Posted Feb 15, 2025, 7:21 PM
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New Yorker for life
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 56,199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperPower
The casino will definitely generate enough return on investment to make the project profitable... However at the same time if you're a business located at Hudson yards which has upscale five-star shopping and residential do you really want to draw that crowd to the Hudson yards?
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They already went over that, and I don't know what type of "crowd" you expect, but Wynn casinos are very classy establishments. It hardly matters, the Hudson Yards draws in tourists from every corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahoi
Hudson Yards Phase Two and the northern plot were to be used for housing. Instead of the casino, two 1600-foot Twin Towers could be built. Which rise above a five-story podium. This could accommodate up to 4000 apartments, or more.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky88
I agree with you, on the Hudson Yards Phase Two site, they could build the five-story podium with the two 1600/1700 foot tall Twin Towers on top.
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I see there's still confusion as to what was supposed to be built, what can be built, and what will be built. I'll try to clear it up (though no doubt I will be repeating myself soon enough).
Firstly, the maximum FAR on the site is 10. That's it. Very low for a prime Manhattan location, or anywhere in Manhattan for that matter. But people have prioritized "open space" as a magic elixir. They don't take into account having too much open space. That's why many people feel the Hudson Yards doesn't really feel like New York. It's not very dense, no matter how tall you build, because they're only allowed that total maximum far of 10. That won't change no matter the mix of development. It comes out to about 5.7 msf.
Secondly, the ratio of development was mixed at a maximum/minimum of 20/80, either residential or commercial. That means either a minimum of 20% could be residential or office. It works likewise with the maximum.
Related's entire programming of both east and west railyards was driven by the high end condos. That's what they were expecting to make the whole thing worthwhile. But the funny thing is that the office took off way better than was expected, and the residential has lagged. That in turn has caused the retail to lag somewhat, because it was based on having all of those high end customers living there. So much so that when Neiman went bankrupt, Related immediately pivoted to office for that space, which was quickly bought up by Wells Fargo.
Without the casino plan, Related likely would have pivoted to more office space anyway. The market for thousands of units of mult-million dollar condos just wasn't coming like they thought it would. But the commitment to affordable housing had to stay the same. And so it has.
So, circling back to my earlier point, there's way too much open space here, especially considering you've got the Hudson River Park, the High Line, Hudson Boulevard, and a smaller city park nearby.
Since the casino development would make the entire thing viable, they could sacrifice some of that open space for a couple more affordable towers (they won't). But nobody is even asking for that. They want the open space, and those thousands of units of condos that the market isn't demanding.
That's the level of stupidity at work here, and the BP knows it. The community boards all effectively work for the borough presidents. So he's trying to walk a fine line by saying there's room for improvement, but that's not what the morons want.
In the end, they could build 10,000 condos along with the casino, but it's the casino that they don't want.
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Last edited by NYguy; Feb 15, 2025 at 7:46 PM.
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