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  #17021  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2023, 12:52 PM
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roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by toaster View Post
There is a lot of Alstom bashing going on here. They sell trains. The responsibility falls on OC Transpo to make sure the trains they are buying work with the trail they are building. It's a total embarrassment for the City. This "We are just the guinea pig" attitude does not fly - someone didn't do their job - or worse - didn't know this was a job that had to be done or checked - which boggles my mind.
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Alstom knew the specifications within the contract. They never said that their trains could not meet those specifications. That is not on the city or transit agency.
Alstom's contract was not with the city, but with the Rideau Transit Group (they were brought into the consortium late). It was up to the consortium to make sure that the track and trains were compatible with each other. Yes maybe the city's owners engineers should have caught this, but that a double check, not a design mistake (its like blaming the editor for missing an error made by the author).
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  #17022  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 2:19 AM
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Full LRT service in Ottawa still on track for Monday
R1 replacement bus service will continue on Monday, but it's expected that it will be discontinued on Tuesday.

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 11, 2023 • 2 minute read


Work to adjust restraining rails used on curved section of the Confederation Line is complete and OC Transpo says it will be ready to resume full LRT service Monday morning.

The final paperwork on repairs to the Confederation Line must still be reviewed this weekend by the city’s interim general manager before the trains will receive the green light, but transit general manager Renée Amilcar says she’s confident the line will open at 5 a.m. Monday.

By then, the LRT will have been either fully shut down or offering just partial service for 28 days since July 17.

Eleven single-car trains operating between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair stations will offer five-minute service during the morning peak period, while 13 trains will provide four-minute service during the afternoon commute, Amilcar said in a Friday afternoon briefing. During the day and on weekends, nine trains will provide service every six minutes, she said.

The Confederation Line was shut down on July 17 after an inspection revealed a wheel axle assembly on one train had too much play in it and was leaking grease. All 45 of the city’s fleet of Alstom Citadis trains had to be inspected. Twenty-six of those vehicles had wheel hub assemblies replaced.

Meanwhile, restraining rails installed at 16 sections of curving track had to be laboriously moved by millimetres to ensure they didn’t come in contact with train wheels. The restraining rails are used as a safety measure should a train derail on a curve, but they have also been blamed for causing premature wear and tear on the trains’ wheel assemblies.

R1 replacement bus service will continue on Monday, but Amilcar expects it will be discontinued on Tuesday.

Trains have been running between Tunney’s Pasture and uOttawa stations since Tuesday, but Amilcar could not say how many people were using the system. More information on ridership will be available at the transit commission meeting at the end of August.

Amilcar apologized to OC Transpo’s customers at the beginning of her Friday briefing.

“Thank you for your patience,” she said. “I know this disruption has been difficult and continues to have an impact on your daily life.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/full-lrt-service-in-ottawa-still-on-track-for-monday
     
     
  #17023  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 2:22 AM
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LRT problems: A (partial) list of the many glitches on the Confederation Line
Extreme cold, cracked wheels, and a station that smells like crap: Here’s an exhausting (but not exhaustive) list of issues that have plagued Ottawa’s LRT since its launch.

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 11, 2023 • Last updated 7 hours ago • 4 minute read


Dog bites man. Pope prays for peace. Two news stories so self-evident they’ve become journalistic cliché.

And Ottawa residents have a news cliché all their own: “R1 buses are in service.”

Ottawa’s Confederation Line LRT has been out of order so often since it began regular service in September 2019, it can be hard to remember all the gremlins, big and small, that have knocked the train off the track (sometimes, literally). What follows is an inevitably incomplete list of the Confederation Line’s bugbears.

Doors

Problems with the doors on the Alstom Citadis Spirit LRV (light rail vehicle) were an early headache in the first few months of operations. Often this was caused by passengers interfering with the operation of the doors, necessitating a reset. Power supply and track switching issues were other early teething problems.

Cracked Wheels

In July 2020, an LRV is sidelined by a cracked wheel, prompting the first of four investigations by Canada’s federal Transportation Safety Board into the LRT. Investigators blame the problem on protruding screws installed by the manufacturer. Follow-up inspections reveal other cracked wheels.

Maintenance Work

In June 2021, the system is shut down for two weeks to allow for various and sundry maintenance work.

