Halifax Transit

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Empire

Building a new bridge would mean locating it on the north side of the MacKay. The bridge in this location would require stanchions and exit ramps in Africville Park. If you look at the exit ramps for the MacKay they look like they occupy some of the former Africville location so this would be a very difficult sell.

So, tear it down and only have one bridge?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Empire

Building a new bridge would mean locating it on the north side of the MacKay. The bridge in this location would require stanchions and exit ramps in Africville Park. If you look at the exit ramps for the MacKay they look like they occupy some of the former Africville location so this would be a very difficult sell.

Well, that park is a modern creation. There was no park there historically. I see no reason why it could not be relocated if need be. The existing MacKay structures and approaches are already located on that land and we’re allegedly a contributor to the relocations that took place a few years earlier.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

And no, you didn't say it was structural, you just said it was a 'lifespan' issue, which is even more open to interpretation.

Open to interpretation? Please, that's just laughable.

Anyway, I've wasted enough time and I've provided the source for my original assertion. Not going to waste any more time lawyering this with you.

Good call, since lawyering is all you've been doing. You haven't substantively rebutted anything I said.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by NorthernGreg

During todays transportation standing committee meeting, Waye Mason asked David Reage about the status of updated fare payment system. As discussed here already, this is now in the hands of Halifax Transit and Masabi to get the project operational. Reage failed to provide an updated timeline for when the upgrade will be complete and said it will ultimately not be this summer as previously stated (who would have thought). Reage noted a meeting that will take place mid September, where he hopes to have an updated timeline to present to council. I smell a 2024 launch

Mason and Reage both mentioned they've been frustrated with the delays and have been receiving email/online complaints regularly. Reage seemed to deflect most of the blame onto Masabi and said he has escalated their case - implying Halifax Transit has done everything they need to do. Whether or not that is the case we don't really know.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...ic-ticket-system-delayed-again-1.6946752

After multiple delays, passengers on Halifax Transit will have to wait a little longer before they can use their smart phones to pay for trips on buses and ferries.

Coun. Waye Mason asked for an update on the electronic fare system during a meeting of the city's transportation standing committee Thursday.

London, U.K.-based company Masabi is designing the system, and was awarded the contract in July 2022. At the time, staff said it could be in place within months. That date then shifted to this summer.

Dave Reage, executive director of Halifax Transit, said he didn't have a new delivery date just yet because he wanted to make sure the next timeline is "as ironclad as it can be" before it's shared.

"Likely, we're going to get into the fall before we have this roll out unfortunately," Reage said during the meeting.

"I appreciate the frustration. Frankly I share the frustration, and we are working away at it."

A white man in a grey suit and tie stands in front of a transit bus
Dave Reage is executive director of Halifax Transit (Robert Guertin/CBC)
The app will allow people to pay for tickets electronically on their phone, which they can then show to the driver. Right now, riders need exact change for a bus or ferry, if they don't have paper tickets or a pass which are only sold at certain retail stores.

Reage said he's making calls to Masabi to "make sure they understand the importance" of getting the system running.

Mason said Masabi is a "giant" in the fare technology field so he has confidence the system will work well once it arrives.

"But it's got to be on the ground, so we're going to have to keep asking," Mason said.

Eventually, the buses and ferries will have scanners for the app, but that's expected to come about nine months after the app first launches.

After the scanners are installed, the next move will be to allow debit and credit card payment.

[egb]

Originally Posted by NorthernGreg

During todays transportation standing committee meeting, Waye Mason asked David Reage about the status of updated fare payment system. As discussed here already, this is now in the hands of Halifax Transit and Masabi to get the project operational. Reage failed to provide an updated timeline for when the upgrade will be complete and said it will ultimately not be this summer as previously stated (who would have thought). Reage noted a meeting that will take place mid September, where he hopes to have an updated timeline to present to council. I smell a 2024 launch

Mason and Reage both mentioned they've been frustrated with the delays and have been receiving email/online complaints regularly. Reage seemed to deflect most of the blame onto Masabi and said he has escalated their case - implying Halifax Transit has done everything they need to do. Whether or not that is the case we don't really know.

There’s been a lot of justified frustration about this but I almost think people aren’t frustrated enough.

There is a pretty strong vision out there about a bigger and more dynamic Halifax but the actual evidence that the city can deliver on anything close to it is so far pretty meagre.

The same organization that can’t figure fare management is the same one that needs to convince people it can build a BRT system and so far this does not inspire confidence.

A single fast ferry route is now expected to cost as much as the entire BRT system ($215M). The city got federal and provincial funding to build a complete bike network. This was projected to take three years and three years later barely anything has happened.

All of that is before you get into the planning department’s inability to deliver major plans and development agreements in a reasonable time.

There was a debate here a week or two ago about whether highway twinning was worth it and as someone who was originally skeptical of these projects I have to give credit where credit is due that these things just get built. Not much fuss (Falmouth aside) and largely on budget. There are plans to build highways out to Chester and Lake Loon and there is no real doubt that these projects will get done.

