Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Um, what?

In what way are things focussed on the downtown core?

He's delusional.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DogsWithJobs

As everyone has said, the LRT is commuter rail so it is not built for the core. The west side of the city at least gets the LRT hitting some of its neighbourhoods but the east stretch ignores all residential areas and follows the highway.

So far the city has done effectively nothing to serve the inner eastern core at all. Do they even have any future plans? West side has Baseline and Carling brts in the plans as well but in the east what is there other than more suburban routes like the Renaud brt?

Baseline and Carling are a myth at this point. Just a way to get TOD without having to build the "T".

I'm at the point where I no longer believe in the Cumberland (Renaud as you called it) BRT, blaming the NCC, even though it's possible to build most of it. Same with March and Stittsville.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by DogsWithJobs

As everyone has said, the LRT is commuter rail so it is not built for the core. The west side of the city at least gets the LRT hitting some of its neighbourhoods but the east stretch ignores all residential areas and follows the highway.

So far the city has done effectively nothing to serve the inner eastern core at all. Do they even have any future plans? West side has Baseline and Carling brts in the plans as well but in the east what is there other than more suburban routes like the Renaud brt?

This is what happens when you pull out all your urban mainlines and you try to build something to do it all.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by harls

There is a train joke here somewhere..

You mean your buttologist doesn't go "Choo! Choo! The bumhole train is going into the tunnel!"

I wish the LRT was functioning as intended, but will also accept the tiny train service for my own train-riding needs in the interim.

[rocketphish]

Ottawa Euro-designed LRT vehicles not built for city's U.S. style tracks
OC Transpo GM Renee Amilcar apologizes for the breakdown of the Confederation Line LRT "that brings a negative spotlight to our beautiful city."

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 09, 2023 • Last updated 3 hours ago • 3 minute read

The Alstom Citadis trains on Ottawa’s LRT were designed for European tracks where restraining rails like the ones to prevent derailments on the tight curves of the Confederation Line are not used, OC Transpo’s general manager Renée Amilcar told councillors Wednesday.

Wear and tear on the trains’ hub assemblies caused when the wheels rub against the restraining rails has been cited as one reason for two past derailments and the current four-week shutdown of the line. Work crews are currently adjusting the heavy restraining rails by millimetres to ensure there is zero contact with the train, as ordered by Canada’s Transportation Safety Board.

In a briefing to city council Wednesday afternoon, Amilcar said restraining rails aren’t used in Europe as commonly as they are in North America.

“This is an important point,” Amilcar said, speaking in French. “It was an American company that supported the city in designing the tracks. And we know that the vehicle is a European designed. In the U.S. it’s quite common that all rail systems come with restraining rails fitted. This wasn’t the case in Europe at the time.

“It means that in the U.S., vehicles were built to withstand the constant contact with the rail without causing problems. The situation in Ottawa is that we have a system that was designed for American trains that has European trains on the tracks.”

“This is why we’re seeing conflict between the trains and the restraining rail.”

In addition to the restraining rail adjustments, Alstom is currently redesigning the bearing hub assembly, of which each train has 20, two for each car’s 10 axles. The assemblies will be replaced every 65,000 km, she said.

The fix will finally address the root cause of the LRT’s wheel issues and not just the symptoms, Amilcar said.

Wednesday’s Q&A session was the most detailed explanation councillors have received since the LRT was taken out of service on July 17. Partial service with single trains began Tuesday between Tunney’s Pasture and uOttawa station. Amilcar said full service from Tunney’s to Blair will begin on Monday, Aug. 14.

OC Transpo is still working out its service schedule for September when students return to school and ridership is expected to increase. Commuters will likely see a mix of single-car and double-car service for the foreseeable future, but Amilcar assured commuters there will be enough capacity on the trains.

While a permanent fix to the wheels will be welcome, Coun. Riley Brockington cautioned that there are other unresolved issues with the LRT that have to be addressed. The city is still waiting for the final derailment reports from the Transportation Safety Board and its own investigation of the shutdowns during last winter’s ice storms.

“This is not the only problem that plagues our system,” Brockington said. “I want to caution about raising residents’ expectations to the point where they’re going to be dashed again.”

“I cannot say that we will never have problems with the LRT,” Amilcar responded. “However, what I’ve said is that for this particular problem with the bearing, which was the cause of the derailment in 2021, we have been working on the symptoms but this permanent fix will resolve that problem.”

