America, Take Note: New Zealand Has Figured Out A Way To Bring Down Home Prices

[jd3189]

It sounds like housing is getting bigger and more expensive but wages haven't grown enough to compensate for this. The postwar US population would have still retained its place as having the world's richest middle class if wages grew with the level of productivity and wealth that was generated since the 50s.

One of the big reasons housing is so expensive now is because it's meant to be, under this current economic system ( yes, I'm talking about free market capitalism). Homes built back in the day have now appreciated great value for those who bought cheap decades or even years ago. Most people want a decently big house and there is high demand for living in the top metro areas of the country ( because of the greater economic opportunities and 🞵🞵🞵🞵 to do).

Yeah, one could go to a small town out of the way in the interior ( and many people do, if they can work from home and want a less crowded environment), but that's not and shouldn't be something people have to do, especially if they already have economic/social ties to an area. Not to mention how expensive moving is.

You have a lot of housing being built in this country but most of it is pretty much luxury development most folks can't even afford without going paycheck to paycheck on rent or mortgage.

There has to be some balance. That balance will require that those who are benefiting greatly from this current system give out concessions that will help the rest of society. The rich folks can only stay rich because most of society works for them and buys their 🞵🞵🞵🞵. The rich folks can always leave to go to a place that's a tax haven, but then they won't be rich for long. Regular folks will have a easier time transitioning back to a more communal economy in which we don't need to eat Monsanto GMO foods and deal with 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 corporations.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's at least 15% Indigenous (mostly Maori), if not more at this point. This is a much larger Indigenous population share than the US, Canada or Australia.

It's still ~85% white which is more homogeneous than most developed countries by a mile. The US is only about 60% NHW with significant black, Hispanic and Asian minorities.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's at least 15% Indigenous (mostly Maori), if not more at this point. This is a much larger Indigenous population share than the US, Canada or Australia.

oh come on. there are double the number of native americans of various stripes as there are nz’ers, never mind can and aus. but even more to the point, at what you say is 15% then nz has a much smaller total minority population percentage — and seems its a mono minority at that. guess i’ll find out more in nov we’re going down under.

[Acajack]

I was just responding to comments that NZ was basically all Euro-White. It isn't. And therefore not really like, say, Argentina. Though sure the minority in NZ is primarily made up of a single group.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was just responding to comments that NZ was basically all Euro-White. It isn't. And therefore not really like, say, Argentina. Though sure the minority in NZ is primarily made up of a single group.

actually, that its country with only 15% minorities, mono or multi doesn’t matter what, is what is odd from an american pov. and i get it. ie., i love visiting japan, but after a month in japan i’m like wait, what? where are the black, latin, other asian, etc. people? and i’m ready to go home.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

actually, that its country with only 15% minorities, mono or multi doesn’t matter what, is what is odd from an american pov. and i get it. ie., i love visiting japan, but after a month in japan i’m like wait, what? where are the black, latin, other asian, etc. people? and i’m ready to go home.

True, but that's a whole other debate.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

New Zealand is not homogenous.

Ethnic groups as per the 2013 census are European 74.0%, Maori 14.9%, Asian 11.8%, Pacific peoples 7.4%, Middle Eastern/Latin American/African 1.2%, Other 1.7%3

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by edale

The thing I don't understand about the 'housing crisis' that every place in North America is apparently experiencing is why it's happening now

I blame social media for the hysterics we're seeing from some segments of the population. That "Rent is Too Damn High" guy was laughed at during his run 10~ years ago. In the past five years the rent has increased in most places, but the hysterics have exploded.

I suspect that a lot of the commotion is coming from people who are actually from wealthy families who have or will receive large inheritances. Complaining about high rent is a way for them to mask their fortuitous circumstance and act like they're down with the common man.

I work with a ton of hourly wage people in an uncool part of the country. None of these people are on Twitter or Reddit, I suspect, since none of them ever complain about the rent. Some of them rent rooms in mobile homes for like $200/mo, which is unbelievably cheap.

