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  #14421  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2023, 10:43 PM
Radio5 Radio5 is offline
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I was against the tax for the same reasons but I'm waiting to see the impact before calling it a failure. Yeah, building permits slowed drastically for the first half of the year, but appear to be back up in July. Maybe because the new laws that took effect on 7/1? 5% is not insignificant but it could be offset by less parking.
I was going to build 4-10 units of housing on my commercial site. Now it doesn't make sense because I'll make the same amount keeping it as is. So it will remain a 1 story commercial. Bigger developers/institutional will have less of an issue, but still will look elsewhere if they can. The impact will be felt on the smaller guys. And those developments, in my view are what make neighborhoods. Not these behemoth, block long buildings.
     
     
  #14422  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2023, 11:05 PM
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The luxury tax took effect on 4/1 but its also in court for two different lawsuits.

Has it really slowed things down? It still feels like a bunch of stuff is breaking ground or getting ready lately. Not everything is due to the tax either.. Other cities (yes, Miami too) are going through slow downs from banks being stingy.

The only city (outside of NYC) that seems it's really booming is Fulton Market in Chicago, but that's just one part of Chicago. The rest of the city doesn't seem to be building a ton this year.

What is Vegas doing this year? I dont hear much at all. Going through DC (my hometown) development page, it seems less than previous years.
Things have been slow this year for sure but doubtful that it's any single issue and interest rates are likely the biggest factor. That's why things are slower everywhere. Long term I'm just not yet convinced that ULA will be a disaster. I certainly hope not.
     
     
  #14423  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2023, 11:08 PM
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I was going to build 4-10 units of housing on my commercial site. Now it doesn't make sense because I'll make the same amount keeping it as is. So it will remain a 1 story commercial. Bigger developers/institutional will have less of an issue, but still will look elsewhere if they can. The impact will be felt on the smaller guys. And those developments, in my view are what make neighborhoods. Not these behemoth, block long buildings.
By "now it doesn't make sense" are you referring to ULA? I'm not following.
     
     
  #14424  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2023, 11:19 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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Originally Posted by Easy View Post
Things have been slow this year for sure but doubtful that it's any single issue and interest rates are likely the biggest factor. That's why things are slower everywhere. Long term I'm just not yet convinced that ULA will be a disaster. I certainly hope not.
Yea, I work for a big firm and its all over the country where big deals are not going well. The guy from Vegas or whatever trying to say its only slow in LA. Yea, no.

They actually opened a office in Florida recently and laid off people quick because of whats happening.
     
     
  #14425  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2023, 11:36 PM
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Yea, I work for a big firm and its all over the country where big deals are not going well. The guy from Vegas or whatever trying to say its only slow in LA. Yea, no.

They actually opened a office in Florida recently and laid off people quick because of whats happening.
Here's an article saying that the entire west coast is slow. https://www.costar.com/article/142749329...housing-production-amid-worsening-crisis

I don't know that other cities have been as slow as the west coast. I think that the Texas cities and Atlanta are building much more than here although maybe less than in the recent past.
     
     
  #14426  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2023, 11:54 PM
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Things have been slow this year for sure but doubtful that it's any single issue and interest rates are likely the biggest factor. That's why things are slower everywhere. Long term I'm just not yet convinced that ULA will be a disaster. I certainly hope not.
No doubt that the cost of capital is the biggest headwind for real estate right now (and work-from-home for the office sector, specifically). Regarding ULA, it's not as much of an issue for a company that plans to develop and hold their real estate long-term, like Jamison. It's more of an issue for opportunistic/value-add developers who operate under the develop and sell business model.
     
     
  #14427  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 12:30 AM
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No doubt that the cost of capital is the biggest headwind for real estate right now (and work-from-home for the office sector, specifically). Regarding ULA, it's not as much of an issue for a company that plans to develop and hold their real estate long-term, like Jamison. It's more of an issue for opportunistic/value-add developers who operate under the develop and sell business model.
That's my understanding as well. Still, even if you don't plan to sell it's going to be an option for everyone so it makes a potential exit a little more difficult. But it seems very doable to factor in that cost, especially given the value increase that many properties received by zoning changes and state laws.

I did read an article recently that claimed a significant spike recently for ADUs. That was good to hear and shows that some things take time to take hold.
     