The Stench of Parliament

No, we’re not talking about the big building on the Hill. Commuters complain of a foul sewage smell at Parliament Station. The smell doesn’t stop the train, but travellers learn to hold their breath when passing through.

Dirty Inductors

Dirt, grit and salt contaminating the rooftop inductors, an integral part of the connection to the catenary power lines, cause serious electrical arcing and the shutdown of several trains in the winter of 2020. Rideau Transit Group replaces the inductors on the entire fleet and installs shields to protect them.

Derailment No. 1

On Aug. 8, 2021, a train derails as it’s leaving Tunney’s Pasture station. No passengers were on board, but the Confederation Line is out of service for five days. The derailment is linked to a failed axle bearing — a problem that continues to bedevil the train more than two years later.

Derailment No. 2

Six weeks later on Sept. 19, 2021, the train nicknamed Snowbird derails near Tremblay Station, damaging more than 400 metres of track before it comes to a halt. Curiously, one of the passengers on board was the LRT’s director of maintenance, who was taking his grandchildren for their first ride on the train. There were no injuries. The Confederation Line is out of service for 54 days, the longest shutdown in its young history. Investigators blame poor maintenance for the failure. Improperly torqued bolts came loose on a gearbox that had recently been inspected. The derailments and the litany of other problems lead to a damning provincial inquiry into problems with the design, construction and operation of the Confederation Line.

Extreme Cold

After a bone-chilling winter weekend in January 2022 when the temperature hit -30 C, the train is knocked out of service again. This time the blame is placed on a clamp that shifted “just millimetres” according to then transit commission chair Allan Hubley. Five trains are stranded and their passengers evacuated. Service is suspended for a day.

Lightning Strike

Is there actually a curse on the LRT? Resident can be forgiven for wondering that when on July 24, 2022 a bolt of lightning strikes the catenary between Lees and uOttawa stations. The entire 12.5-kilometre line is down for five days while workers replace 900 metres of cable.

Freezing Rain

On Jan. 4, 2023, a routine freezing rain storm (by Ottawa standards, at least) causes ice build-up on the overhead catenary near Lees Station. A citizen’s video shows alarming flashes and sparks as a train sizzles its way along the line. Eventually, an eastbound train comes to a halt. Then a westbound train. Attempts to tow the stalled train with a third rescue train end when the overhead catenary snaps. Later investigation shows the copper line got so hot it melted. The LRT is partially shut down for six days, with trains running east and west of the damaged track. The shutdown is blamed on ice fog from the Rideau River. In response, special “winter carbons” are installed on all trains to do a better job of scraping ice off the wire.

Freezing Rain — again

An unusual spring ice storm on April 5 brings the trains to a halt again at the problematic section near the Rideau River. “Customer trust and confidence in the train, during freezing rain, has never been lower,” transit commission chair Glen Gower says.

Leaky Tunnel

Service through the downtown tunnel is shut down for two spring weekends while engineers try to find the source of a leak that letting water flow into the tunnel. The leaks don’t affect service or safety but could lead to long-term damage to the infrastructure. An investigation reveals cavities behind the tunnel walls that are filling with water and seeping through the supposedly waterproof barrier. They pipe concrete into the voids to fill them in a repair effort that is still ongoing.

Axle Bearing Assembly

Accelerated inspections ordered by the TSB reveal an axle on one train that is covered in grease and has excess “play.” The system is shut down for four weeks while the axles of all 45 Alstom LRVs are inspected and adjustments are made to restraining rails used as a safety measure on the Confederation Line’s sharpest curves. It’s the same problem that the TSB and the public inquiry blamed for the 2021 derailments. Alstom has committed to redesigning the assembly, a process that could take a year or more, but that transit general manager Renée Amilcar promises will be a permanent fix to the problem.

This article will almost certainly be updated.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-many-glitches-on-the-confederation-line
     
     
  #17024  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 2:41 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Not keeping replacement bus service until a proper LRT service is brought back, is a very bad look.
     
     
  #17025  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 3:33 AM
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So much for the original promise of 5 minute frequency in off-peak hours to make sure that transfers to buses work seamlessly. Just like the 12 minute schedule on the Trillium Line that guarantees unreliable bus transfers. But maybe the 12 minute schedule will not return with the Phase 2 opening. We need to save more money on this failing transit system.
     
