Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I don't find this weird at all. AC doesn't have widebodies sitting around. So YOW would have to have a yield potential that exceeds some other YYC, YUL, YVR or YYZ route substantially enough to justify pulling a widebody off that route and incurring operations startup costs here. That is a high bar to climb.

Yes of course you're right, but at the same time I am assuming there are other factors to consider when carriers launch/re-launch routes (including moving frames). For example, I don't know the numbers but I presume AC is not happy AF taking ~9000-10000 potential pax per month to Paris and beyond (and the other way around), potential pax that could have filled their flights in YYZ and YUL. You'd think in that case they would hurry up with YOW-FRA. Also, right now AF is solidifying a customer base in YOW. Some members on this forum and myself cannot be the only ones who detests AC's stance at YOW and because of that AF is currently starting to steal loyalty. It's not always about current numbers and logistics, although of course it's a big part. Sometimes routes are started strategically other than selecting the route that will fill the flight more.

On that note, is AC still connecting traffic through YYC after the demotion to focus city? If not, how are they competing with WS's Europe service with BOTH LHR and FRA from there? Maybe move one of those to YOW if they care to keep a client base.

[YOWhopeful]

Can someone tell me how to upload pics?

[YOWflier]

Upload your pic to free service imgbb. When complete copy the “bbcode full linked” text (embed code pull-down menu) then paste here and post.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by YOWhopeful

Can someone tell me how to upload pics?

Also take a look at https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246386

[YOWhopeful]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

Upload your pic to free service imgbb. When complete copy the “bbcode full linked” text (embed code pull-down menu) then paste here and post.

Thanks but wasn’t able to post the pic directly

[YOWhopeful]

https://ibb.co/jkVypj5
https://ibb.co/rfRfzdr
https://ibb.co/gZ33MMy

Just returned from trip to Europe on AF 327/328 in business. Great product!

[YOWflier]

For any of the pics you linked you simply copy the bbcode text below the photo and paste it here and post. Above is what you get.

[solo748]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Why do you think that?
A 321XLR with lie flat J class is about 180 seats. AF 332 has 224 seats and AF 789 has 279 seats. So 10x/wk 321XLR is 15% more seats over daily 332 and 8% fewer seats over daily 789. It's not as out there as you think. It's also a less premium product, so they wouldn't need as much business traffic to justify increasing frequencies. Contingent, of course, on AF get 321XLRs.

What "problem" does AF face on YOW that running double-daily OPS solve? Lower premium demand, so they incur the crewing + operational + opportunity costs of double daily ops?? The whole notion is just so illogical

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Eventually AC will probably start 321XLR ops from Ottawa to at least FRA or MUC

Agreed. to LHR and/or FRA

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And if AF doesn't eventually up its game, it's very possible to see AC competing on YOW-CDG with a 321XLR too.

Another ridiculous assertion.

[solo748]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I don't think this is farfetched at all. Increased frequency would be a competitive threat to AC, something that AF may not be able to do on a wide body. The only thing I find silly is the fact that AC is actually waiting for the XLR's while this city is clearly proving that a wide body to Europe can be successfully filled. FRA and LHR are my only expectation from AC as they clearly do not care about our market, evident by the fact that they still have not put out a response to PD's operations from here. Whether they prove me wrong or not is still TBA. If they expand beyond that with the XLR's like for example AMS, LIS, BCN, I will be happy to admit I was wrong about them and let my strong negative views go. Until then, my support goes to AF. It's time for AC to put their money where their mouth is, because apparently they would not operate to Europe from YOW since there is no market for a wide body.

You and the other poster. Holy.
Lisbon, portugal. I mean, this has to be a joke.
I can appreciate your passion for your city but you need to understand market dynamics and traffic patterns, cost, systemwide scheduling, demand, yield and 100 other things.
Airlines don't cancel profitable flying unless there is higher profit to be made elsewhere. There is no one in a corner office at AC with a grudge against YOW.

[YOWhopeful]

Originally Posted by YOWflier

For any of the pics you linked you simply copy the bbcode text below the photo and paste it here and post. Above is what you get.

I must be slow but can’t figure out what you did. Please feel free to open the other two and post. I appreciate your help

[YOWhopeful]

Returned yesterday from CDG on AF328. I overheard a few conversations. Lots of Europeans starting their Canadian adventure in Ottawa. One in particular was a German family travelling to Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City and that was starting and ending their trip in Ottawa. Perhaps because the price was right but that seemed like great news for Ottawa Tourism.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by solo748

You and the other poster. Holy.
Lisbon, portugal. I mean, this has to be a joke.
I can appreciate your passion for your city but you need to understand market dynamics and traffic patterns, cost, systemwide scheduling, demand, yield and 100 other things.
Airlines don't cancel profitable flying unless there is higher profit to be made elsewhere. There is no one in a corner office at AC with a grudge against YOW.

