The Great Canadian Skyline thread for CMAs 1 million and under

[phone]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Downtown Saskatoon & the Broadway District







https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...view=imagelist

We really do have a nice urban forest

[MolsonExport]

really nice toon pix

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

Saint John viewed from the first cruise ship of the season from netanel_fahima on Instagram. May 8th.

Pretty egregious spelling mistake... how dare they? So I thought while correcting it, I could correct something else in that photo, something that should have happened 48 years ago, imo, and that would be topping out Brunswick Square to its full 36 storey potential.





While the view wouldn't change that dramatically, the views of the surrounding hills and mountains of the river valley would be even more striking. Also, the Saint John skyline could be seen from much further away, which would be impressive. Those 17 extra floors would unlock huge potential for residential development at Brunswick Square... adding at least 17 floors of units of housing stock in the city centre, with striking views of the Bay of Fundy and Kennesbecasis/Saint John River would be huge for Saint John.



I think it would be a catalyst for development, not just for Saint John, but Atlantic Canada. I don't think Halifax and Moncton would let Saint John keep the title very long, but it might be just what Saint John needs to finally get more residential high rises put up. Plus, the building is for sale, right? Now would be the perfect time to do something ambitious like this. Anyone have any ideas on how to make it happen, or who could make it happen? We're all excited for Fundy Quay to happen, but compared to Moncton and Halifax, that project is happening at slower than a snails pace. Topping out Brunswick Square to 36 storeys could be done a lot quicker.

I think a Church has been the tallest building within the City of Saint John for long enough. Saint John has such amazing potential for ocean and river valley views, and Brunswick Square is an opportunity waiting to be unlocked. Saint John has so much potential to fill in the skyline... not just to give the city more property revenue, which it desperately needs, but to fundamentally improve the city, by increasing density and height, especially the urban core.

It's a lot nicer to live in a building with an elevator than the third or fourth floor of a building without an elevator, like many of the current rental stock Uptown. Not only is is more convenient for moving in and out of apartments for renters, it's just a lot nicer for bringing back your shopping, plus the views will speak for themselves.

Saint John's heritage restrictions and height limits as they stand are far too restrictive... Saint John needs to find a way to strike a balance between showcasing the amazing architecture of the past, while coming up with a strategy to attract the investment needed build up our skyline for the future. The strategy for high rises should be to unlock those coastal and river views, and help the city grow and densify. It's sad that it seems Saint John doesn't even want to try and compete with Moncton... I think there's so much more potential for high rises in Saint John, than Moncton, because not only are there much more spectacular views to behold, the bedrock is ideal for the foundations needed to build high rises, or even legitimate skyscrapers one day. Yet, Moncton is showing us the way. It's possible to make this happen... just takes some vision and a lot of money. I don't think Moncton or Halifax would let SJ sit at the #1 spot on the list of tallest buildings very long.



We have the potential for some of the nicest ocean views in all of Canada, yet, there's very few residential high rises in Saint John, and most are nowhere near the coast. Hopefully Saint John can learn to emulate Moncton and start building more high rises here in the Port City.

[Aimhigh]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

And to think, in even less time, Saint John could build the first 36+ storey building in Atlantic Canada. If the right investors and partners got together and built Brunswick Square up to it's full 36 storey potential as it was designed for.


Why should Moncton want Saint John to build a 36+ storey first?

Because, it will give Moncton even more motivation to build something taller. I don't think Saint John would last very long at the top of the list with the way Moncton has been building and planning high rises.

No offence intended but there are way too many people here who don't understand how and why tall buildings get built.
The people who build these things are thinking about one thing alone: money. That's it. They don't care about having the tallest, most voluminous, deepest or any other superlative. If they can throw a description of a building that includes a superlatives in the marketing then it has to be something that will entice people to buy in. The fact of the matter is that being the tallest just isn't one of those things.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Aimhigh

No offence intended but there are way too many people here who don't understand how and why tall buildings get built.
The people who build these things are thinking about one thing alone: money. That's it. They don't care about having the tallest, most voluminous, deepest or any other superlative. If they can throw a description of a building that includes a superlatives in the marketing then it has to be something that will entice people to buy in. The fact of the matter is that being the tallest just isn't one of those things.

That’s fair. Considering Brunswick Square is already 19 storeys, and was designed to accommodate 36 storeys, it could still be a money making opportunity and means to increase the housing stock.

