Most Canadian / Least Canadian

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Doug

I don’t see any Toronto in Auckland. It feels like a bigger version of Victoria.

It depends how you view it.

In landscape, I agree with you. Housing can be hit or miss, but it's in a much warmer climate. Walking down Queen Street gave a Toronto-ish vibe. Or driving south from the Auckland Habour Bridge on the Northern Motorway with the Sky Tower dominating was Toronto-esque.

In terms of the role it occupies in the national psyche, yes. Or how its demographics are different from the rest of NZ. Or how other Kiwis outside of Auckland viewed it. I can't say how the average Aucklander views the world, but I suspect the gaze looks towards Sydney, Asia or London moreso than Wellington, or the South Island.

I'm not making a definitive claim, but to one person's vibe, yes, there are similarities.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by wave46

It depends how you view it.

In landscape, I agree with you. Housing can be hit or miss, but it's in a much warmer climate. Walking down Queen Street gave a Toronto-ish vibe. Or driving south from the Auckland Habour Bridge on the Northern Motorway with the Sky Tower dominating was Toronto-esque.

In terms of the role it occupies in the national psyche, yes. Or how its demographics are different from the rest of NZ. Or how other Kiwis outside of Auckland viewed it. I can't say how the average Aucklander views the world, but I suspect the gaze looks towards Sydney, Asia or London moreso than Wellington, or the South Island.

I'm not making a definitive claim, but to one person's vibe, yes, there are similarities.

Still don’t see it. Auckland wears its British heritage, demographics aside, much more so than any other largish commonwealth city: the terrace housing, formal gardens, prevalence of high tea. It is far sleepier than Toronto, never had a large industrial base and is poorly integrated into other regions due to remoteness. The terrain is very PNW and the layout Northern California like, snaking through valleys and up hillsides in what is likely the world’s most sprawling city. It does look to the UK and Australia, but so does most of NZ.

My grandfather grew up on a dairy farm in what is now the southern suburbs of Auckland.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by wave46

It depends how you view it.

In landscape, I agree with you. Housing can be hit or miss, but it's in a much warmer climate. Walking down Queen Street gave a Toronto-ish vibe. Or driving south from the Auckland Habour Bridge on the Northern Motorway with the Sky Tower dominating was Toronto-esque.

In terms of the role it occupies in the national psyche, yes. Or how its demographics are different from the rest of NZ. Or how other Kiwis outside of Auckland viewed it. I can't say how the average Aucklander views the world, but I suspect the gaze looks towards Sydney, Asia or London moreso than Wellington, or the South Island.

I'm not making a definitive claim, but to one person's vibe, yes, there are similarities.

I have never been to Auckland so I had to take a look - comparisons can be fun. CBD looks more Vancouver-esque to me than Toronto for sure. Lots of Victorian housing but most is 1 storey wood panel detached cottages which are extremely rare here. But this view is quite similar: https://goo.gl/maps/GpNyh7z6cdZJpcXz5

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by someone123

On the other hand I don't think that just being large or "diverse" is in and of itself that interesting or unique, and Toronto did hitch itself to that wagon. The notion that Toronto has some kind of near-monopoly on immigration in Canada is very out of date and it was at best half-truth decades ago. In 2020 this has hit an absurd level where people in the 50% immigrant town act like people in the 20% immigrant town are sheltered rustics who would be shocked to see a non-white person. Also, we have the US right next door.

Americans do this all the time. For example, they'll say Seattle is a very "white" city though it's two thirds "non-Hispanic white".

For whatever historical reasons, the US highlights immigrant diversity less than historically underrepresented groups that may not necessarily be immigrants (e.g. African Americans) so tend to think of having a "black" presence as contributing to diversity more as an underrepresented minority than certain other groups (e.g. an IT worker from India).

But we don't see this for Canada -- people don't count say a First Nations or Métis person as contributing to diversity more than a refugee from Syria or a Filipino worker.