These low rents never show up in rent-is-too-high articles because their data is just scraped off online databases. They don't have access to all of the mom-and-pop landlord stuff, which are the majority of rental situations.

If zoning wasn't an issue for housing affordability in the past, why is it suddenly being seen as the boogeyman now?

See my above paragraph. The rich kids have tons of free time and complaining about something makes them feel alive.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Point 1, especially, resonates. The postwar U.S. was already the most affluent society in global history, yet middle-class people were living in basic 900-square foot bungalows with four kids. Now even young, childless couples don't want the bungalows. They want a fully updated move-in teardown, minimum 2,000 ft.

Even urban living has heightened expectations. When I moved to NYC around 2000, it was still normal to have affluent people in smallish apartments with minimal building amenities, and no in-unit w-d. Nowadays, even less luxurious apartment buildings are built with children's playroom, conference rooms, gyms, in-unit w-d, quartz or marble countertops, luxury appliances, all standard.

Yeah. When I was a kid, there was no such thing as an "updated" house. Few people had new furniture in more than one room. There was no such thing as an "interior decorator".

That said, a lot of people had pianos (or organs), which were horrendously expensive when adjusted for inflation. Now the pianos that people paid $5,000 for in 1965 (like $30,000 in today's money) are worth absolutely nothing.

I do remember some people having grandfather clocks, which I'm sure are worth even less than free pianos.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I blame social media for the hysterics we're seeing from some segments of the population. That "Rent is Too Damn High" guy was laughed at during his run 10~ years ago. In the past five years the rent has increased in most places, but the hysterics have exploded.

I suspect that a lot of the commotion is coming from people who are actually from wealthy families who have or will receive large inheritances. Complaining about high rent is a way for them to mask their fortuitous circumstance and act like they're down with the common man.

I work with a ton of hourly wage people in an uncool part of the country. None of these people are on Twitter or Reddit, I suspect, since none of them ever complain about the rent. Some of them rent rooms in mobile homes for like $200/mo, which is unbelievably cheap.

These low rents never show up in rent-is-too-high articles because their data is just scraped off online databases. They don't have access to all of the mom-and-pop landlord stuff, which are the majority of rental situations.






See my above paragraph. The rich kids have tons of free time and complaining about something makes them feel alive.

its not just the rich kids spouting off. its the media itself. or should i say social media not just traditional media, whatever that is anymore. the point is all of it is a voracious maul that needs to be fed with low paid content writers. and screaming ledes to grab your page view attention. its today’s almost totally unmoderated media itself that is the problem for this topic and many others that are probably overblown irl.

so the rent is too dam high guy didnt get attention because the rent is too dam high, everybody knows that, he got attention because he looked so clownishly striking and was very charismatic on his one note. thats todays online media always tryna grab your attention.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I suspect that a lot of the commotion is coming from people who are actually from wealthy families who have or will receive large inheritances. Complaining about high rent is a way for them to mask their fortuitous circumstance and act like they're down with the common man.


.

It’s usually the people from wealthy families who got one of the those low paying art, media or NGO jobs, but still want to live in a prestigious neighborhood.

The rent is too high in Bushwick for their $50K salary, and they could never ever move to the Bronx le gasp or even Queens.

I’ve seen these sorts online, and they’ll ghost the debate once you start pointing out manageable neighborhoods for their income level.

Not to mention the clout seekers who are flat out lying or can’t manage their money. I once saw one in Chicago complaining that they couldn’t afford Chicago on a $200K salary.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

I’ve seen these sorts online, and they’ll ghost the debate once you start pointing out manageable neighborhoods for their income level.

I was one of the early people on the somewhat notorious NUMTOT Facebook group, around 2016 or 2017. It started out fun. But all of the sudden all of these West Coast anarchists showed up and started getting combative over capitalism, rent, whatever. I honestly thought it was a joke at first but there was no joking with these people, and they managed to get me kicked off without any explanation.

My crime?

