The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[MisterMillionz]

Super excited to see it in action! Looks like the inauguration went smoothly today.

[Reecemartin]

After what feels like decades covering the project, the Montreal REM is finally open; it's fast, frequent, modern, and now we've finally gotten the chance to get onboard - so come along and check it out with us!

https://youtu.be/g9O6RzsXIqQ

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

After what feels like decades covering the project, the Montreal REM is finally open; it's fast, frequent, modern, and now we've finally gotten the chance to get onboard - so come along and check it out with us!

• Video Link

this is what the Eglinton Crosstown and O-Train should have been. well all new transit line in Canad areally, looking at you Edmonton, Waterloo and Mississauga

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Nite

this is what the Eglinton Crosstown and O-Train should have been. well all new transit line in Canad areally, looking at you Edmonton, Waterloo and Mississauga

And this one was somehow cheaper per kilometer than the O-Train, and WAY cheaper than Crosstown.

[someone123]

I am open to having my mind changed on this but I have always thought that Montreal has the best and most coherent transit system in Canada and the REM just makes the current gap wider as it's better than the expansions underway in Toronto or Vancouver.

There is a big contrast with Vancouver. Montreal has nicer stations, the subway covers the downtown core better, and the REM adds relatively fewer stops for people who are far out at the ends of the system. Some of this is historical and due to Montreal being an older and larger city but it has some good lessons.

The Millennium Line takes a long time to get downtown or to other major destinations like the airport at the outer reaches of the route and Langley SkyTrain plan is like this too. It'll be around 25 stops from Langley to Waterfront. I suspect this is related to politics, the lack of desire for infill in some inner areas, and a desire to spread transit to different districts or municipalities. I think we'd be better off with a service with fewer stops that went farther out into the Lower Mainland, with Langley having commuter rail or medium distance passenger rail style service along with Abbotsford or Chilliwack.

[Nite]

Some more REM videos

• Video Link

[Reecemartin]

I’ve got a video riding from the front of the REM!

Ride on the Montreal REM! | Timelapse Roundtrip Gare Centrale - Brossard
https://youtu.be/Q23mkh8rX88

[1overcosc]

It's amazing how this thing went from idea to reality in 8 years. Other transit projects in Canada spend about that long in discussion phases before construction even starts.

[1overcosc]

And let's not forget: in addition to being built fast, and a great service, taxpayers aren't even funding all of it. The private owner is footing half the construction cost.

Montreal easily wins the gold medal on this one.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

And let's not forget: in addition to being built fast, and a great service, taxpayers aren't even funding all of it. The private owner is footing half the construction cost.

Montreal easily wins the gold medal on this one.

And the CDPQ is Quebec's pension fund manager. So it's more than a gold medal, it's a diamond medal.
https://www.cdpq.com/en/rem

They also invest a lot in Quebec,
https://www.cdpq.com/en/performance/impact-activites

[casper]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am open to having my mind changed on this but I have always thought that Montreal has the best and most coherent transit system in Canada and the REM just makes the current gap wider as it's better than the expansions underway in Toronto or Vancouver.

There is a big contrast with Vancouver. Montreal has nicer stations, the subway covers the downtown core better, and the REM adds relatively fewer stops for people who are far out at the ends of the system. Some of this is historical and due to Montreal being an older and larger city but it has some good lessons.

The Millennium Line takes a long time to get downtown or to other major destinations like the airport at the outer reaches of the route and Langley SkyTrain plan is like this too. It'll be around 25 stops from Langley to Waterfront. I suspect this is related to politics, the lack of desire for infill in some inner areas, and a desire to spread transit to different districts or municipalities. I think we'd be better off with a service with fewer stops that went farther out into the Lower Mainland, with Langley having commuter rail or medium distance passenger rail style service along with Abbotsford or Chilliwack.

The Montreal REM is impressive. I agree Montreal is on the right track.

Toronto is a lost cause. They had the start of an automated rapid transit system. The same technology that became the backbone of the Vancouver system. They not only ignored it but are now walking away from that. They will continue to add to their system but it will be a slow go and lack real driverless automation. At least they are advancing the GO system, they have that going for them.

For the Lower mainland the key difference is downtown Vancouver is not in the center of the region. It is at the extreme end. The Lower mainland has also been becoming more decentralised over the years with Surrey starting to become a major CBD in its own right.

I think they need to look at some "low cost" and quick win solutions. The old interuban line from Surrey to Chilliwack would be one of the cheapest lines to bring back into service with commuter rail or some time of suburban railway technology. The stops are less that idea based on the current population centers. That is ok, we need to stimulate housing developments and it we can do that along that line that would be idea.

Maybe extend WestCoat Express to Abbotsford to provide an express service into downtown Vancouver that connects with the interurban line.

But we are not going to do the quick low cost win. We are going to focus on expensive subway expansions. Just like Toronto.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by casper

....
For the Lower mainland the key difference is downtown Vancouver is not in the center of the region. It is at the extreme end. The Lower mainland has also been becoming more decentralised over the years with Surrey starting to become a major CBD in its own right.

I think they need to look at some "low cost" and quick win solutions. The old interuban line from Surrey to Chilliwack would be one of the cheapest lines to bring back into service with commuter rail or some time of suburban railway technology. The stops are less that idea based on the current population centers. That is ok, we need to stimulate housing developments and it we can do that along that line that would be idea.

Maybe extend WestCoat Express to Abbotsford to provide an express service into downtown Vancouver that connects with the interurban line.