And Americans seem to count linguistic diversity less than Canada, except for where presence of the "Spanish" language is a proxy for Hispanic presence. Canada has not only the Francophone presence but lots of indigenous languages, immigrant languages etc. more so than the US, but this is rarely highlighted in diversity comparisons. The fact that Canada has a French-English binary like Switzerland has a French, German, Italian three-way split and India has 22 languages with official status seems to count for its own type of diversity that seems less popular to acknowledge than "ancestral/race" diversity -- why should lots of races of people who speak English count more than lots of people who speak lots of languages?

[SignalHillHiker]

Curry is so ingrained over there now I bet there are Brits who assume it’s English in origin.

[Maldive]

"Many Torontonians are more like "getting screeched in... never heard of that!" or "WTF is the Brier?????"

^ yes it was time to unearth this classic myth... adored/celebrated by worldly, domestically-informed Vancouverites, Montrealers and even transplanted Ontarians who passed their Calgary entrance exam.

I was "Screeched" 1000 feet (300 metres?) above a fjord in Gros Morne, and I have made most of the folks in southern Ontario watch slideshows from my three coast to coast trips (never made it to the arctic). Everyone expected wheat, not vast forests and lakes in (northern) Saskatchewan.

Just sayin' I did my best, but new folks keep moving in and it's hard to keep up.

*The Brier is a rabbit right?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Maldive

"Many Torontonians are more like "getting screeched in... never heard of that!" or "WTF is the Brier?????"

^ yes it was time to unearth this classic myth... adored/celebrated by worldly, domestically-informed Vancouverites, Montrealers and even transplanted Ontarians who passed their Calgary entrance exam.

I was "Screeched" 1000 feet (300 metres?) above a fjord in Gros Morne, and I have made most of the folks in southern Ontario watch slideshows from my three coast to coast trips (never made it to the arctic). Everyone expected wheat, not vast forests and lakes in (northern) Saskatchewan.

Just sayin' I did my best, but new folks keep moving in and it's hard to keep up.

*The Brier is a rabbit right?

Obviously we're not saying it's everyone in the GTA that is like this. We have die-hard CFL fans from the 416 on here, after all.

But I think one can generally observe in Toronto a lesser amount of knowledge and interest in the rest of the country than one normally finds in even the cockiest self-absorbed metropolises of the world.

I also think it's unfair to put this down to newcomers/immigrants. It's quite prevalent among multi-generational Torontonians, even those whose ancestry in the country goes back to the British colonial era.

[Maldive]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But I think one can generally observe in Toronto a lesser amount of knowledge and interest in the rest of the country than one normally finds in even the cockiest self-absorbed metropolises of the world.

I also think it's unfair to put this down to newcomers/immigrants.

I understand that cocky may be deemed un-Canadian, but there are plenty of other self-absorbed (possibily a bit insecure?) towns on the map. See epic, scrolling photo threads ;-)

As for 'it's unfair to put this down to newcomers/immigrants', it might be unfair to characterize my "it's hard to keep up" joke (that didn't land) this way.

Like my Calcutta-born Bengali Canadian father-in-law, who named his daughters Nova and Scotia, there are lots of Canadian realities with legit creds.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Maldive

I understand that cocky may be deemed un-Canadian, but there are plenty of other self-absorbed (possibily a bit insecure?) towns on the map. See epic, scrolling photo threads ;-)

As for 'it's unfair to put this down to newcomers/immigrants', it might be unfair to characterize my "it's hard to keep up" joke (that didn't land) this way.

Like my Calcutta-born Bengali Canadian father-in-law, who named his daughters Nova and Scotia, there are lots of Canadian realities with legit creds.

We're in agreement when it comes to this stuff!

[MolsonExport]

If you watch Francophone Quebec media, you could easily think that there is hardly any world outside of Quebec. As much as I love my home province, it is like living in a bubble, and one that is more difficult to pierce than that bubble that Torontonians live in. As you have repeatedly said on this forum, because of the unique language situation of Quebec, it is much more insulated from American and ROC influences. You can't have it both ways.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

If you watch Francophone Quebec media, you could easily think that there is hardly any world outside of Quebec. As much as I love my home province, it is like living in a bubble, and one that is more difficult to pierce than that bubble that Torontonians live in. As you have repeatedly said on this forum, because of the unique language situation of Quebec, it is much more insulated from American and ROC influences. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, this aspect does have its good and bad sides.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

As much as I love my home province, it is like living in a bubble, and one that is more difficult to pierce than that bubble that Torontonians live in. .

