Hamilton Votes 2008

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

CUT the gas tax??? Wow. shows how out of touch with reality these clowns really are.

All the more reason to vote for a party that's not out of touch.

If you're sick of the Conservatives, hate the Liberals and don't trust the NDP, then vote Green. If nothing else, your vote guarantees the Green party $1.75 a year in party funding so they can continue to develop their platform and mount a challenge to the status quo.

Originally Posted by DC83

What has Harper and his conservatives done for the Environment over the last 2.5 years?

They couldn't get anything done because they were too busy blaming the Liberals for not getting anything done when they were in power.

In fairness, they did pass a climate change plan ... that actually allows the energy industry to increase its greenhouse gas emissions.

No wonder they're attacking the Green Shift so hard - their own environmental track record is one of their biggest weaknesses and they know it.

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Fastcarsfreedom, you and I both know that membership to Opus Dei is not significant simply because it is a Christian religion.

I'm not sure why it's that significant. Opus Dei is a conservative Catholic ministry that encourages its lay members to do "the work of God" (Opus Dei in English) in their communities - to "find God in daily life" - as opposed to inside a monastery or the Church bureaucracy.

It's decidedly not the nefarious, shadowy cabal depicted in Dan Brown's lumpen "Da Vinci Code".

The organization emphasizes daily service and "mortification", which can range from steadfast dedication to important but unpleasant tasks to small sacrifices of pleasure, abstaining from luxuries, fasting, celibacy, and for some, suffering physical discomfort or even pain.

That may sound bizarre to some, but it's straightforward Catholic doctrine, as reflected in Lenten fasting, abstaining from meat on Fridays, and so on. Christianity in general emphasizes sacrifice and suffering (e.g. the Beatitudes).

Since we already knew Sweet is a conservative Christian, it's hardly a revelation to discover that he's a member of a conservative Christian organization.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal

I'm not sure why it's that significant. Opus Dei is a conservative Catholic ministry that encourages its lay members to do "the work of God" (Opus Dei in English) in their communities - to "find God in daily life" - as opposed to inside a monastery or the Church bureaucracy.

It's decidedly not the nefarious, shadowy cabal depicted in Dan Brown's lumpen "Da Vinci Code".

Its significance lies within the questionable, cult-like practices of the Opus Dei sect. And no, I am not passing judgement based on Dan Brown's works of fiction. Neither am I basing it simply on the practice of corporal mortification. I am basing it on the testimony of its former members and their families. I provide the following link for your perusal:

http://www.odan.org/index.htm

[markbarbera]

It appears that Harper, Layton and the media consortium have caved to the strong backlash from the public about their exclusion of Elizabeth May from the leader debates. She is now in.

I am pleased at the reversal. The poorly-thought out position held by Harper and Layton damaged their credibility during the opening days of the campaign and managed to keep both off message. Overnight polls must have clearly indicated a serious voter backlash. The blogs certainly show evidence of this. It will be interesting to see how deeply the damage was done to both their campaigns.

[DC83]

^^ some said that about the GST reduction, and it still won people over.

Generally, there are voters who are stupid and will vote with whoever is going to save THEM the most money. If it's $0.02 on a bag of chips, sure! If it's $0.53 on a tank of gas the "HELL YA I'm votin for the guy that's going to save me $50 over the matter of 12 months!"

Our job, as educated individuals, is to bring light to these useless promises and expose them for what they are:
-decrease in GST saves you almost no money, and lowers the GST rebate cheque amount for those who need it most
-decrease in a fuel tax that goes (almost) directly back to the Cities that run Canada!
-Harper, an american-styled social conservative who only smiles b/c his team of publicists tell him to.

I don't see how Westerners can see right thru this guy? His eyes scream 'Hidden Agenda'... or maybe it's the hand-wringing & lip-licking? I dunno he's just creepy.

[markbarbera]

Again, I clarify: It is a reduction in the excise tax on diesel fuel only. Not gas. It will effect precious few people. But it sure sounds good.

[drpgq]

So you're saying that it is better for the GST money to be doled out as Mandarins (no doubt educated individuals) in Ottawa see fit, rather than allowing taxpayers to make market decisions with it. Considering the governments we've had over the past decades and the value for the money we've gotten, I'd rather keep the money in the hands of the taxpayers than the social engineers.

Originally Posted by DC83

^^ some said that about the GST reduction, and it still won people over.

Generally, there are voters who are stupid and will vote with whoever is going to save THEM the most money. If it's $0.02 on a bag of chips, sure! If it's $0.53 on a tank of gas the "HELL YA I'm votin for the guy that's going to save me $50 over the matter of 12 months!"

Our job, as educated individuals, is to bring light to these useless promises and expose them for what they are:
-decrease in GST saves you almost no money, and lowers the GST rebate cheque amount for those who need it most
-decrease in a fuel tax that goes (almost) directly back to the Cities that run Canada!
-Harper, an american-styled social conservative who only smiles b/c his team of publicists tell him to.

