City of Hamilton General Discussion Thread

[King&James]

Tribute enters Hamilton with $112.5M land purchase from Greybrook
Aimed at satisfying demand for remote work, commuting, affordability

https://renxhomes.ca/tribute-enters-...from-greybrook

Looking out a bit, but nice to see Tribute Homes heading this way.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by King&James

Tribute enters Hamilton with $112.5M land purchase from Greybrook
Aimed at satisfying demand for remote work, commuting, affordability

https://renxhomes.ca/tribute-enters-...from-greybrook

Looking out a bit, but nice to see Tribute Homes heading this way.

It's interesting to see more and more GTA builders pick up properties in Hamilton. Traditionally they have avoided the city like the plague. Mattamy, Etc. have never built anything here from what I know.

Even if it's just more suburban houses, it's good to see the big GTA builders picking up properties here. It's a sign the city is seen as more desirable now. This is on top of Core Development Group, TAS, Slate, Emblem, etc. all having properties here which they are pursuing development for.

[SFUVancouver]

Some interesting data about Hamilton development on Urban Toronto: https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2023/08...and-more.53499


Source

The unit count only adds up to 20,057. It's likely that many projects have published total unit count, but no break-down.

[ScreamingViking]

180m maximum height? I wonder what that one would be... unless it's one of the proposals that were cut back and the height just hasn't been updated yet on that list (like 310 Frances, though it went up to 59 storeys in its first incarnation, not 45; Kuwabara's proposed tower at West Harbour is 45 floors and 147m on this board)

[mikevbar1]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

180m maximum height? I wonder what that one would be... unless it's one of the proposals that were cut back and the height just hasn't been updated yet on that list (like 310 Frances, though it went up to 59 storeys in its first incarnation, not 45; Kuwabara's proposed tower at West Harbour is 45 floors and 147m on this board)

Yes, I’m sure it’s something like this. UT doesn’t really know anything we don’t as far as development applications are concerned. An “insider only” project isn’t really a thing, especially not for the purposes of a report. It’s likely just the Frances project.

Of note is that more projects are U/C than completed. This is not common in the GTHA- it seems to indicate we are in our “first wave” while everyone else is well beyond that. Talk about pent up momentum.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

Yes, I’m sure it’s something like this. UT doesn’t really know anything we don’t as far as development applications are concerned. An “insider only” project isn’t really a thing, especially not for the purposes of a report. It’s likely just the Frances project.

Of note is that more projects are U/C than completed. This is not common in the GTHA- it seems to indicate we are in our “first wave” while everyone else is well beyond that. Talk about pent up momentum.

That has more to do with how UT has only recently started tracking Hamilton stuff, which means that there has not been much time for buildings to progress to completion.

The 180m is the 310 Frances yes, which has been whacked down to 44 storeys now and likely closer to 140m.

[ScreamingViking]

Thanks guys!

[SFUVancouver]

The Province's announcement of a $1.2B, 3-year 'incentive' fund is interesting, including the intent for the bonus dollars to be eligible to be spent on infrastructure to support community growth. The Province says that the bonus pool will be available to municipalities should they achieve 80% of their 2031 annualized target during that timeframe. The eligible bonus dollars will based on the community's proportional share of the overall pool based on pop share of overall target. 10% of the fund will be reserved for rural and northern communities, so the actual amount on offer is $1.08B.

Hamilton's target is 47,000 new homes by 2031, which represents 3.64% of the total 1.29M target for the communities that constitute 80% of the provincial population. If Hamilton meets 80% of its housing target over the next three years, which is about 4,200/yr, assuming a 9-year timeframe and ~5,200 units/year full amortization rate, it would hypothetically be eligible for $39.3 million over the three-year timeframe.

[Innsertnamehere]

IIRC Hamilton is one of the few municipalities actually tracking to be somewhat close to the housing target, as well. Not the best municipality out there, but doing decently well.

Design District and Television City alone are ~1,550 units alone.. so 40% of the 3,800 units or so needed to qualify this year.