Will we have one new working ferry by that point?

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by egb

There’s been a lot of justified frustration about this but I almost think people aren’t frustrated enough.

There is a pretty strong vision out there about a bigger and more dynamic Halifax but the actual evidence that the city can deliver on anything close to it is so far pretty meagre.

The same organization that can’t figure fare management is the same one that needs to convince people it can build a BRT system and so far this does not inspire confidence.

A single fast ferry route is now expected to cost as much as the entire BRT system ($215M). The city got federal and provincial funding to build a complete bike network. This was projected to take three years and three years later barely anything has happened.

All of that is before you get into the planning department’s inability to deliver major plans and development agreements in a reasonable time.

There was a debate here a week or two ago about whether highway twinning was worth it and as someone who was originally skeptical of these projects I have to give credit where credit is due that these things just get built. Not much fuss (Falmouth aside) and largely on budget. There are plans to build highways out to Chester and Lake Loon and there is no real doubt that these projects will get done.

Will we have one new working ferry by that point?

The biggest reason the Twinning projects are getting done is Dexter Construction. A gettr done organization that does NOT suffer fools.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by egb

A single fast ferry route is now expected to cost as much as the entire BRT system ($215M). The city got federal and provincial funding to build a complete bike network. This was projected to take three years and three years later barely anything has happened.

All of that is before you get into the planning department’s inability to deliver major plans and development agreements in a reasonable time.

There was a debate here a week or two ago about whether highway twinning was worth it and as someone who was originally skeptical of these projects I have to give credit where credit is due that these things just get built. Not much fuss (Falmouth aside) and largely on budget. There are plans to build highways out to Chester and Lake Loon and there is no real doubt that these projects will get done.

Will we have one new working ferry by that point?

There may well be one new ferry by then, but the real question is whether it be just 🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵 at the dock due to the lack of a proper terminal or sufficient crew.

[Empire]

Happened to be going by the largest transit terminal in metro at the Sportsplex and dropped in to buy transit tickets as we use the ferry on occasion. Asked for a sleeve of tickets at the convenience store in the terminal but couldn't get them because they don't accept visa. I asked if there was a ticket vending machine in the terminal and I was told no, but I could go to an ATM, go across the street to Pharmasave or call 311. I called 311 (Hfx. Transit) and they said I could get them in the area. I asked when they would be installing a vending machine in the terminal and the line was suddenly disconnected.....

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by Empire

Happened to be going by the largest transit terminal in metro at the Sportsplex and dropped in to buy transit tickets as we use the ferry on occasion. Asked for a sleeve of tickets at the convenience store in the terminal but couldn't get them because they don't accept visa. I asked if there was a ticket vending machine in the terminal and I was told no, but I could go to an ATM, go across the street to Pharmasave or call 311. I called 311 (Hfx. Transit) and they said I could get them in the area. I asked when they would be installing a vending machine in the terminal and the line was suddenly disconnected.....

That is so unbelievably pathetic. What the hell is wrong with HRM?

The Saskatoon Transit App I have is "Justride" (developed by Masabi) which is apparently the same firm that was hired to develop an app for HRM. Why couldn't they just use the same platform already developed and existing in other cities? It's extremely easy to use and the busses also still take cash and card tap if you don't have the app or want to use it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

That is so unbelievably pathetic. What the hell is wrong with HRM?

It's the kind of thing thing that looks bizarre if you've been to many other cities lately, and suggests underlying problems. Halifax's transit feels stuck in the past, and there are frequent announcements of new plans with limited follow-through.

Maybe the transportation authority will eventually change things.

[Empire]

Went to the HRM ferry today with a $20 bill and said I would like 2 tickets please. The attendant said we can't make change and there is a change machine over there on the wall. I took my $20 bill and went to the machine and recieved a fist full of change. What a system! Sooo HRM.

[MonctonRad]

Making change (and customer service) is not in his job description.

He's a good union man. He follows union rules. Waddaya gonna do???

[Nouvellecosse]

That sounds more like a policy created by transit management rather than a union. I hardly see a union demanding a "no change making" clause in their contract but let's not miss any excuse to slander unions.

[OldDartmouthMark]

It's probably something simpler and less sinister than that - like they didn't want to get involved with carrying a float (and maybe set up the attendant to be robbed?), and decided to instead let the old reliable, yet archaic, change machines do the job.

It seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to set up some kind of debit system where you tap your credit card and it spits out a ticket, especially since a lot of people don't tend to carry much cash on them these days. Heck, I went to the gas station yesterday and noticed the tire air pump is set up to pay by tap, so you wouldn't think it would be a stretch to set that up for a ferry ticket... good ol' Halifax Transit!

[Empire]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It's probably something simpler and less sinister than that - like they didn't want to get involved with carrying a float (and maybe set up the attendant to be robbed?), and decided to instead let the old reliable, yet archaic, change machines do the job.

It seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to set up some kind of debit system where you tap your credit card and it spits out a ticket, especially since a lot of people don't tend to carry much cash on them these days. Heck, I went to the gas station yesterday and noticed the tire air pump is set up to pay by tap, so you wouldn't think it would be a stretch to set that up for a ferry ticket... good ol' Halifax Transit!

Right, the point of course is that Hfx Transit makes no effort to accommodate paying customers. If I didn't have cash I assume I would have been directed to an ATM and from there to the change machine. Shocking that you can't buy a ticket with a credit card at a machine in the ferry terminal.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

That sounds more like a policy created by transit management rather than a union. I hardly see a union demanding a "no change making" clause in their contract but let's not miss any excuse to slander unions.

I've seen people on here complaining about the unions at Halifax Transit, and how they are stultifying and impeding any form of progress or change. Is it union intransigence or managerial incompetence? Perhaps a bit of both. As I have suggested before, I think Halifax Transit should be disbanded, and a new slate created with a provincially run Central Nova Scotia Transit Authority with complete jurisdiction over regional commuter rail, peninsular LRT, ferries and bus service, all of which would be seamlessly integrated. The current management and union should be tossed, with a new managerial structure and bargaining unit created, with an emphasis on cooperation towards creation of a greater whole, including superior customer service, reliable scheduling ind interoperability.

The current system is completely broken and incoherent - fix it.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

That sounds more like a policy created by transit management rather than a union. I hardly see a union demanding a "no change making" clause in their contract but let's not miss any excuse to slander unions.

Good union men and women don't do anything if it isn't in the job description for their position found in the collective agreement. That is just one of the many issues with unions, since they make their members adversaries to the work they are hired to do instead of partners, at least in the more militant unions.

In any event my experience is that the "attendant" at the ferry terminal is usually a commissionaire contractor at the entry gate hired to do whatever it is they do in terms of herding people in and out. That does not involve anything to do with serving customers and dealing with fares, although they have done that in other instances like the harbor bridges. It makes one wonder if the ATU is defending the union positions back at the office that handle all that change and cash currently, whose positions would be instantly wiped out if electronic fares were instituted. That is another thing that is a problem with unions, who seem to believe they operate in a technological vacuum and any technological change gets seen as a threat.

Their "exact change only" method is an anachronism that should have been dealt with by Transit management decades ago but because they are utterly incompetent and don't know how to run a proper transit system designed to meet customer needs it has never been changed. Even worse, they have had many false starts and spent tons of public money on failed attempts to do what every other system in the world has already done many years ago. The entire Transit operation needs a wholesale management housecleaning.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Empire

Right, the point of course is that Hfx Transit makes no effort to accommodate paying customers. If I didn't have cash I assume I would have been directed to an ATM and from there to the change machine. Shocking that you can't buy a ticket with a credit card at a machine in the ferry terminal.

I got the point - it's highly inconvenient to have a pocket full of change from a $20 when you just wanted a ferry ticket (hence my 'card tap' comment). I was just saying that rather than some union/management plot, the reason is probably much simpler than that. Maybe it's union-induced incompetence, but nobody here knows the details, so I may as well speculate like everybody else.

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Good union men and women don't do anything if it isn't in the job description for their position found in the collective agreement. That is just one of the many issues with unions, since they make their members adversaries to the work they are hired to do instead of partners, at least in the more militant unions.

In any event my experience is that the "attendant" at the ferry terminal is usually a commissionaire contractor at the entry gate hired to do whatever it is they do in terms of herding people in and out. That does not involve anything to do with serving customers and dealing with fares, although they have done that in other instances like the harbor bridges. It makes one wonder if the ATU is defending the union positions back at the office that handle all that change and cash currently, whose positions would be instantly wiped out if electronic fares were instituted. That is another thing that is a problem with unions, who seem to believe they operate in a technological vacuum and any technological change gets seen as a threat.

Their "exact change only" method is an anachronism that should have been dealt with by Transit management decades ago but because they are utterly incompetent and don't know how to run a proper transit system designed to meet customer needs it has never been changed. Even worse, they have had many false starts and spent tons of public money on failed attempts to do what every other system in the world has already done many years ago. The entire Transit operation needs a wholesale management housecleaning.

IMHO, this is right on the money (but don't ask for change back from that)...

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Making change (and customer service) is not in his job description.

He's a good union man. He follows union rules. Waddaya gonna do???

To be clear, no union there. The services at the ferry terminals are subcontracted to ISS security who pay minimum wage and treat their employees like 🞵🞵🞵🞵.
Those guys have no say in how it's run.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

To be clear, no union there. The services at the ferry terminals are subcontracted to ISS security who pay minimum wage and treat their employees like 🞵🞵🞵🞵.
Those guys have no say in how it's run.

To be even more clear, those guys do what their employer is told to let them do by Transit management. Customer service is not one of those things.