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  #14381  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2023, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Why does the project description still say this?



If true though:

51 floors and not even 54? Yikes, I wonder if that's counting mechanical. ~600 feet is at least still somewhat decent I just hope they don't shorten it more.

Let's hope Mitsui doesn't also get chopped.

Seems Angels Landing also may not happen anymore due to the Adjaye scandal and 1045 Olive is a dark horse. Was really looking forward to more skyscrapers downtown...

Bloc Tower maybe?
Isnt Adjaye just the architectural firm? That could easily be rectified
     
     
  #14382  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2023, 11:38 PM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Seems Angels Landing also may not happen anymore due to the Adjaye scandal and 1045 Olive is a dark horse. Was really looking forward to more skyscrapers downtown...
Handel Architects is designing Angels Landing. Adjaye was never on it as architect and the developers (Peebles and MacFarlane) were never a part of any scandal. Angels Landing will break ground next year. MacFarlane already budgeted for a recession in this time years ago as he stated in an interview and that they would break ground in 2024 and be open by 2027/2028. The timeline has always been the same

Last edited by hughfb3; Aug 1, 2023 at 11:52 PM.
     
     
  #14383  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 12:36 AM
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More bad news. Looking at LA's Zimas page for this project, it shows that Onni changed the building address to 230 W Olympic (no biggie but that's where to look) and also filed construction plans for a 54 story building in September 2022. Oh well.
     
     
  #14384  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 1:30 AM
LAnative61 LAnative61 is offline
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Originally Posted by Easy View Post
More bad news. Looking at LA's Zimas page for this project, it shows that Onni changed the building address to 230 W Olympic (no biggie but that's where to look) and also filed construction plans for a 54 story building in September 2022. Oh well.
So, it seems like every high-rise completed in the last five years has been reduced in floors/height? I know all three of the Onni towers are shorter than originally planned, and 8th & Fig are for sure. I believe the Beaudry is also slightly shorter. What else?
     
     
  #14385  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 1:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hughfb3 View Post
Handel Architects is designing Angels Landing. Adjaye was never on it as architect and the developers (Peebles and MacFarlane) were never a part of any scandal. Angels Landing will break ground next year. MacFarlane already budgeted for a recession in this time years ago as he stated in an interview and that they would break ground in 2024 and be open by 2027/2028. The timeline has always been the same
Sorry I think that was the NY project. I do remember reading something about either him or the Peebles corp. being less willing to work on the project due to Kevin De Leon's racist comments leaking (last year I think?).

I'm not 100% sure at all but read something like that.

Not holding my breath for Angels Landing or any LA project these days tbh.


Quote:
More bad news. Looking at LA's Zimas page for this project, it shows that Onni changed the building address to 230 W Olympic (no biggie but that's where to look) and also filed construction plans for a 54 story building in September 2022. Oh well.
How was that missed for a whole year?

I guess they lowered the floor heights too because 54 would still put it in the 600s.

Looks like it's 590' to the roof though. I Googled 230 W Olympic and apparently that's been the address for a while now, although all sources still say 760 / 60 fl.
     
     
  #14386  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 2:04 AM
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Originally Posted by LAnative61 View Post
So, it seems like every high-rise completed in the last five years has been reduced in floors/height? I know all three of the Onni towers are shorter than originally planned, and 8th & Fig are for sure. I believe the Beaudry is also slightly shorter. What else?
I don't believe Beadry was shortened. Source?
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  #14387  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 3:29 PM
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I don't believe Beadry was shortened. Source?
I think it was originally 735' or 695' and is now 655'.

Not sure though it does look 695' from some angles.
     
     
  #14388  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 4:02 PM
LAnative61 LAnative61 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I think it was originally 735' or 695' and is now 655'.

Not sure though it does look 695' from some angles.
I don't have a source, but I think it's a little shy of the originally planned 695'. Based on a comparison with the 777 tower.
     