Edit: looking at the stats, 2023 YTD is 1,351 units.. so Hamilton's gotta pick up the pace a bit.

Construction start is defined as the basement slab pour, so Design District and Television City won't be on there yet.. (Television City may not make it until 2024) so the pace should increase a bit, at least.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

IIRC Hamilton is one of the few municipalities actually tracking to be somewhat close to the housing target, as well. Not the best municipality out there, but doing decently well.

Design District and Television City alone are ~1,550 units alone.. so 40% of the 3,800 units or so needed to qualify this year.

Edit: looking at the stats, 2023 YTD is 1,351 units.. so Hamilton's gotta pick up the pace a bit.

Construction start is defined as the basement slab pour, so Design District and Television City won't be on there yet.. (Television City may not make it until 2024) so the pace should increase a bit, at least.

4,200 units is the 80% figure. The full annualized rate is ~5,200 (assuming a 9 year 2022-2031 timeframe) for the 47,000 provincial target for Hamilton. I also don't know exactly what metric the Province will use for eligibility. Is it approvals in each calendar year? Building permits?

It's also worth noting that this new potential funding will not make up for the revenue shortfall associated with the changes to development charges that can be levied as a result of Bill 23.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

4,200 units is the 80% figure. The full annualized rate is ~5,200 (assuming a 9 year 2022-2031 timeframe) for the 47,000 provincial target for Hamilton. I also don't know exactly what metric the Province will use for eligibility. Is it approvals in each calendar year? Building permits?

It's also worth noting that this new potential funding will not make up for the revenue shortfall associated with the changes to development charges that can be levied as a result of Bill 23.

It'll likely be CHMC Starts.

It depends how the target is calculated - Ford made it sound like the goal is 110,000 units this year province wide, increasing progressively to match the pace required to hit 1,500,000 by 2031.

as a proportion of 110,000 units, Hamilton would need ~3,500 starts this year to hit 100% of their target, or ~2,750 to hit 80%.

It's also well publicized that it's a 10-year timeline.

We'll have to see how they calculate it.

[TheRitsman]

I really like this model. It ties funding to housing starts, which means if the cities don't get the funding, they have only themselves to blame. $40 million over 3 years isn't anything to shake a stick at. This has been the model suggested by YIMBYs and housing policy fans.

This government has been a disaster on numerous fronts, and even when doing the housing elements correctly, it still needs to be corrupt. All that being said, tying funding to housing starts is a great way to incentivize municipalities to ignore NIMBYs.

[PaperSun]

So Ford makes changes to DC and exempts developers from having to contribute towards them, then tells Municipalities that if they approve all these proposals they can get some crumbs from the province? Wow nice bribe..

Hamilton can approve all the development it likes, there is a shortage of labour to build.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by PaperSun

So Ford makes changes to DC and exempts developers from having to contribute towards them, then tells Municipalities that if they approve all these proposals they can get some crumbs from the province? Wow nice bribe..

Hamilton can approve all the development it likes, there is a shortage of labour to build.

This is essentially pulling DCs from affordable housing (which is like taxing people on welfare in my mind). I agree with the changes to the DCs and then making the municipality whole by requiring them to build enough housing.

While I'm typically team progressive, this labour shortage nonsense is just that, nonsense. Building parking takes time, it takes material, and it takes labour. Making policy changes that reduce parking minimums will allow more housing to be built. Not to mention multiplexes can be built by labour that isn't building giant condo buildings. There are a ton of ways to build additional supply to meet demand while triaging any type of labour issues.

Not to mention the labour shortage has been a long unsubstantiated claim. There is a lot of labour in the province and nothing indicates housing isn't being built as a result of a lack of welders, or formers, or carpenters or rebar layers. In addition reducing the cost to build means developers can pay staff more, or pay additional costs for material shortages so material can scale up.

I also don't agree it's a bribe. This is a pretty typical thing that governments do. Lower levels of government meet targets, they get funding. It's a method by which we can get wholesale changes to internal policies where there is no incentive to do so.

