PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[aprice1828]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I just don't buy that, maybe if you said the political will and money wasn't there to rehabilitate the area was the case then I can see that, however anything can be fixed as you see examples of 100+ year old structures being rehabbed, and transformed before our eyes now.

There's no way this area was somehow worse than the rest of Old City and we still have long stretches of original buildings there. We could have leveled Old City, replaced it with those 70s brown brick town homes in Society Hill, and people today would say "Old City was in BAD shape, you couldn't save it." Also, we lament what was lost at Independence Mall but we lost just as much between 3rd & 5th, Chestnut & Walnut. These "historical parks" are such a Disney Land portrayal of the 18th Century.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by aprice1828

Also, we lament what was lost at Independence Mall but we lost just as much between 3rd & 5th, Chestnut & Walnut. These "historical parks" are such a Disney Land portrayal of the 18th Century.

Yes 1000x. We cut off our nose to spite our face.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by aprice1828

There's no way this area was somehow worse than the rest of Old City and we still have long stretches of original buildings there. We could have leveled Old City, replaced it with those 70s brown brick town homes in Society Hill, and people today would say "Old City was in BAD shape, you couldn't save it." Also, we lament what was lost at Independence Mall but we lost just as much between 3rd & 5th, Chestnut & Walnut. These "historical parks" are such a Disney Land portrayal of the 18th Century.

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

Yes 1000x. We cut off our nose to spite our face.

100% agree the whole "historic" area over there is a mess, its a glorified Disney land landmark as you pointed out.

This City as well as a lot of America has a very big issue with putting in work to preserve or fix things, we have a mindset of destroy, and rebuild which is fine, but not in every instance should that be used.

[MyDadBuiltThat]

We see things differently now. When I asked people who were adults in the '60s they try to explain why they let so much be destroyed. They wanted new and modern. They were building a better world and the dirty, old relics of the past had no place in it. They really believed this and there was a lot of support for sweeping away the old.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by MyDadBuiltThat

We see things differently now. When I asked people who were adults in the '60s they try to explain why they let so much be destroyed. They wanted new and modern. They were building a better world and the dirty, old relics of the past had no place in it. They really believed this and there was a lot of support for sweeping away the old.

This is true. There was even a movement to demo City Hall as being outdated lol

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

This is true. There was even a movement to demo City Hall as being outdated lol

That really just epitomizes the extent to which the adoption of the personal automobile caused people to completely lose their minds. To even consider demolishing arguably the best example of French second empire architecture in the United States in the name of improved traffic flow is mind bogglingly stupid.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

That really just epitomizes the extent to which the adoption of the personal automobile caused people to completely lose their minds. To even consider demolishing arguably the best example of French second empire architecture in the United States in the name of improved traffic flow is mind bogglingly stupid.

it wasn't going to be demo'd to improve traffic flow. The square would have remained, as it was there before City Hall was built. It would have been demolished because the building's style had fallen out of favor even before construction was completed. the only reason it wasn't was because it would have been too expensive.

[TK2001]

While some of those designs get rid of just municipal floors of City Hall, some designs even called for a complete demolition of the whole building for a new clock tower and a roundabout. The other clock tower design looked similar to LA's City Hall...and THANK GOD that didn't happen. What we have now is awesome, City Hall is amazing

[summersm343]

Development Site for Sale Next to Vine Street Apartment Overbuild

Ahem, so you can imagine our excitement when we came across a listing for 1125-45 Vine St., currently surface parking and a gas station/service center on the NE corner of 12th & Vine.

When we went to scope out the site that is bound by Vine St. to the south, 12th St. to the west, the wall of the Reading Viaduct‘s terminus to the east, and Pearl St. to the north, we were greeted by a woefully underutilized property. This half-acre property is zoned CMX-4 – one of the most permissive zoning categories in the city, meaning that something big and mixed-use could go up on the corner. The defunct gas station and empty retail space are screaming out for development in this rapidly changing area that has some of the best Center City views you can find.