     
  #14389  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy View Post
More bad news. Looking at LA's Zimas page for this project, it shows that Onni changed the building address to 230 W Olympic (no biggie but that's where to look) and also filed construction plans for a 54 story building in September 2022. Oh well.
That sucks. This building was going to be LA's fourth tallest tower and make a big impact on the skyline. While a 54 story tower is still a good addition, it will now be middle of the pack.
     
     
  #14390  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 6:51 PM
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That sucks. This building was going to be LA's fourth tallest tower and make a big impact on the skyline. While a 54 story tower is still a good addition, it will now be middle of the pack.
Yea, any 500+ footer is news in LA so if this doesn't get shortened further and Mustui Tower doesn't get chopped too much I'm still somewhat happy. Two more official nice looking skyscrapers.

Where is the official link to the 590' confirmation? Still can't find anything.

Why would Onni build shorter anyway if they got the taller version approved? Is the residential market that bad in DTLA?
     
     
  #14391  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 6:56 PM
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Yea, any 500+ footer is news in LA so if this doesn't get shortened further and Mustui Tower doesn't get chopped too much I'm still somewhat happy. Two more official nice looking skyscrapers.

Where is the official link to the 590' confirmation? Still can't find anything.

Why would Onni build shorter anyway if they got the taller version approved? Is the residential market that bad in DTLA?
Let's use some critical thinking here. Would a 54 story residential tower get built in a bad residential market? Have you not heard of the soaring costs of materials and labor? I have no insider information here, but if I had to make an educated guess, I would say that costs have risen from when the building was proposed, and it no longer pencils out to build the tower to original specs.
     
     
  #14392  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 7:00 PM
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  #14393  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Let's use some critical thinking here. Would a 54 story residential tower get built in a bad residential market? Have you not heard of the soaring costs of materials and labor? I have no insider information here, but if I had to make an educated guess, I would say that costs have risen from when the building was proposed, and it no longer pencils out to build the tower to original specs.
No, I've not heard / am not an expert on the matter, that's why I was asking if the market was that bad. The views from the top of the taller building would've potentially been way better / i.e. more lucrative though.

Well anyway that sucks, wouldn't have expected the costs to be that different within just a few years. I wonder if LA will see another ~800 footer within the next decade or so.
     
     
  #14394  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 10:47 PM
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^ The Fed increased interest rates a week ago. Higher construction costs — borrowing, labor, materials — would require rental price increases (rental prices in LA are still sky-high) or a downsizing of the project to maintain expected profit margins.
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  #14395  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 10:49 PM
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Looks like it's 590' to the roof though. I Googled 230 W Olympic and apparently that's been the address for a while now, although all sources still say 760 / 60 fl.
A 6-floor reduction is resulting in a 170-foot decline in height?
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  #14396  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2023, 11:05 PM
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594' is still a pretty tall building, and 230 W. Olympic will still expand the skyline to the south and east.
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  #14397  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 2:42 PM
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From CoStar:

Los Angeles Skyscraper, Unfinished and for Sale, Draws Potential Buyers — And New Ideas

Partially Built Oceanwide Plaza Near Crypto.com Arena Sits on Market for Over a Year


Construction officially halted on the Oceanwide Plaza project in downtown Los Angeles in late 2020 after the developer said it ran out of cash. (CoStar)

By Jack Witthaus
CoStar News
August 2, 2023 | 4:05 P.M.

Potential buyers are mulling a different future for an unfinished skyscraper project — considered an eyesore by some as it looms over downtown Los Angeles — that's years away from completion and may cost hundreds of millions of dollars to finish.

Some investors looking at buying Oceanwide Plaza see the project needing a different design because real estate demands have shifted since construction began in 2015, four people with knowledge of sales talks said. Oceanwide Plaza, on the market for more than a year, was expected to feature upscale condominiums, a five-star hotel, a mall and the largest LED sign on the West Coast. Instead, the vacant building's shell displays tarps in some places and exposed beams in others to hundreds of thousands of motorists driving past downtown daily on Interstate 10 and Interstate 110, among the nation’s busiest highways.