     
  #14428  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 12:56 AM
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As someone who works at a large development firm, I can tell you that measure ULA is absolutely disastrous. People miss that it's not a 5.5% tax on profits, it's a 5.5% tax on total sales price. Generally your profit is around 20% on your sales price. Taking 5.5% out of your 20% of profit is around a 27.5% tax new tax on your profits IF things go well. That doesn't account for the fact that you can lose a ton of money and STILL have to pay the tax.

As for developers that hold forever, that is a minority of groups. The vast majority of units that are built are done so by merchant developers that sell after stabilization.
     
     
  #14429  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 5:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Easy View Post
By "now it doesn't make sense" are you referring to ULA? I'm not following.
Yes, you said, "I'm waiting to see the impact before calling it a failure" and I'm saying it's already having an effect less than a year in.
     
     
  #14430  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 5:48 AM
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Jeremy Triggs/facebook


Jeremy Triggs/facebook

Jeremy Triggs
According to Urbanize, the long neglected Garfield building sold for 19 mil to a Bay Area company planning to convert it to a hotel. Any intel?

Matt Goulet
The property sold on March 27, 2023 for $19 million ($5 million paid, $19 million loan) to Garfield Building LA LLC which has its ownership mailing address at 235 Berry Street, Apt 608, San Francisco, CA 94158. This address is a private 2 bedroom, 2 bath residential condominium unit, owned by a Wendy Hemming.

David Anderson
Industrial strength graffiti (vandalism). Clearly the building has not been secured very well.

Jeremy Triggs
David Anderson I hope the new owners secure the building, it gets worse every week
.

If taggers put as much skill, drive, daring & commitment into other thngs as they invest in graffiti, they'd be engineers, brain surgeons or top athletes in the NFL or NBA.
.
     
     
  #14431  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 4:44 PM
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If taggers put as much skill, drive, daring & commitment into other thngs as they invest in graffiti, they'd be engineers, brain surgeons or top athletes in the NFL or NBA.
.
The speed with which this forum becomes a cesspool of vaguely racist and definitely toxic comments when there's no direct development news being discussed is absurd.
     
     
  #14432  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 6:51 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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Agreed
     
     
  #14433  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 7:50 PM
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100 %
     
     
  #14434  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2023, 7:58 PM
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The registered name of Garfield Building LA LLC can be found in the Sec of State's search engine....

https://bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business




Not sure if the owner's business address being a residence instead of a commercial location necessarily means the new owner is more or less reliable & more likely or less likely to go forward on the Garfield's reported renovation. That question is the first thing that struck me when I saw the posting about the garfield on facebook. Why other ppl don't find such questions as equally interesting is puzzling.

The garfield at 8th & Hill has long needed to be finally cleaned up & added to the parts of the puzzle in an area which prior to the freehand hotel was in really bad shape. That's another subj that's apparently more interesting to me than it is to other ppl.
     
     
  #14435  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Radio5 View Post
Yes, you said, "I'm waiting to see the impact before calling it a failure" and I'm saying it's already having an effect less than a year in.
Thanks. I thought so but didn't want to assume. The tax only applies on sales so if you were planning on building something and then selling it, then the tax would apply. If not selling, I don't understand how the tax impacts directly.

And I wouldn't assume that the tax burden would fall only on the seller. Given that the tax applies to all properties, new and old, it seems like it would make all applicable properties 5% more expensive. I can see where investment demand from buyers is low now given the outstanding lawsuits. No one wants to pay a premium. But if that becomes the new normal, it's baked into the cost.

That's my thought anyway. It probably does deter some investment, especially short term but at some point becomes the cost of business.
     
     
  #14436  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 12:14 AM
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Did someone mention mansion tax?

From CoStar:

Los Angeles Mansion Tax Supporters Want To Spend Money Now

City Hasn't Doled Out Levy Collections for Rental Assistance, Affordable Housing

By Jack Witthaus
CoStar News

August 7, 2023 | 2:57 P.M.

Funds raised by a Los Angeles tax on property sales above $5 million that has rankled real estate professionals and business leaders may soon start getting spent on projects aimed at alleviating L.A.'s housing and homelessness issues.

Supporters and city officials are kickstarting efforts to spend the dollars collected by the new tax, called Measure ULA and nicknamed the "mansion tax." The tax, affecting nearly all property sales and transfers in the city of Los Angeles above $5 million, has been collected since April but spending hasn't yet been approved.