City of Hamilton has no inherent incentive to speed up building permits, and approvals, it has no inherent incentive to change zoning policy or fight with communities to allow density. It hurts politicians, and it makes the city's job harder. Tying this funding to housing starts is key to getting cities to change their tune more quickly and the strong mayor powers that come at the same time is part of spreading the blame of multiplexes and density to local councillors so they can't just pawn all the discontent with the solution to the housing crisis on the province.

It's honestly masterful policy that I'm a huge fan of. We are handing war time level issues of housing affordability. It's about time we used war time level solutions.

[Innsertnamehere]

The DC changes pulled it from affordable housing, which many municipalities, including Hamilton, already had reduction programs for, and reductions for rental housing (25% iirc).

Development charges in Ontario are some of the highest in the country and that is because municipalities have built their financing structures around paying for basically everything out of DCs. It’s not fair to new homebuyers to pay these massive taxes, on top of the HST already being paid in the home price.

This is a good incentive for sure. Housing markets are complex - municipalities aren’t the only factor in housing starts (interest rates are screwing with starts right now, for example), but this incentive will make sure municipalities aren’t getting in the way.

People often forget that there is a lot more to getting a building permit than just getting zoning. Site plan is long and painful and can throw up tons of roadblocks from the municipal side.

Municipalities also love the excuse that once something is zoned, it’s out of their hands. Municipalities can do lots to encourage housing - reduce fees, reduce review times, simplify approval processes, upzone larger areas to lower land costs and make development more financially feasible, etc.

The fact that Burlington right now sits at the bottom of the housing starts list while being one of the most desirable communities in the GTA speaks volume - it’s the municipality throwing up roadblocks and failing to appropriately zone enough land in the municipality in a way that is financially feasible for developers for starts to actually take off.


Hamilton overall does a pretty good job, actually. Relatively low DCs, large areas, including downtown, are pre-zoned for development, is about to remove parking requirements, etc.

These all add up and make Hamilton a fairly decent place to build. Historically dealing with City Hall was also a problem, but that’s getting easier too.

And you see it in Hamilton’s housing targets - it sits relatively close to the target.

[TheRitsman]

So based on further reading. It seems Hamilton would be eligible for a total of $43,680,000 if it builds 100% of the housing target. If it builds 80% it would be eligible for $34,944,000. If Hamilton builds more than its housing target it would get even more money at a doubling of the money per 1% over the target. So if it were to build 110% Hamilton would receive an $8,736,000 bonus.

I believe I understand this correctly, if any thinks I misunderstood the math feel free to correct me.

[drpgq]

So the should the city switch from trying to have apartments buildings be built smaller (i.e. the giant Stoney Creek project) to getting more units? That's a lot of cash. Frankly given rents they should be doing that anyways.

[Innsertnamehere]

The 3 year timeline, including any excavation time to get their slab poured as per the "start" definition, means the City would want to be focused on getting existing approvals to building permit issue ASAP.

Think projects like 310 Frances (1,400 units), Hamilton City Centre (1,800 units), Brock U campus redevelopment (1,300 units), etc.

Get big projects which have developers wanting to move on them to permit issue ASAP.

New zoning applications are likely more than 3 years out from slab pour.

[mikevbar1]

I had some doubts about the policy only because the way I see it, the market is what chooses when and where things get built. The province citing Vaughan and Pickering seems disingenuous if we consider that these places just so happen to be where development timelines are coalescing. Of course I might be off base here, but I’m essentially not wholly convinced that the cities can influence this significantly; once a site is zoned, the labour to build it doesn’t magically appear out of thin air. Some cities that are farther off on project timelines for one reason or another will get staffed, while wherever the developers building the most right now benefit the most. Am I off base here?

Edit- this is to say two cities could approve projects just as fast but one will build out faster than the other (ie, Vaughan vs. Richmond Hill)

[atnor]

Ouch, 15% property tax hike next year.