So far, nothing is set about the project's future and no buyer has been identified for the high-profile site at 1100-1198 S. Flower St. near Crypto.com Arena and the Los Angeles Convention Center. Construction halted after China-based developer China Oceanwide said it ran out of cash for the project, featuring a 53-story tower, that has no asking price but that property professionals say could fetch hundreds of millions dollars.

The unfinished structure looming over the downtown of the nation's second-biggest city reflects the economic struggles some property owners across the United States are trying to shake more than three years after the pandemic struck. For Los Angeles, it's also a tangible sign of a pullback in financing among some investors from China in a cooling global economy as the city needs residential housing.

"It can't sit there as blight — especially since we're in a housing crisis," said Hal Bastian, a property broker and former director of development for the Los Angeles Downtown Center Business Improvement District.

Potential investors have speculated about a range of new uses they'd want to see at Oceanwide Plaza, with some buyers suggesting the condos need to be converted into apartments, and the multifamily units need to be smaller than the current size plan for the condos, the people familiar with the talks said. The retail component, too, has been mulled for different uses, including residential, by potential investors after demand shifted for that property type as more consumers turned to online shopping in the pandemic.

Some buyers have even more dramatic ideas about the project, including the outright demolition of at least parts of Oceanwide Plaza that they say could be less expensive to rebuild than to retrofit, according to three of the real estate professionals with knowledge of the sales discussions. Concerns mentioned include parts of Oceanwide Plaza suffering wear and tear and materials no longer being on site after construction stopped in October 2020.

A representative for China Oceanwide didn't respond to an email and a phone call requesting a comment. A representative for Lendlease, the project's contractor, declined to comment, citing litigation with the developer. Lawsuits and liens have been filed against the developer since 2019, further complicating a construction restart, according to a filing with the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

Structural Reassessment

Meanwhile, a representative for the Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety said in an email that the department is not aware of any safety issues within its purview and there are no outstanding orders to comply with that would require a new owner to demolish any part of the project. Changes to the project would require permits from the city and inspections after construction.

Any demolition, if it happened, could be historic in the city of Los Angeles. The city building and safety department said it doesn't have records of any buildings demolished exceeding Oceanwide Plaza's height and size, the department's representative said in the email.

China Oceanwide said in March it has received letters of intent from several potential purchasers of its three-tower Oceanwide Plaza development, according to the filing with the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

At the time, the developer had no definitive agreement to sell Oceanwide Plaza, but said it expected the property's disposition to occur by the end of 2023. China Oceanwide has not disclosed the identity of any potential buyers. The move toward a sale comes as some investors from China have been pulling money out of Los Angeles real estate.

Real estate professionals who aren't involved with Oceanwide Plaza had mixed feelings when asked whether they thought it made sense for any parts of Oceanwide Plaza to be taken down. The property's next owner still will need to inject a substantial sum to complete the development, said Sonnet Hui, vice president and general manager of real estate consultant Project Management Advisors.

China Oceanwide has said in filings the project may need two years to wrap up construction. Hui estimated that as of November 2022 it would have cost $1 billion to finish Oceanwide Plaza, a high price that complicates financing efforts.

Oceanwide Plaza also has sat exposed and unprotected for several years and certain aspects of the building may be in need of repairs or replacement, Hui said. However, it may behoove the new owner to look at fixing the property's issues individually instead of looking at disassembling, he said.

The next owner may also want to reimagine the property's retail component and create smaller floor plans for the residential units that are now too large for the market, Hui said.

"While tearing down the building would allow for a fresh start, the building structure is so advanced that too much value would be lost," Hui said. "A more reasonable approach would be to remove everything except for the superstructure."

Assessing Costs, Demand

Deepansh Kathuria — principal of structural engineering firm Miyamoto International in Los Angeles and who isn't involved in the project — said he doubted there were structural concerns with Oceanwide Plaza.

Kathruia said that in general any talk of partial demolition may speak more to concern about an overall construction process that simply halted — for years. Kathruia said development and construction need to be a well-oiled machine with collaboration from everyone in order to find success and avoid having to go back and make any repairs.