L.A.'s city council and the mayor are being asked to approve mansion tax spending on funds to protect seniors from eviction, provide legal support for tenants and create affordable housing, according to city documents. The mayor and city council must sign off on how to spend the collected mansion tax revenue.

It's uncertain how much money the tax will collect in coming months and whether the tax can survive legal challenges and a statewide vote next year. That said, other cities, including Chicago, are watching how L.A.'s mansion tax unfolds to model similar taxes to combat housing issues. California has the nation's largest number of homeless people, according to the Washington, D.C.-based National Alliance to End Homelessness.

The city's apartment renters were required on Aug. 1 to pay back missing rent due between March 1, 2020, and Sept. 30, 2021, as COVID-19 protections expired in the city of Los Angeles. Renters are required to pay rent between Oct. 1, 2021, and Jan. 31, 2023, on Feb. 24, 2024.

"We will do all we can to ensure that a wave of evictions does not hit our city as we continue confronting the homelessness crisis,” Mayor Karen Bass said in a statement on July 27 about the missing rent payment deadlines.

Collections Reach $38 Million

The mansion tax so far has collected $38 million, according to city documents. That's well short of the estimated $672 million annually the tax was expected to contribute to funding efforts aimed at combating housing issues. Still, the tax generated a combined $15.5 million in in April and May.

Eli Lipmen — executive director of nonprofit Move LA, which helped write Measure ULA — said homelessness and affordable housing are urgent problems and the new tax monies need to be spent now. Move LA sent an email on Thursday asking for people to reach out to their councilmembers to "cut the red tape and keep the implementation of Measure ULA on track by treating homelessness with the urgency it deserves."

He added that "the sooner and quicker we can spend that money" the better.

The city of Los Angeles is mandated to implement and spend the tax revenue, but the city may have to refund the money it collects if it loses lawsuits attempting to strike down the tax. The city aims to spend up to $150 million in Measure ULA revenue. That $150 million is backed up by Federal Emergency Management Agency reimbursements to the city's general fund should the city have to refund the mansion tax revenue.

The next court date for the lawsuits is in late September, and claims must be filed with the city in order to get a refund for mansion tax money if the lawsuits prevail. Refunds aren't expected to be available if the statewide ballot measure Taxpayer Protection and Government Accountability Act passes in November 2024. If passed, the ballot measure is expected to derail the mansion tax and other similar transfer taxes statewide.

Link: https://www.costar.com/article/192105673...n-tax-supporters-want-to-spend-money-now
     
     
  #14437  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 2:26 AM
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Wouldn't hold my breath on a few million with the mansion tax. $17 BILLION spent in four years and it got worse.


California has spent billions to fight homelessness. The problem has gotten worse
By Nick Watt, CNN
Updated 11:41 PM EDT, Tue July 11, 2023

Los Angeles CNN —
California has spent a stunning $17.5 billion trying to combat homelessness over just four years. But, in the same time frame, from 2018 to 2022, the state’s homeless population actually grew. Half of all Americans living outside on the streets, federal data shows, live in California.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/us/california-homeless-spending/index.html
     
     
  #14438  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 5:08 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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Ula is going to die in lawsuits or next November.

The tax payer protection act wording is brilliant
Its going to pass regardless
     
     
  #14439  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 6:28 AM
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LAisthePlace LAisthePlace is offline
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Ula is going to die in lawsuits or next November.

The tax payer protection act wording is brilliant
Its going to pass regardless
I really hope ULA dies and then comes back as a true mansion tax on Single Family Homes (aka actual mansions) and we actually incentivize/make it easier to build multi-family housing, offices and hotels.
     
     
  #14440  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 11:57 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
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Originally Posted by LAisthePlace View Post
I really hope ULA dies and then comes back as a true mansion tax on Single Family Homes (aka actual mansions) and we actually incentivize/make it easier to build multi-family housing, offices and hotels.
I want it to die completely because I can't stand the dishonest people who created it .
They deserve to get embarrassed and to fail. I don't trust them at all. — em. If they're dishonest on the ballot, theyr gonna be dishonest with the money. They don't deserve a dime. They tricked the voters calling it a mansion tax and not what it really was.

Voters are gonna be very annoyed if they see these "taxes" on a ballot again.

They're getting nowhere near the money they expected. I'm just laughing at them.

Last edited by LA21st; Aug 9, 2023 at 12:08 PM.
     
     
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