Linking to MLS listings for one move-in ready home after another priced under $100k in areas that they were too cool to move to (granted, sales and rent prices have increased significantly since 2017). I told them that if they really wanted a house on a restaurant worker salary they could do it but they'd have to move, at which time they when on childish rants making fun of Indiana, Kentucky, etc. I replied by pointing on that their living in California was central to their personal identity and they were afraid that they'd lose clout amongst their friend group if they moved away toward what they proclaimed they wanted so badly.

I recall this sort of person existing back when I was in college (here in flyover country), but their numbers were limited to a handful per campus. One or two of them typically had a weekly column in the university newspaper, where they took absurd positions and talked down imperiously to their 20,000 peers. I'm not surprised that such people still exist, but I am amazed that their numbers have expanded so greatly. No doubt, joining one of these groups wins someone an instant friend group.

[SnowFire]

Im confused. These sort of people come from wealthy families so they have mom and dad to pay for things. I think you are talking about people that dont exist. My cousins friend lived in nyc for a while working as a waitress or something. Daddy paid for the condo.

[mhays]

Does anyone ACTUALLY live anywhere for "image" aside from a few narcissists? I assume most people choose locations due to career opportunity, activities, family connections, friends, and so on -- including people in expensive cities.

[llamaorama]

Rents being high and contributing to inflation are a real thing. Ask anyone in a conventionally middle class city like Dallas or Phoenix which used to be cheap and are now, well, not. People who work for a living and aren't "liberal arts majors who work for NGO's paid for by mom and dad living in Brooklyn". It is entirely fair that people are upset.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Rents being high and contributing to inflation are a real thing. Ask anyone in a conventionally middle class city like Dallas or Phoenix which used to be cheap and are now, well, not. People who work for a living and aren't "liberal arts majors who work for NGO's paid for by mom and dad living in Brooklyn". It is entirely fair that people are upset.

IDK, things are still cheap as they always were in many if not most places. I am a landlord and so pay attention to what's going on in my city, and there are tons of people listing spare bedrooms in houses and apartments for $500/mo. Go deliver pizzas for three nights and you've paid rent for the month.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

IDK, things are still cheap as they always were in many if not most places. I am a landlord and so pay attention to what's going on in my city, and there are tons of people listing spare bedrooms in houses and apartments for $500/mo. Go deliver pizzas for three nights and you've paid rent for the month.

It beats living on the street but renting a spare bedroom is a far cry from your own place. That's fairly common in the Bay Area because of the cost of living but far from ideal for pretty much anyone over 25.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by JManc

It beats living on the street but renting a spare bedroom is a far cry from your own place. That's fairly common in the Bay Area because of the cost of living but far from ideal for pretty much anyone over 25.

Oh please. I get that most of the people who post here are from small, rich families and so didn't even have to bunk with a sibling, but living with roommates just plain isn't that big of a deal and it saves a ton of money.

Nobody in the middle of the country cares about "The Bay Area". They don't aspire to move there. Yet those who willingly move to expensive areas never fail to claim that they're victims.

Out here in flyover country, things are cheap. I know the girl who posted this listing, she's about 30:


Here is the street:


These buildings would be $1 million each in an expensive city. Why willingly insert yourself into such a stressful situation?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Oh please. I get that most of the people who post here are from small, rich families and so didn't even have to bunk with a sibling, but living with roommates just plain isn't that big of a deal and it saves a ton of money.

Roomates are perfectly fine if you're in college or just starting out but most people want their own space after a certain age. Anyone older with roommates tends to out of necessity not choice. I rented a room from a friend about 10 years ago after I lost my job and couldn't wait to get my own place again and I also shared a bedroom with my brother growing up.

[jd3189]

Having your own space is both a social expectation and obligation for most grown people in this country. Even if you can't afford your own house, you should at least be able to have your own apartment (studio or one bedroom) or even a basement or Mom's attic. Having roommates is fine but isn't this America? Even in a big city you should be able to afford and be responsible for your own space. If you work somewhere, you should be able to afford to live there. That's how the economy should work.