But we are not going to do the quick low cost win. We are going to focus on expensive subway expansions. Just like Toronto.

To be fair, TransLink's recent plans do include the current and future RapidBus lines along with proposed BRT lines (such as for the North Shore) with the idea that they can get this into service relatively quickly.

[p_xavier]

Montreal Metro highest ridership in Canada and second in North America (minus Mexico I assume)

https://journalmetro.com/actualites/mont...ieme-plus-achalande-en-amerique-du-nord/

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

Montreal Metro highest ridership in Canada and second in North America (minus Mexico I assume)

https://journalmetro.com/actualites/mont...ieme-plus-achalande-en-amerique-du-nord/

I’m very happy with how metro ridership has bounced back. It really underscores how essential it is to Montreal.

But the biggest takeaway from that table is how drastically, astonishingly low transit ridership is in the US outside NYC. Even star systems like DC (which has apparently improved a lot since the disasters of a few years ago) pale in comparison to Montreal and Toronto.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

Montreal Metro highest ridership in Canada and second in North America (minus Mexico I assume)

https://journalmetro.com/actualites/mont...ieme-plus-achalande-en-amerique-du-nord/

And third best recovery percentage compared to 2019 pre-covid ridership (after Vancouver and New York).


[Business in Vancouver] Apparently Vancouver is still growing: "TransLink's vice-president of transportation planning Sarah Ross told BIV in an interview that she has seen data for June that shows that ridership across the rapid-transit network and buses was 87 per cent of what it was in 2019."

[niwell]

Originally Posted by casper

The Montreal REM is impressive. I agree Montreal is on the right track.

Toronto is a lost cause. They had the start of an automated rapid transit system. The same technology that became the backbone of the Vancouver system. They not only ignored it but are now walking away from that. They will continue to add to their system but it will be a slow go and lack real driverless automation. At least they are advancing the GO system, they have that going for them.

How in the world is Toronto a lost cause? We suffered from years of inaction but now have the largest transit expansion in North America going on. The Scarborough RT was always an outlier system and given ridership levels going with subway to serve as the backbone of the system was the best choice. Automation has its place but isn’t the end-all be-all. FWIW the underground portion of the crosstown will be automated though obviously retains a driver. The Ontario line is slated to be fully automated and should look a bit like the REM, though unfortunately we don’t have as many quick wins with respect to corridors. GO RER will really be a step up from any existing commuter rail in Canada and put the system on a new level.

The TTCs big issue is operational funding and organization - this is extremely annoying but also the easiest fix.

[casper]

Originally Posted by niwell

How in the world is Toronto a lost cause? We suffered from years of inaction but now have the largest transit expansion in North America going on. The Scarborough RT was always an outlier system and given ridership levels going with subway to serve as the backbone of the system was the best choice. Automation has its place but isn’t the end-all be-all. FWIW the underground portion of the crosstown will be automated though obviously retains a driver. The Ontario line is slated to be fully automated and should look a bit like the REM, though unfortunately we don’t have as many quick wins with respect to corridors. GO RER will really be a step up from any existing commuter rail in Canada and put the system on a new level.

The TTCs big issue is operational funding and organization - this is extremely annoying but also the easiest fix.

The subway in Toronto is fine. Should be driverless but that is ok. Those are expensive to build.

I used the O-train in Ottawa for the first time a few months ago on a trip there. What a slow train. It is better than not having a rapid transit system, but at the same time they could have had something so much faster and without the labour costs of having a driver. Something like Skytrain in Vancouver.

My understanding is Toronto is using the same technology for their LRT lines.

If the Ontario line is to be something better and hopefully closer to Scarborough RT or Vancouver Skytrain that is good news.

[niwell]

The crosstown and o-train aren’t the same technology other than they are broadly LRT. A big part of the reason for recent delays on the crosstown is to make sure they don’t have the same teething problems when it’s handed over to the TTC. The rest is a debacle surrounding the P3 process which is very unfortunate. I’m confident the final product will work as intended though.

The sky train is very good for what it is but it’s wholly unsuitable for the capacity required by the TTC. Also not sure why we are so anti-labour but I am not shocked that diehard Liberal supporters are at the forefront…. I’ve literally seen the door guard on a TTC subway save someone’s life too.

[nname]

Originally Posted by niwell

The sky train is very good for what it is but it’s wholly unsuitable for the capacity required by the TTC.

Capacity is not limited to the technology. If you build the platform as long and the train as wide as the TTC subway, then it'll have the same capacity.

It'll probably have even more capacity since it is capable for running more frequent train than the current TTC signaling system.

[casper]

Originally Posted by niwell

The crosstown and o-train aren’t the same technology other than they are broadly LRT. A big part of the reason for recent delays on the crosstown is to make sure they don’t have the same teething problems when it’s handed over to the TTC. The rest is a debacle surrounding the P3 process which is very unfortunate. I’m confident the final product will work as intended though.

The sky train is very good for what it is but it’s wholly unsuitable for the capacity required by the TTC. Also not sure why we are so anti-labour but I am not shocked that diehard Liberal supporters are at the forefront…. I’ve literally seen the door guard on a TTC subway save someone’s life too.

Not so much being anti-labour as recognising we face demographic challenges and need to find ways of doing more with less people. Also makes it easier to ramp up and down service to deal with variations in demand.

Getting rid of drivers allows for more people who interact directly with travelers.