In her opening remarks to councillors, Amilcar apologized for the breakdown of the Confederation Line LRT “that brings a negative spotlight to our beautiful city”

“I came here to fix Ottawa’s LRT system,” she said. “I will not rest until this issue is resolved permanently.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...les-not-built-for-citys-u-s-style-tracks

[lrt's friend]

Finding a permanent solution is critical for Alstom if they wish to sell this type of train in North America. There is a potential large market for cities not needing a metro style train and as we know these trains are slated to run on the Finch Line in Toronto and the Hurontario Line in Mississauga. We have indeed been a major guinea pig, more than any of us could have imagined. Our transit system has suffered badly as a result and will take years to recover from this.

[J.OT13]

Emailed my Councillor about Blair Station improvements that have long been planned. The legacy elevator should be replaced with two new ones by Q2 2025. The planned canopies will not be built as the timeline would bring us to when Stage 2 east opens, when volumes at Blair will be much lower. Place d'Orleans single elevator at the north PnR entrance will not be replaced (repeating the same mistake as with Blair).

[eltodesukane]

Looks like Ottawa tricked itself into buying "The Simpsons monorail".

[lrt's friend]

CBC News just mentioned that the Confed Line opened in 2019 with the trains not touching the guard rails. How do we prevent a shift of the rails in the future with our climate? Frost heaving is part of our climate. Scheduled shut downs of the system to adjust the rails?

[Horus]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

The Alstom Citadis trains on Ottawa’s LRT were designed for European tracks where restraining rails like the ones to prevent derailments on the tight curves of the Confederation Line are not used, OC Transpo’s general manager Renée Amilcar told councillors Wednesday.

That's a devastating indictment of the competency of RTG if that is truly the case. Sounds very much like a 'left hand doesn't know what the right is doing' situation.

[Fading Isle]

Originally Posted by Horus

That's a devastating indictment of the competency of RTG if that is truly the case. Sounds very much like a 'left hand doesn't know what the right is doing' situation.

I think this looks pretty bad on Alstom too. They’ve been marketing and selling these trains as their North America specific model, but they didn’t even design and build them to work with the track design that exists everywhere across North America?

Metrolinx has purchased 61 of these lemons and Alstom’s already been building them for 3 years. Quebec City has purchased 34. Presumably they both also need to wait for the new axle design to be able to operate these at normal speeds and with normal maintenance timelines.

[rocketphish]

LRT problems aren't fixed, but at least the city is telling us what's going on
OC Transpo boss Renée Amilcar has remained calm, admitted shortcomings, shared the facts with the public, and told us what she's going to do. That's a start.

Mohammed Adam, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 10, 2023 • Last updated 3 hours ago • 3 minute read

Even with the promise of a full return to service of the Confederation Line next week, it is hard to find a silver lining in Ottawa’s unprecedented LRT cock-up.

For one, we do not know for certain that the fix OC Transpo, builder RTG and train manufacturer Alstom have engineered will work, or indeed for how long. What we can safely say now is that the city, RTG and Alstom built us a lemon of a light-rail system, and the fact that a permanent fix will take two to three years shows how bad things are.

For another, even then there are no guarantees. And if you’re a rider whose commute has been ruined, or you lost your job for being late to work, there really is no upside to the LRT fiasco.

Still, through all the upheaval, anger and frustration, there is something to be said about the way OC Transpo, particularly transit general manager Renée Amilcar, has handled the crisis this time. Facing a storm of criticism over the shutdown and the poor performance of the R1 replacement buses, Amilcar remained calm, acknowledged shortcomings, shared with the public what she knows, and promised to do better. When the replacement buses failed to deliver as expected, she owned it, and OC Transpo then introduced the R1 express service, which has received rave reviews.

Amid the chaos and gloom, Amilcar remained steady and unruffled, answering media questions and acknowledging what she knows and doesn’t know. Under her, there appears to be a culture change at OC Transpo, with more transparency and diligence.

Some may wonder how anyone can find any good whatsoever in this debacle. With the agony riders have gone through, what is there to feel good about? Not much, I acknowledge. But remember that neither Mayor Mark Sutcliffe nor Amilcar caused this disaster. This grenade landed in their laps and they have been trying as hard as they can to defuse it.

Cast your minds back to the previous city government and how it dealt with past derailments and shutdowns; there is no doubt Sutcliffe and Amilcar have done a much better job handling the problem. Few can quibble with the information flow.

We used to just ride the train from one point to another, but now, axle hubs, bogeys, bearings and restraining rails are part of the everyday lexicon. We used to associate tight curves with cars and high-speed racing, but we know now that these are central to the operational issues of the LRT. Under the previous administration, the mayor, as well as the city manager, occupied centre stage, hoarding information and operating largely in secrecy. Getting information from them was like pulling teeth. Today, it is refreshingly different.

Part of this is that unlike his predecessor, Sutcliffe has stepped away from micro-managing the problem, and we have not had the interim city manager take centre stage as happened in the past. City engineers and OC Transpo staff are playing a central role in briefings, adding some technical credibility to problem-solving. Even RTG and Alstom officials are explaining themselves and answering questions.