     
  #17026  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 3:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Not keeping replacement bus service until a proper LRT service is brought back, is a very bad look.
At 43% ridership, which will be lower following this latest failure, do we need to go back to 'proper service'? Single trains should handle the load.
     
     
  #17027  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 4:47 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Can we believe what we are being told by OC Transpo?

Granted, OC Transpo is likely being fed the information by RTG and Alstom, but it is ultimately OC Transpo who is making the announcements. They need to actually think-about and verify what they are parroting.

Case in point, we are told that “all of the work moving the restraining rails has been completed”; yet, we were also told that the restraining rail east of Rideau Station was temporarily removed while RTG awaits new brackets – which were not scheduled to arrive until Monday-Wednesday of next week. Final positioning of that rail can only be completed after the new brackets arrive. Ergo, the work on the rails is not “completed.”

Further; we are told that the vehicle wheels had previously been contacting the restraining rails as the vehicles turned curves. This was because the track layout was designed to U.S. standards. Certainly, in the U.S.A. the restraining rails generally are used by transit authorities to aid in the turning of rail vehicles. The restraining rails around tight turns of the BART system, for instance, have provided about 60% of the turning force, with the high rail providing the other 40%. (Wheels on the BART vehicles have, historically, had a flat tread, so the flange was the only factor in turns. Since 2016, BART wheels are being replaced with tapered wheels, which relieves the flange of some turning force, particularly on mild curves. They are still not resilient wheels so that they can take turning force from either side.)

However, the European-made, resilient wheels are designed to be strongest with positive flange force. Force on the back-side of the flange tries to pull the wheel apart. Thus, European transit agencies using resilient wheels (as they strive for noise reduction and smooth ride) do not use a restraining rail to guide the back of wheels around curves. The trade-off is more rapid wear (and, accordingly, replacement) of the high rail of curves and increased wear of wheel flanges.

Here is the problem: The restraining rails on the Confederation Line, we are told, are being moved “1 to 2 millimetres” away so that the back of the wheels no longer use them as a guide around tight curves. Great, moving from the U.S. model to the European model. We will only use the flange around tighter curves.

But that also moves from the lower wear on the high rail model to the rapid wear of the European rails and flanges. With an increased wear rates on the high rail and the flange it will be a very short time before 1 to 2 millimetres has been worn off. At that point, the back of the low wheel will again be contacting the restraining rail. Five millimetres is a reasonable wear limit for a flange, and the wear on the rail could be the same. With potentially 10 millimetres of sideways movement due to wear, moving the restraining rail “1 to 2 millimetres” does very little.

What we have been hearing from OC Transpo simply does not pass ‘the smell test’. And they should have noticed that before passing it along. It is OC Transpo’s reputation that is being further degraded.
     
     
  #17028  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2023, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
At 43% ridership, which will be lower following this latest failure, do we need to go back to 'proper service'? Single trains should handle the load.
Yes. We are burning enough money. Besides if too many people notice their commute is improved with bus service it won't help.
     
     
  #17029  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 12:46 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
At 43% ridership, which will be lower following this latest failure, do we need to go back to 'proper service'? Single trains should handle the load.
Mostly because it's kinda hard to have confidence that the system is actually fixed and we won't be here a week later. Parallel service, including Blair-Rideau express should be offered as a confidence building measure.

It's just really hard to have confidence in either OC Transpo or City Council. Seems like all they care about is saving money. Not actually providing a useable service.
     
     
  #17030  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 12:51 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
What we have been hearing from OC Transpo simply does not pass ‘the smell test’. And they should have noticed that before passing it along. It is OC Transpo’s reputation that is being further degraded.
100%. And instead of a real long term fix, they are deploying whatever band aid they can so they can get the trains back and cut the expensive R1 service. This is what we get with suburbanite politicians who don't actually use transit. They don't give a shit.
     
     
  #17031  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 9:23 AM
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100%. And instead of a real long term fix, they are deploying whatever band aid they can so they can get the trains back and cut the expensive R1 service. This is what we get with suburbanite politicians who don't actually use transit. They don't give a shit.
No, we get this due to citizens who vote and those that don't. The LRT is what results (and many other boondoggles). Multi billion dollar infrastructure being designed by ward councillors and bureaucrats with HO train set experience at best and having never managed a project bigger than their house purchase.
     