I don't see how Westerners can see right thru this guy? His eyes scream 'Hidden Agenda'... or maybe it's the hand-wringing & lip-licking? I dunno he's just creepy.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Yes--the mania/hysteria here about this gas tax cut (which is only on diesel) shows exactly how willing everyone is to be right. Perhaps it's Dion that's the one that's out-of-touch with the destruction his ill-timed Green Shift will bring to the economy and to middle-class Canadians.

As for A-D-F-W, it actually hasn't changed all that much. It has been a traditional Conservative stronghold for decades that went Liberal only in the "red wave" elections of the 1990s. The additional of Westdale has changed the dynamic somewhat--but no more so than past inclusions of parts of Aldershot and Hamilton Mountain did.

What does it say about our country when it is noteworthy that a candidate has been "exposed" as a Christian...

[markbarbera]

You should read the actual Liberal Green Shift plan. Contrary to Jason Kenny's mantra, this is not a new tax in the sense that it is an additional tax. It is a complete redesign of the tax system so it is no longer based on income but on consumption. IMO a consumption tax is a fairer system of taxation.

Fastcarsfreedom, you and I both know that membership to Opus Dei is not significant simply because it is a Christian religion.

As far as ADFW goes, we'll have to watch this riding on October 14. I'll be prepared to eat crow if Sweet returns, but I think I'll be having a steak dinner that night...

[DC83]

Wow. To be honest I was completely ignorant on the whole Green Shift plan, but just finished reading up about it and am pretty impressed.

What has Harper and his conservatives done for the Environment over the last 2.5 years?

Dion is right, this [Green Shift policy] is not an easy choice -- it's the right choice!

[adam]

Anyone check out Bills C-51 and C-52? Here's an interesting fact, for the past 10 years there have been at least 8 cases each year of listeria in Alberta alone, and yet little to no media coverage... something doesn't add up for me. I guess a majority gov't would allow Harper to make more drastic changes. He's all for the gradual merging of Canada and the US as well. I suppose some people want that?

[raisethehammer]

at this stage in the game, I don't see any other choice other than participating badly.
And no, my only issue isn't the nonsensical reason for the election call. I can't stand political parties. Politics used to be about ideas, people, citizens and the nation.
Now it's all about these private parties and their millions of dollars and corruption and greed etc.....
The US system is a joke. I would never want that here.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

at this stage in the game, I don't see any other choice other than participating badly.
And no, my only issue isn't the nonsensical reason for the election call. I can't stand political parties. Politics used to be about ideas, people, citizens and the nation.
Now it's all about these private parties and their millions of dollars and corruption and greed etc.....
The US system is a joke. I would never want that here.

I'm sure the green party isn't rolling in dough, so vote for them. Like I said, your non vote equals some fraction of a vote for every candidate except the one that you would have voted for.

[raisethehammer]

something will have to become a BIG issue to get me to vote....there's a first time for everything and this will be my first time not voting.
I'm certain it won't be the last.

[adam]

if you don't vote, then you have no business giving your say on issues at the municipal or federal level.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by adam

if you don't vote, then you have no business giving your say on issues at the municipal or federal level.

lol, that will never happen.

I agree, I've always been of the opinion if you don't vote you can't complain. I missed a provincial election when I was out of the country on a last minute business trip after the advance polls had finished.

My wife reminded me for 4 years every time I started to complain, that I didn't have the right........ and yes, we are still together.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by adam

if you don't vote, then you have no business giving your say on issues at the municipal or federal level.

I don't buy that.
The parties always try to spout nonsense like that to 'guilt' us into feeling we have to vote.
My grandfather and great grandfather fought in both world wars and Korean War. I appreciate our freedom and all they provided for us.
THIS is not what they fought for. I won't let some disgusting, greedy political party shame me into joining their perversion of democracy. It's not a democracy and I think we all know that.
As a taxpayer, my opinion is just as valid as anyone's. I never thought I'd miss a vote, but I also never thought that politics would get so bad.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I don't buy that.
The parties always try to spout nonsense like that to 'guilt' us into feeling we have to vote.
My grandfather and great grandfather fought in both world wars and Korean War. I appreciate our freedom and all they provided for us.
THIS is not what they fought for. I won't let some disgusting, greedy political party shame me into joining their perversion of democracy. It's not a democracy and I think we all know that.
As a taxpayer, my opinion is just as valid as anyone's. I never thought I'd miss a vote, but I also never thought that politics would get so bad.

I agree with Adam, and I'm not a member of any party. There you have it the people (not parties) have spoken.

Sorry about your decision. It will certainly be quiet without your witty reparte.

[raisethehammer]

that's an interesting way to try to censor someone.
If I didn't know any better I'd say you work for FOX "news".
Lol.
Don't worry....I'm not going anywhere....much like Canada.

[SteelTown]

Elizabeth May, Green Party, will be on the leaders debate.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Elizabeth May, Green Party, will be on the leaders debate.

What I wonder is if the Greens don't win a seat in this election, does that mean they
get excluded from the leaders debate in the next election? Are the Greens even favoured to get an elected seat this time round?