Read/view more here:
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/c...next-to-vine-street-apartment-overbuild/

[summersm343]

New thread - 2112 Walnut Street:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10020298#post10020298

[summersm343]

September CDR Submissions are up! No highrises, but some nice projects

PDF:
https://www.phila.gov/departments/philadelphia-city-planning-commission/public-meetings/

[TK2001]

Hoping for another year like 2020 (except for a worldwide pandemic), when we had a massive surge or high rise developments. Crazy how that happened during the pandemic, yet flash forward to three years later and most of those projects are built or under construction now

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TK2001

Hoping for another year like 2020 (except for a worldwide pandemic), when we had a massive surge or high rise developments. Crazy how that happened during the pandemic, yet flash forward to three years later and most of those projects are built or under construction now

TBH, I don't think we'll see any big flashy proposals this year. With the interest rate environment, my assumption is that we'll see what's already in the pipeline come to fruition and hopefully everything (at least in terms of residential) will lease up and have low enough vacancy so that when rates come down, it kicks off a fresh round of proposals.

On top of that, hoping for some movement/resolution on:
1. Roosevelt Blvd Subway
2. Bellweather District (I believe first few buildings are kicking off this year...will be nice to see something tangible on the site)
3. 76ers Arena
4. Perhaps a few hotels in preparation for World Cup

Hopefully we also have a mayor installed that actually gives a sh*t and works hard to make QOL improvements, particularly around cleanliness and Kensington, generally.

[UrbanRevival]

I'm loving the infill projects. Keep them coming.

The high-rises will likely return in time, but in the meantime, the more Philly keeps restoring and revitalizing its low-rise fabric (particularly outside of Center City), the better. It's the lifeblood of neighborhood vibrancy.

[TK2001]

Oh for sure! I wouldn't expect anything "massive" from 5-10 years from now. But hopefully we're stunned before that time frame!

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I'm loving the infill projects. Keep them coming.

The high-rises will likely return in time, but in the meantime, the more Philly keeps restoring and revitalizing its low-rise fabric (particularly outside of Center City), the better. It's the lifeblood of neighborhood vibrancy.

100% agreed. I'm an urbanist first and a skyscraper afficionado second. I care more about the overall built environment and the dynamism of the urban experience than I do the explicit height of buildings...but I understand both are important in their own right.

[Aether]

I do think we'll see a few more towers and highrises proposed, but not many. id imagine they would be around 400ft tall at most and probably residential or lab space.
But i definitely see projects in other neighborhoods getting a bit taller, like Northern Liberties, FIshtown, SOuth and West philly, i cuould see the average heights for projects increase a few floors especially as lots are eaten up with this current cycle.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Aether

I do think we'll see a few more towers and highrises proposed, but not many. id imagine they would be around 400ft tall at most and probably residential or lab space.
But i definitely see projects in other neighborhoods getting a bit taller, like Northern Liberties, FIshtown, SOuth and West philly, i cuould see the average heights for projects increase a few floors especially as lots are eaten up with this current cycle.

well there are several that have been revealed that have yet to move fwd so hopefully those actually break ground, if they do you will still see quite a few towers go up. The 19th and chestnut project comes to mind. So does the taller building proposed for S Yards on the parking lot near the newly built tower.

[thoughtcriminal]

WSJ Article on Philly's difficulties in getting people back into their Center City offices. https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/workplace/...ing-philadelphia-office-workers-f3b4dcf7
"Unlike many major U.S. cities, Philadelphia levies a tax on wages earned there, plus it has alluring far-flung suburbs, which helps explain why many people are staying away, said Mark Zandi, chief economist at financial-intelligence firm Moody’s Analytics and a Philadelphia native. More than 317,000 people moved out of Philadelphia’s urban core between March 2020 and June 2023, according to Moody’s."
So a combination of crime and high taxes. No surprises there.
317,000 people moving out of the city sounds like a lot, though. I'd like to see the author's source on that.

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

WSJ Article on Philly's difficulties in getting people back into their Center City offices. https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/workplace/...ing-philadelphia-office-workers-f3b4dcf7
"Unlike many major U.S. cities, Philadelphia levies a tax on wages earned there, plus it has alluring far-flung suburbs, which helps explain why many people are staying away, said Mark Zandi, chief economist at financial-intelligence firm Moody’s Analytics and a Philadelphia native. More than 317,000 people moved out of Philadelphia’s urban core between March 2020 and June 2023, according to Moody’s."
So a combination of crime and high taxes. No surprises there.
317,000 people moving out of the city sounds like a lot, though. I'd like to see the author's source on that.

Yeah that number is fully wrong. There are a lot of ways to slice dice population and migration data, but there is no scenario in which Philadelphia overall lost a 5th of its population. Also, the total population of the entire Greater Center City area doesn't even come close to 317k, so would be very curious to understand what "urban core" means here. And CCD data from cell phones suggests that the total residential population is actually higher than it was in 2019.