[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[Nashe]

Heck, I don't leave my only-about-$5k worth of tools on any of the sites I work at for more than an hour or two, and even then, completely hidden out of sight and locked away.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

Homeless issues are everywhere. My recent visit to Halifax a couple weeks ago I noticed almost every public park is a tent city. I'm sure every Major city is facing the same issues.

It doesn't seem to be holding back Halifax development though, there's at least a dozen cranes from what I could see.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

An obvious reference to St. Bernard Square.

If the developer expects the city to solve homelessness/lawlessness before breaking ground, he might as well throw in hunger and world peace too. I very much agree that the city/province could be doing much more, but, these problems are intractable (especially given current immigration levels), and essentially unsolvable.

If the developer is expecting a miracle to happen, then St. Bernard Square will never get built.

That seems to me more of an excuse from a developer who no longer plans to go ahead with a project over financial changes (interest rates, costs, etc.) and using homelessness as the scapegoat.

[adamuptownsj]

Law enforcement basically doesn't exist. They release criminals if they bother to arrest them in the first place. Security is literally not allowed to interfere.

A friend of my father's was doing some security gig work at the Lorneville wind turbine site in Saint John. He chased away a crew of thieves who arrived with grinders and two trucks when they tried to cut through the security fencing. Cops were disinterested in finding them as the security guard 'should have let them take something so we could charge them'. Moncton cops seem about as disinclined to do anything as Saint John's, from what I've heard.

It's absolutely not a request to 'arrest all the homeless' most of whom aren't committing regular large scale industrial theft. There's serious semi-organized theft everywhere from Campobello to Miscou.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

That seems to me more of an excuse from a developer who no longer plans to go ahead with a project over financial changes (interest rates, costs, etc.) and using homelessness as the scapegoat.

There is no question that of all the announced large projects in downtown Moncton, the one whose future has the shakiest foundation is St. Bernard Square.

The main reason why St. Bernard Square has arisen again in discussion is because John Wishart earlier tis year said there could be 2-3 new 20+ storey buildings started in Moncton in the near future. This only worked if one included the moribund St. Bernard Square project.

The reality???

- Infinity - approved, may be starting in 2024
- Ashford/Downing - not even approved yet, possibly starting in 2024
- St. Bernard Square - approved, abandoned, possibly resurrected, start date unknown.

[Mud]

Been a few recent examples of developers (seemingly) unable to admit that they bit off more than they can chew with their projects. Maybe someone here can explain it to me, but as an outsider I can't see what's so hard about saying: "Yeah, borrowing/building costs have gone up since I proposed this so it's on hold for now while we review."

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Mud

Been a few recent examples of developers (seemingly) unable to admit that they bit off more than they can chew with their projects. Maybe someone here can explain it to me, but as an outsider I can't see what's so hard about saying: "Yeah, borrowing/building costs have gone up since I proposed this so it's on hold for now while we review."

I believe that's happened in SJ recently, and I don't doubt it's happened in Moncton too (possibly even at Main/VH). No shame in it, though I'd imagine in the current "look what I can build!" atmosphere, admitting that you have to scale back might feel a bit more embarrassing than normal...

[MonctonRad]

Renovations underway at 1111 Main. It will be interesting to see how extensive these will be. A few years ago, there were plans for street level commercial (specifically for a restaurant). Is this still in the works, or are we looking at something else...........

[ChampduLarge]

Re: Slower developments than we had hoped for. I am a fan of the "Proposals" thread here from across Canada and it feels much slower than it has for a while ... so perhaps there is an overall trend in the country of developers holding their cards close to their hands.

[MonctonRad]

Indeed. The same issues affecting developers locally (supply chain, labour shortages, interest rates, inflation) are also affecting the construction industry nationwide.

People shouldn't forget that when budgets are planned for these construction projects, the margins are usually pretty thin. Often it doesn't take very much for a project to become uneconomic.

The one project still going gangbusters in the downtown core (Three Sisters) has been under construction now for two years. The interest rate on the loan for this project would have been negotiated before the worst of the current economic crisis occurred. If these rates were locked in, then construction would be unaffected for current economic policies.

The situation would be completely different for a project like infinity, which has yet to start. Infinity won't start until 2024 (at the earliest). If interest rates remain high, then ICON will have do do some serious soul searching over how large a project they can afford. Worst come to worst, I could see this 30 storey proposal end up being only 20 storeys. I pray this is not the case, but we should be prepared for some possible downsizing.

All due respects to the tomato lady, I am firmly convinced that economic conditions had more to do with the current design of 1299 Main than she did.

[jonny golden]

Did the city ever release a time frame on when they were going to do the Lutz Street reconstruction? I thought it was this year. Maybe waiting until after the summer (tourist) season so as not to be too disruptive?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Did the city ever release a time frame on when they were going to do the Lutz Street reconstruction? I thought it was this year. Maybe waiting until after the summer (tourist) season so as not to be too disruptive?

Scroll up a little bit. We were just talking about that lol.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Renovations underway at 1111 Main. It will be interesting to see how extensive these will be. A few years ago, there were plans for street level commercial (specifically for a restaurant). Is this still in the works, or are we looking at something else...........

The hole out front is massive... going deep into the basement level. That can't JUST be for a new planter, can it?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Nashe

The hole out front is massive... going deep into the basement level. That can't JUST be for a new planter, can it?

Maybe an extension to the front of the building out to the sidewalk, requiring a foundation? This would lend credence to the rumour of ground floor commercial, possibly a restaurant.

[C_Boy]

Does anyone remember this? I had to dig a bit to find this from about 5 years ago. Maybe they are doing something like that.

[MonctonRad]

Yes, I indeed remember this.

It was only a conceptual drawing though. It doesn’t necessarily mean that this is what is going to be built. The renovations underway however are indeed intriguing.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

That will make it 2 restaurants next to each other in front of the Avenir center, anything that brings people downtown is positive!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenTri

That will make it 2 restaurants next to each other in front of the Avenir center, anything that brings people downtown is positive!

Within a block of the main entrance to the Avenir Centre, there would be five restaurants actually. This, La Vida, Monck 10, Baton Rouge (next year) and Carrabba Italian Grill.

Speaking of Carrabba, I'm embarrassed to say, but I only went there for the first time last evening, and I must say, I was very impressed with the quality of the food. I think I just had real Italian food for the first time in my life. It was a whole order of magnitude better than any other Italian restaurant in the city! I will be back, and sooner than later.

Nice view over the plaza in front of the Avenir Centre too.

[Leroy321]

So if everything goes to plan with all these rumours, 2024 will be a busy year for downtown.
-infinity 30 story
-laffords plot a land across from the three sisters rumoured 20 stories
-junction urban village building 3 rumoured 10 stories
-maybe Saint Bernard square rumoured 20 story
-Downing Street development
-Robinson galco project
-whatever’s happening with Baton Rouge/crown plaza

[jnaygull]

Originally Posted by Leroy321

So if everything goes to plan with all these rumours, 2024 will be a busy year for downtown.
-infinity 30 story
-laffords plot a land across from the three sisters rumoured 20 stories
-junction urban village building 3 rumoured 10 stories
-maybe Saint Bernard square rumoured 20 story
-Downing Street development
-Robinson galco project
-whatever’s happening with Baton Rouge/crown plaza

In a perfect world, all of those will break ground next year. However, with unstable interest rates, inflation, a thin labour force, and resource shortages, we could end up with none of those coming to pass. We're kinda in a chicken-and-egg situation when it comes to housing shortages and the capital it takes to build housing.