Has any of this resolved what for many commuters has become a recurring nightmare? Certainly not. Despite the launch of the R1 express buses, the service will remain poor until the trains are restored to full service. And that is a big unknown because at the heart of the matter is a design flaw.

It appears everyone involved with the LRT project was asleep at the wheel, allowing major design flaws to go undetected. That is what we have inherited. The axle hub assembly has to be redesigned, but we will have to live with other problems, such as the tight curves, even though that’s not ideal.

All of which raises the question we’d rather not face: Are we heading to a time when we have to rip up the whole caboodle and start all over again? No one really knows. And that’s the tragedy of Ottawa’s $2.1-billion LRT Confederation Line.

Mohammed Adam is an Ottawa journalist and commentator. reach him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/adam-l...st-the-city-is-telling-us-whats-going-on

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

CBC News just mentioned that the Confed Line opened in 2019 with the trains not touching the guard rails. How do we prevent a shift of the rails in the future with our climate? Frost heaving is part of our climate. Scheduled shut downs of the system to adjust the rails?

I would be surprised if frost heaving would be a cause of this. All of the rails are attached to concrete ties. If the ties were to move due to frost, all of the rails would move with them. Assuming the CBC is actually correct when saying, "that the Confed Line opened in 2019 with the trains not touching the guard rails" (I trust the ability of reporters to get their facts straight about as much as I trust a sales person trying to sell oceanfront property in Saskatchewan), it would more likely be the result of rail/flange wear (or grinding). More than likely, the CBC is wrong, and they have always touched.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

I think this looks pretty bad on Alstom too. They’ve been marketing and selling these trains as their North America specific model, but they didn’t even design and build them to work with the track design that exists everywhere across North America?

Metrolinx has purchased 61 of these lemons and Alstom’s already been building them for 3 years. Quebec City has purchased 34. Presumably they both also need to wait for the new axle design to be able to operate these at normal speeds and with normal maintenance timelines.

100 kph is 20 kph above standard S-Bahn speed. Even tram-trains, the seimens product goes to 70 kph, the RegioCitadis is 80 kph, the "ET 2010" flexity swift is 80 kph, and the Flexity Link is 90 kph.

Frankly the operating spec was asking for a lot of of any vehicle and committed Ottawa to a brand new product no matter the manufacturer.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

100 kph is 20 kph above standard S-Bahn speed. Even tram-trains, the seimens product goes to 70 kph, the RegioCitadis is 80 kph, the "ET 2010" flexity swift is 80 kph, and the Flexity Link is 90 kph.

Frankly the operating spec was asking for a lot of of any vehicle and committed Ottawa to a brand new product no matter the manufacturer.

Interesting. On what basis is that speed needed. Phase 2 will have a few long stretches but even there it's shaving seconds away not minutes per segment. Dropping one segment would save more time.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Fading Isle

I think this looks pretty bad on Alstom too. They’ve been marketing and selling these trains as their North America specific model, but they didn’t even design and build them to work with the track design that exists everywhere across North America?

Metrolinx has purchased 61 of these lemons and Alstom’s already been building them for 3 years. Quebec City has purchased 34. Presumably they both also need to wait for the new axle design to be able to operate these at normal speeds and with normal maintenance timelines.

Pretty sure the new axle design will be available by the time the Quebec City fleet is is being manufactured. No such luck with Toronto, but the lines that will use them are less curvy and slower than ours, so using LRT trams as LRT trams.

[Richard Eade]

I’m not too impressed with the ‘transparency’ from OC Transpo – or maybe it is just that the media seems to pick and choose what is disclosed.

Anyway, I would find it hard to believe that the restraining rails have been moved closer to the running rails. I would expect that they have always been used to provide turning force on curves. That has the potential to simplify track maintenance.

First, it might be useful to review what a Restraining Rail is, and how it is used. Below is an illustration of various Restraining Rail uses (and a Guard Rail use, for comparison):



‘A’ depicts the end-view of a level track as it approaches a curve. (The red arrow shows the track layout, with the green arrow indicating the wheel position.) The Restraining Rail (shown in orange) is not touching the wheel. Nor is either wheel flange against a rail, since the conical shape of the wheel treads tends to center the train on straight running tracks.

‘B’ takes the train to about mid-point in the curve. Despite the superelevation (banking) of the track, centrifugal force keeps the wheel-flange of the high wheel against the high rail. This is the same force as when you drive too quickly around a turn. Your tires stick to the road to provide the turning force (the centipedal force). Since steel wheels on a steel rail offers little friction, the flange stops the sliding and turns the vehicle. In this case, all of the turning force is provided by the high wheel’s flange against the high rail, causing a lot of wear on the high rail and flange. There is no contact between the inside face of the low wheel and the restraining rail.