Getting rid of the multifamily portions of the property, though, would be unusual and would come at a cost for Los Angeles because of the housing shortage, apartment brokers not involved in the development said. Oceanwide Plaza is planned to feature for-sale condo units, not apartments, but real estate analysts have long speculated those units could be converted into multifamily should condo demand not prove strong enough in downtown L.A. The developer of a nearby 56-story project converted its for-sale condos into multifamily when it opened in 2019.

David Evans, a senior multifamily associate of Kidder Matthews who isn't involved in the project, said from his day-to-day work buying and selling multifamily properties around greater Los Angeles he sees potential concerns for the building's future owner including insurance costs, a new sales tax that affects commercial properties and broader economic headwinds facing apartments in downtown Los Angeles. Since April 1, any property sold or transferred above $10 million in the city of L.A. is subject to a 5.5% mansion tax.

Downtown L.A.'s apartment market has seen vacancy rise from 6.4% to 11% in the past year, according to CoStar data. Meanwhile, average apartment asking rents in downtown L.A. have fallen to $2,793 from $2,830 one year ago.

Bastian said it wouldn't make financial sense to do a largescale rebuilding of Oceanwide Plaza, though it doesn't make sense for the project to just keep sitting.

"We sent men to the moon in July 1969," Bastian said. "We can figure this out."

Link: https://www.costar.com/article/203021736...potential-buyers-%E2%80%94-and-new-ideas
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  #14398  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 5:26 PM
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I hope it gets a good new plan. I agree that less retail is called for. Developing a whole mall seemed curious even when it was proposed. I hope it ends up with more housing.
     
     
  #14399  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 5:46 PM
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These are the parts of that article that stood out to me....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
From CoStar:

Potential investors have speculated about a range of new uses they'd want to see at Oceanwide Plaza, with some buyers suggesting the condos need to be converted into apartments, and the multifamily units need to be smaller than the current size plan for the condos, the people familiar with the talks said. The retail component, too, has been mulled for different uses, including residential, by potential investors after demand shifted for that property type as more consumers turned to online shopping in the pandemic.

Meanwhile, a representative for the Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety said in an email that the department is not aware of any safety issues within its purview and there are no outstanding orders to comply with that would require a new owner to demolish any part of the project.

Real estate professionals who aren't involved with Oceanwide Plaza had mixed feelings when asked whether they thought it made sense for any parts of Oceanwide Plaza to be taken down.

Oceanwide Plaza also has sat exposed and unprotected for several years and certain aspects of the building may be in need of repairs or replacement, Hui said. However, it may behoove the new owner to look at fixing the property's issues individually instead of looking at disassembling, he said.

Downtown L.A.'s apartment market has seen vacancy rise from 6.4% to 11% in the past year, according to CoStar data. Meanwhile, average apartment asking rents in downtown L.A. have fallen to $2,793 from $2,830 one year ago.

It would be nice if this part of the proj could be supported by today's economy, but that's not too likely. There's a major fancy shopping ctr in SF that's going into receivership & many of its tenants have closed down. If retail can't survive in a city like that, dtla is even iffier.


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  #14400  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2023, 6:58 PM
Zapatan Zapatan is offline
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Yea maybe rentals would be the way to go for Oceanwide, good to know that it's supposedly (at least) still structurally sound.

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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
A 6-floor reduction is resulting in a 170-foot decline in height?
Seems like they shrunk the ceilings. Aside from the drawing a few pages back I have yet to find any official confirmation of the height chop, even many articles from this year still mention 760 / 60fl (I guess people weren't informed if true).

Quote:
^ The Fed increased interest rates a week ago. Higher construction costs — borrowing, labor, materials — would require rental price increases (rental prices in LA are still sky-high) or a downsizing of the project to maintain expected profit margins.
That doesn't bode well for future projects, were they increased nationwide or is this just in California?

Quote:
594' is still a pretty tall building, and 230 W. Olympic will still expand the skyline to the south and east.
In LA any official skyscraper is exciting but I would expect this city to have 2 - 3 times as many as it does and some well taller ones.

Someday I hope that changes.
     
     
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