     
  #17032  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount View Post
No, we get this due to citizens who vote and those that don't. The LRT is what results (and many other boondoggles). Multi billion dollar infrastructure being designed by ward councillors and bureaucrats with HO train set experience at best and having never managed a project bigger than their house purchase.
I think it was the tight collusion between the the former provincial government and the Watson administration. Watson didn’t challenge his former colleagues on the massive underfunding compared to other transit projects in Ontario, the province didn’t provide any supervision over the incompetent management of the project.
     
     
  #17033  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 5:03 PM
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I think it was the tight collusion between the the former provincial government and the Watson administration. Watson didn’t challenge his former colleagues on the massive underfunding compared to other transit projects in Ontario, the province didn’t provide any supervision over the incompetent management of the project.
Watson was one of the authors of the underfunding, in both provincial and municipal office. He took pride in the cheapness. It was a badge of honour for him.
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  #17034  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 6:48 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is online now
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Case in point, we are told that “all of the work moving the restraining rails has been completed”; yet, we were also told that the restraining rail east of Rideau Station was temporarily removed while RTG awaits new brackets – which were not scheduled to arrive until Monday-Wednesday of next week. Final positioning of that rail can only be completed after the new brackets arrive. Ergo, the work on the rails is not “completed.”

Question: does this really matter or indicate anything? In context, OC Transpo was referring to work that needed to be completed ahead of resuming service. Clearly, the restraining rail at Rideau has not been an obstacle to resuming service because trains are already operating across that track.

I really think you're just arguing semantics on this point.

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Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
Granted, OC Transpo is likely being fed the information by RTG and Alstom, but it is ultimately OC Transpo who is making the announcements. They need to actually think-about and verify what they are parroting.
Have you listened to any of Richard Holder's interviews? He's generally given pretty good information in those.

In any case, your comments would be so much more helpful if you ever provided actual sources for the information that you're posting.
     
     
  #17035  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 9:48 PM
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I think it was the tight collusion between the the former provincial government and the Watson administration. Watson didn’t challenge his former colleagues on the massive underfunding compared to other transit projects in Ontario, the province didn’t provide any supervision over the incompetent management of the project.
I really really hope this isn`t a true accounting of what happened. But fear it is.
     
     
  #17036  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 10:49 PM
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Being the early mover, Ottawa was operating in a different funding environment. In Canada in general places get the same resources but what is different is how many years the funding uses the locality’s written or unwritten allocation.

So will Hamilton get a phase 2 as early as ottawa? No. Since it’s money has been allocated. Waterloo region will gets it’s stage 2 aligned with timing for Ottawa stage 3.
     
     
  #17037  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2023, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
I think it was the tight collusion between the the former provincial government and the Watson administration. Watson didn’t challenge his former colleagues on the massive underfunding compared to other transit projects in Ontario, the province didn’t provide any supervision over the incompetent management of the project.
Watson's form provincial colleague was Watson himself, while he was a provincial cabinet minister. The funding shortfall was based on the original $1.8B estimate, but correct me if I am wrong, the estimate had already increased to $2.1B when Watson made the $600M provincial funding commitment.
     
     
  #17038  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2023, 4:53 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Watson's form provincial colleague was Watson himself, while he was a provincial cabinet minister. The funding shortfall was based on the original $1.8B estimate, but correct me if I am wrong, the estimate had already increased to $2.1B when Watson made the $600M provincial funding commitment.
Yes, that is correct. The bill was already 2.1 billion when McGuinty offered 600M. This is in contrast to the province paying 100 percent of projects in Toronto and 300M of the 800M cost of the Waterloo LRT.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-offers-600m-for-ottawa-light-rail-1.798676
     
     
  #17039  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2023, 4:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
Being the early mover, Ottawa was operating in a different funding environment. In Canada in general places get the same resources but what is different is how many years the funding uses the locality’s written or unwritten allocation.

So will Hamilton get a phase 2 as early as ottawa? No. Since it’s money has been allocated. Waterloo region will gets it’s stage 2 aligned with timing for Ottawa stage 3.
No, the Ottawa funding was only a few months before the Waterloo funding (and long before construction started) and after the Toronto funding.
     
     
  #17040  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2023, 9:59 AM
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