‘C’ shows the purpose of the restraining rail. The high wheel-flange has not been able to provide enough turning force and the wheel has begun to ‘climb’ over the high rail. In such a circumstance, the wheels move further than ‘normal’ and the inside of the low wheel meets the restraining rail. This does two things: the restraining rail provides a physical stop to sideways movement; and it adds friction to the low wheel, which acts to slow that side of the vehicle slightly. That acts to turn the vehicle so that the high wheel rolls back down into proper position to use the flange to complete the turn.

That was the concept of the restraining rail on a curve. However, in an attempt to reduce the need for frequent replacement of the worn high rail, some transit agencies try to use the restraining rail for double duty.

‘D’ is such a case, where the restraining rail is mounted slightly closer to the low running rail. The spacing is such that the high wheel’s flange and the inside of the low wheel contact a rail at about the same time. This distributes the turning force – and the wear – between the two rails and wheels. The restraining rails on the (San Francisco) BART system, for instance, provides about 60% of the turning force.

‘G’ was included to demonstrate the difference between a restraining rail and a Guard Rail (in fuchsia). The guard rail is mounted more than a wheel’s width away from the running rail. Its sole purpose is to prevent an already derailed train from continuing to move further sideways. In this case, something has gone seriously wrong, and the guard rail is there to prevent damage to surrounding infrastructure, or to prevent a vehicle from falling off of an elevated track. Unless there has already been a catastrophic failure, the guard rail will not come into play.

Ottawa’s Confederation Line uses both Restraining Rails and Guard Rails. You can find restraining rails at the tighter curves, while guard rails are across bridges. The guard rails that stretch across the Riverside Drive overpass kept the derailed train heading (relatively) straight over that overpass, on September 19, 2021. It was before and after the guard rails ended that the derailed bogie was able to move further right and damage several pieces of wayside infrastructure.

Back to Restraining Rails:
One of the issues, with regards to the force exerted by the restraining rail being too close, is due to the construction of our wheels. The Citadis Spirit is equipped with Resilient Wheels, made by Group Lucchini RS. Most modern European Trams run on resilient wheels because they give a smooth, quiet ride, due to the rubber insert. Here is a cut-away diagram of our wheel (from: https://lucchinirs.com/):



Notice that pressure on the wheel’s flange (the outward bulge of the ‘Tyre’) is transferred through the Wheel centre to the Wheel-hub interface. Look at the connection between the Wheel-hub (grey) and the Wheel centre (blue). If the force is in one direction, the two are pressed together. Opposite force will try to separate the two pieces. The wheel is strongest when being pushed together. Thus, pressure on the proper side of the wheel’s flange works with the wheel’s strength, while force on the back of the flange works to tear the wheel apart. This is why Alstom specifies that there should be no backwards pressure on the wheels.

If we had solid steel wheels, then it wouldn’t matter (to the wheels) which side the force was coming from – but the trains would be louder and offer a rougher ride.

As newer trams in Europe were equipped with resilient wheels, the use of the restraining rail to guide the train around curves was discontinued. The track designers for RTG should have known that and asked Alstom what type of wheels were being used.

This is a different problem from the under-performing wheel-bearings and Wheel-bearing Assembly that Alstom is redesigning.

[toaster]

There is a lot of Alstom bashing going on here. They sell trains. The responsibility falls on OC Transpo to make sure the trains they are buying work with the trail they are building. It's a total embarrassment for the City. This "We are just the guinea pig" attitude does not fly - someone didn't do their job - or worse - didn't know this was a job that had to be done or checked - which boggles my mind.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by toaster

There is a lot of Alstom bashing going on here. They sell trains. The responsibility falls on OC Transpo to make sure the trains they are buying work with the trail they are building. It's a total embarrassment for the City. This "We are just the guinea pig" attitude does not fly - someone didn't do their job - or worse - didn't know this was a job that had to be done or checked - which boggles my mind.

Alstom knew the specifications within the contract. They never said that their trains could not meet those specifications. That is not on the city or transit agency.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by toaster

There is a lot of Alstom bashing going on here. They sell trains. The responsibility falls on OC Transpo to make sure the trains they are buying work with the trail they are building. It's a total embarrassment for the City. This "We are just the guinea pig" attitude does not fly - someone didn't do their job - or worse - didn't know this was a job that had to be done or checked - which boggles my mind.

Swiss cheese model. Failures usually have many causal factors. Not usually a single mode of failure.

That said, Ottawa's project definition bureaucracy, from the politicians to transit planners, set this up to fail by pushing this light metro with LRT idea. You gotta ask why politics drove politicians to this decision and why bureaucrats went along with it.