.

“We’re seeing a lot of random sort of violence or threats that take place, a lot of vile behaviour, racism, abuse of customers and staff around the people who are doing these crimes,” Tony Hunt told Global News in an interview Tuesday....

....London Drugs is one of 28 retailers which participated in a Vancouver police shoplifting crackdown in February and March.

Of the 278 charges police recommended to Crown counsel, more than half (56 per cent) were not approved.

“It’s really unfortunate when so much work goes into providing solid cases … and so many of them end up not being acted upon once it gets to the courts,” Hunt said.

Crown counsel’s charge approval standard is a two-part test of whether there is a substantial likelihood of conviction, and whether or not the prosecution is in the public interest.

“I’m not sure that their perception of what’s in the public interest and my customers and our employees’ perception of what’s in the public interest matches,” Hunt said....

https://globalnews.ca/news/9927646/vancouver-shoplift-crackdown-few-charges/

[Metro-One]

I'm sure the same apologists will come out and say since they personally haven't been attacked or robbed, everything is fine.

I was in Vancouver the other week, and a huge benefit of living overseas and only visiting occasionally is that you escape the frog in slowly warming water condition, and the changes (for the worst) in open drug use, human suffering, unpleasant conditions, tents, and being harassed and yelled at randomly was an awful and sad experience. it's so painfully obvious that what has been attempted over the last decade is failing, and doubling down on more of it without any radical alterations is insane.

It is something I never really realized was so important until living in Japan. Things aren't perfect here, there are strange and dangerous people everywhere in the world, but I live in an urban area about the size of Nanaimo (which I also visited this year and also had junkies everywhere), but my children and I have thankfully never seen anyone shooting up, overdosing, or sprawled out asleep in garbage in any of the parks we frequent, or the train stations we use (also no one is loitering), or the walking and biking paths we walk along. It really adds a nice positive peace of mind when raising kids.

You want to encourage pedestrian use, biking, transit use, etc... one of the biggest keys is having a safe and clean environment to do so.

Every day I was in Metro-Vancouver this summer I was yelled / shouted at at least once by some cracked out lunatic. PS, I treat the homeless / drug addicts like anyone else. I did have some nice conversations with those who were nice and polite to me (and others), but I have no patience for the pushy / angry ones and will tell them where to go.

This stuff is starting to become an international reputation and embarrassment as well for Vancouver, BC, and indeed Canada.

This, along with the assisted suicide program now being pushed on people with depression and mental disorders (which I suffer from, and i find offering suicide to such people incredibly insulting and disgusting. We won't kill murderers and rapists, but we will let the homeless die in the streets and offer those who need a helping hand death), the never ending parade of gender bullshit, etc... is really making me wonder what the fuck has happened to Canada over the last decade.

The funny thing is there are many other western nations right now using Canada as their canary in the coal mine, and are now pulling back on these issues above after seeing the results.

I've always tried to be really polite on here, but after seeing so much degradation and increased division in the last decade I'm going to start calling it out much more now.

[Feathered Friend]

Well, I didn't think the discourse in this thread could sink much lower, yet here we are.

As someone who has experienced an assault with a weapon over the last few months, maybe it is fair to look at how Vancouver has declined under the stress of two simultaneous pandemics, and other unprecedent global stressors.

After all, if the conversations in this forum have reached the point that we start criticizing the rights of LGTBQ+ individuals, surely the city as a whole must be suffering somewhat too.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Safety is relative. We've had a grand total of zero assassinated politicians, subway bombings or cult murders in the last forty years, so in that regard, Canada is much, much safer than Japan.

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

After all, if the conversations in this forum have reached the point that we start criticizing the rights of LGTBQ+ individuals, surely the city as a whole must be suffering somewhat too.

It's a common thing for haters to just slide it into every single unrelated social issue: "figures people who're stupid enough to believe in LGBTQ+ rights would be stupid enough to support this other topic." It's not pleasant, but it's a thing.

[Metro-One]

Those same stresses have affected every other place in the world, especially the western world, so those excuses have controls for comparison world wide, and her the same degradation hasn’t occurred everywhere. Also a lot of this was in full swing long before Covid and related inflation problems occurred.

All these issues are related because they have been spearheaded under the same principals and ideology under the same governing bodies.

Also questioning the logic of having 80+ genders now (which seems to have just become a new word for “personality”) does not equate to criticizing the rights of LGBTQ (all the other acronyms after that are committee driven hair splitting) no more than questioning the practices and validity of the Bible (or any other holy book) equates to criticizing the rights of religious followers.

And that perfectly shows how the issues are all related. Any questioning, doubt, or suggestion of thinking / approaching the situation differently equates to “hate / bigotry / etc…” to the pilgrims of said political dogma (which is what politics have essentially become in Canada now compared to a decade ago, it’s sad to see).

But sure, keep doubling down on the policies that have led to this disaster in the first place. Keep moving the goal posts. I’m sure soon people will start saying, “well, at least we’re not like Brazil” to excuse the homeless and safety issue (and more).

California is just doing so well in its major cities, just keep copying them!

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Safety is relative. We've had a grand total of zero assassinated politicians, subway bombings or cult murders in the last forty years, so in that regard, Canada is much, much safer than Japan.



It's a common thing for haters to just slide it into every single unrelated social issue: "figures people who're stupid enough to believe in LGBTQ+ rights would be stupid enough to support this other topic." It's not pleasant, but it's a thing.

This is perhaps the best strawman / coping mechanism I have seen on here.

I directly said that there still are problems / bad people in Japan, but daily life is far safer and the public realm far more clean (not perfect, but much better overall).

Buts it’s okay, Japan also hasn’t had all the drug overdoses / epidemics, random assaults, continuous theft, and mass shootings of Canada over the last 40 years.

I love riding my bike around and almost never locking it (even at train stations!)

I love keeping my car on and unlocked in the summer (AC) while running into a convenience store for a minute.

I love never worrying about leaving things in my car and never worrying about smashed windows.

I love never seeing drugged out people at the playground / park with my kids.

Most of all I love that while teaching my students (high school / University) I almost never have to worry about any of them becoming zombie addicts.

ETC…

Again, there are problems and issues that do need attention, but in these regards maybe Vancouver and Canada should rethink their strategies and stop stretching for excuses.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

... I love keeping my car on and unlocked in the summer (AC) while running into a convenience store for a minute.

I love never worrying about leaving things in my car and never worrying about smashed windows.

I love never seeing drugged out people at the playground / park...

Didn't you just say "personally haven't been attacked or robbed, everything is fine" counts as apologism? Me, I've done all of the above in Vancouver (albeit not all on the same day or in the same location); everybody in the first world has sensationalist violent headlines these day, but I don't expect to get stabbed on the train next time I visit Tokyo no matter how many times that makes the news.

Vancouver's opening another detox centre on Clark. Victoria did a house-cleaning of Atira and BC Housing, and is reopening Riverview (eventually). Ottawa is overhauling the catch-and-release bill. Whatever other "rethinking" you think needs to be done, consider that Canada is not Japan: Japanese solutions may not work here, nor should they have to.