Agree again. Though in the case of Toronto, its bubble only filters out that which is uniquely Canadian. It's extremely open to outside influences (American first and foremost, but also from the rest of the world). Especially if they're not Canadian. It's quite paradoxical for a place that on the other hand exudes a high degree of Canadian pride in terms of symbols (the flag, the maple leaf) and rhetoric (Canada numer one!).

[MolsonExport]

Airport and tall buildings aside, Shenzhen is 99.999% Chinese in ethnicity and feel.

[MolsonExport]

As for immigration, Montreal attracts large swathes of people from places that are perhaps less proportionately represented in the rest of Canada. In particular, places that were formerly French colonies, or under the French Mandate (Lebanon, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Syria, Haiti, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, etc.). Of course immigrants from these places can be found elsewhere in Canada, much like how Chinese, Filipinos and Indians can be found in Montreal. But the relative proportions are quite different.

My two cents.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

As for immigration, Montreal attracts large swathes of people from places that are perhaps less proportionately represented in the rest of Canada. In particular, places that were formerly French colonies, or under the French Mandate (Lebanon, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Syria, Haiti, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, etc.). Of course immigrants from these places can be found elsewhere in Canada, much like how Chinese, Filipinos and Indians can be found in Montreal. But the relative proportions are quite different.

My two cents.

Comments from Torontonians/Vancouverites or ROCers in general à la "Montreal isn't diverse very all and has very few immigrants! I mean, where are all the dudes with turbans?" remind me of Americans who say Toronto and Vancouver aren't diverse because they don't have a ton of Hispanics or Black people, respectively.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Comments from Torontonians/Vancouverites or ROCers in general à la "Montreal isn't diverse very all and has very few immigrants! I mean, where are all the dudes with turbans?" remind me of Americans who say Toronto and Vancouver aren't diverse because they don't have a ton of Hispanics or Black people, respectively.

You are the king of the strawman - there is no reasoning with a comment like that.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by shappy

You are the king of the strawman - there is no reasoning with a comment like that.

Well, jhikka said this and this yesterday, which is basically the same thing as my comment (minus the caricatural flair), but with different words. Which is to say that Montreal does not correspond or live up to the image of Canada's cities as immigration hubs.

Originally Posted by JHikka

My point wasn't so much that Vancouver receives more immigrants per year than Montreal (in 2017-2018 MTL attracted 70K versus Vancouver's 40K, 52K to 32K the year before, and 45K to 23K the year before that) it's that more people over a wider swath of international countries are cognizant of Vancouver and show a desire to move there versus considering and moving to Montreal. Whether or not that's true or not is tough to say, but in the anecdotal evidence I get from immigrants here it is. I think it makes a difference if a city is getting immigrants from a wide slew of countries around the world instead of a handful of countries from specific pockets, but perhaps i'm wrong.
(...)
I agree with this sentiment at its base but I also think that international immigration and the integration of those peoples is a key aspect of Canadian history and culture. Being accepting of others, whether they were boat people from Vietnam, Syrian refugees, or just simple economic migrants plays a large role in our national and cultural psyche. The cultural mosaic, as it were.

Originally Posted by JHikka

Most of the immigrants i'm friends with in Toronto never really mention Montreal as a possible landing point before moving to Canada. Typically before moving to Canada they considered Vancouver or Toronto. I'm sure Montreal plays a larger role for people from Francophonie but on the whole i'd imagine it's well behind in consideration for a lot of immigrants.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, jhikka said this and this yesterday, which is basically the same thing as my comment (minus the caricatural flair), but with different words. Which is to say that Montreal does not correspond or live up to the image of Canada's cities as immigration hubs.

Your so-called caricatural flair is the straw man. jhikka's post has heaps of nuance that you conveniently ignore.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by shappy

You are the king of the strawman - there is no reasoning with a comment like that.

It's difficult, that's for sure.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's difficult, that's for sure.

You could start by telling us why Toronto and Vancouver embody the "Canada as an immigration nation" imagery more than Montreal does.

Since that seems to be what you were getting at.