How about you let people have their opinions rather than calling them ridiculous and a "joke". You must be working for AC, there can't be any other explanation for your aggressiveness and the fact that you have so much access to data that you are THAT sure of yourself. What a joke. It took YOW to present how many people are driving to YUL for AF to initiate the current route they operate. Do you have such data? I can appreciate your different point of view and on the contrary, I really enjoy reading about what others think especially those with different opinions than my own, but you can do it politely.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by YOWhopeful

I must be slow but can’t figure out what you did. Please feel free to open the other two and post. I appreciate your help

Here they are in thumbnail format. Can be clicked on for full size.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by solo748

What "problem" does AF face on YOW that running double-daily OPS solve? Lower premium demand, so they incur the crewing + operational + opportunity costs of double daily ops?? The whole notion is just so illogical

So illogical that all those airlines are ordering the XLR by the plane load?

Going to double daily on any route let's them increase the number of seats a bit while substantially increasing convenience, for which they can probably extract some additional premium. That would be the point. With your logic, AC should reduce their Heathrow flights to a single A380 each from YVR, YYZ and YUL.

Originally Posted by solo748

Another ridiculous assertion.

30 XLRs are going to go somewhere. Not saying YOW-CDG is the best candidate. But it's not the worst either.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

How about you let people have their opinions rather than calling them ridiculous and a "joke". You must be working for AC, there can't be any other explanation for your aggressiveness and the fact that you have so much access to data that you are THAT sure of yourself.

Definitely has that, "My pay or perks depend on Air Canada," energy.

[solo748]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

How about you let people have their opinions rather than calling them ridiculous and a "joke". You must be working for AC, there can't be any other explanation for your aggressiveness and the fact that you have so much access to data that you are THAT sure of yourself. What a joke.

Of course you can post any opinion you want here. Casual readers and local residents need to know how logical those opinions are.

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

It took YOW to present how many people are driving to YUL for AF to initiate the current route they operate.

Yet another example of a totally uninformed opinion stated as fact. Do you have any idea who the CEO of AF/KLM is? Do you know where he worked for 20 years and in which role?? Do you know WHERE HE LIVED for majority of his time at AC???
There aren't 10 people on Earth who know Ottawa's air travel market better than the guy who heads AF.
Yet, you post (as fact, btw) that it was some powerpoint presentation from the do-nothings at YOW to convince AF to YOW.

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Do you have such data? I can appreciate your different point of view and on the contrary, I really enjoy reading about what others think especially those with different opinions than my own, but you can do it politely.

I'll work on my politeness. You continue reading and getting as informed as you can. Until then, frame your posts as opinion when that's all they are

[solo748]

Another one ....

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Going to double daily on any route let's them increase the number of seats a bit while substantially increasing convenience, for which they can probably extract some additional premium.

a) they can increase seats by upgauging.
b) what would the added convenience be? What times are you running this 2nd daily? What departure banks and destinations are you getting the additional premium not served by the perfectly timed current flight?

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

With your logic, AC should reduce their Heathrow flights to a single A380 each from YVR, YYZ and YUL.

"With my logic" lol,
AC often send their biggest gauge to LHR. There is incredible demand and origin-connectivity (i.e, funnel pax from all over canada/usa thru YYZ)

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

30 XLRs are going to go somewhere. Not saying YOW-CDG is the best candidate. But it's not the worst either.

No doubt YOW is prime market for the XLR - LHR, FRA/MUC

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by solo748

Yet another example of a totally uninformed opinion stated as fact. Do you have any idea who the CEO of AF/KLM is? Do you know where he worked for 20 years and in which role?? Do you know WHERE HE LIVED for majority of his time at AC???
There aren't 10 people on Earth who know Ottawa's air travel market better than the guy who heads AF.
Yet, you post (as fact, btw) that it was some powerpoint presentation from the do-nothings at YOW to convince AF to YOW.

As a matter of fact I know exactly who this guy is, ever since I read this article:

https://obj.ca/paris-flight-benefit-business-both-sides-of-the-atlantic/

And I quote from https://obj.ca/use-it-or-lose-it-new-ott...ore-than-just-excitement-to-take-flight/ :

"Despite being local residents, 57 per cent of Paris-bound travellers from the Ottawa-Gatineau catchment are not reflected in YOW’s passenger volume because they started and ended their trip at another airport. This hurts the Airport Authority’s ability to attract future routes to YOW because the data understates true demand while over-inflating the nearby alternatives. When it comes to Paris, pre-pandemic, the estimated true Ottawa-Gatineau to/from Paris market was over 80,000 annual passengers and unserved, a key selling point for Air France."

In no way have I stated what I said in previous posts were facts. If you (or anyone else lurking this forum) can't decipher what is said on here as facts or opinions without a disclaimer from each post, then that sounds like a you problem. As a general rule of thumb though, I usually post articles or quotes when stating facts and something that has not happened yet and was not stated in any article or quote is an opinion. Just FYI.

[Djeffery]

I actually wasn't aware Ben Smith was CEO of Air France now, but I'm happy for him. I remember posting back and forth with him on Flyertalk over 15 years ago, I think before he became CCO at AC. He was their designated representative on that site. The guy sure knew his stuff, so it's no surprise to see him at the top of a major worldwide airline group.

[Dominion301]

Today's departure count: 74

Today's cancellation count (so far): 3