Also, there’s lots of money to be made selling coastal views. Even more ten storey buildings would help achieve that here in Saint John, yet everything getting built seems to be 4-6 storeys.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

there’s lots of money to be made selling coastal views. Even more ten storey buildings would help achieve that here in Saint John, yet everything getting built seems to be 4-6 storeys.

As long as you can see the coast through the thick Fundy fog.

[WhipperSnapper]

This is a skyline thread. Even so, what exactly would a 36 storey Brunswick Square achieve beyond being seen from farther away? That tall residential buildings bring more culture or elevate status is not true. It ain't commercial. Everyone is doing it now. Expanding on the masonry bones with quality mid rise intensification (not one speck of vinyl siding) will set the city apart than the architecturally void 30 storey towers proposed in Moncton.

Every modern 4 storey apartment block has an elevator.

[905er]

it's nice to see that the grotesque Baydo towers that are u/c in Saskatoon likely won't have too much of an impact on the skyline judging by those pics.

[Luisito]

Nice pics of St John and Saskatoon.

[harls]

Originally Posted by 905er

it's nice to see that the grotesque Baydo towers that are u/c in Saskatoon likely won't have too much of an impact on the skyline judging by those pics.

Why so much hate?

Will you even leave the 905 to see it in person?

Show me where Baydo touched you.

[905er]

Originally Posted by harls

Why so much hate?

Will you even leave the 905 to see it in person?

Show me where Baydo touched you.

Yes, I will visit Saskatoon.. and I reserve the right to hate that hideous new build that will already look dated once completed.

[Echoes]

You'll find near universal agreement from Saskatoon SSPers that Baydo Towers are absolutely hideous. But, they're happening, and there's nothing we can do about it. So harping on their ugliness ad nauseum gets a little tiresome. I've accepted their place in the cityscape and moved on, and I have to live with them!

[905er]

Originally Posted by Echoes

You'll find near universal agreement from Saskatoon SSPers that Baydo Towers are absolutely hideous. But, they're happening, and there's nothing we can do about it. So harping on their ugliness ad nauseum gets a little tiresome. I've accepted their place in the cityscape and moved on, and I have to live with them!

it's no different than the harping on Waterloo, clockzilla or Sauga's city hall... I don't think we should be complacent to the ugliness and just accept it.. it'll only result in more ugliness.. we're a complacent country.. just look what we're turning into sadly.

More River Landing or Escape aesthetic... it has raised the bar for Saskatoon.. and has provided a level of modernity that the city just simply lacks architecturally speaking of course. Is Knox development still happening?... because that's what we need to see more of. Housing doesn't have to be cheapened when it comes to design. As much as the density is welcomed, citizens should demand better design for their neighbourhoods.

[harls]

Originally Posted by 905er

Yes, I will visit Saskatoon

Echoes, get your camera when he comes off the plane.

[905er]

Originally Posted by harls

Echoes, get your camera when he comes off the plane.

I know I'd be gracing Saskatoon with my presence, but please, I insist, no paparazzi.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by 905er

it's no different than the harping on Waterloo, clockzilla or Sauga's city hall... I don't think we should be complacent to the ugliness and just accept it.. it'll only result in more ugliness.. we're a complacent country.. just look what we're turning into sadly.

More River Landing or Escape aesthetic... it has raised the bar for Saskatoon.. and has provided a level of modernity that the city just simply lacks architecturally speaking of course. Is Knox development still happening?... because that's what we need to see more of. Housing doesn't have to be cheapened when it comes to design. As much as the density is welcomed, citizens should demand better design for their neighbourhoods.

Of course I agree with you.

What I was trying to gently suggest, is that your view on Baydo Towers is very well understood on the forum. If posters in the Canada section like harls are commenting on it, then your Baydo take might have become more of a meme than useful discourse at this point. Let's move on to other commentary. But don't get me wrong, I appreciate your interest in and concern for Saskatoon.

Originally Posted by harls

Echoes, get your camera when he comes off the plane.

Originally Posted by 905er

I know I'd be gracing Saskatoon with my presence, but please, I insist, no paparazzi.

See you there!

[905er]

Originally Posted by Echoes

Of course I agree with you.

What I was trying to gently suggest, is that your view on Baydo Towers is very well understood on the forum. If posters in the Canada section like harls are commenting on it, then your Baydo take might have become more of a meme than useful discourse at this point. Let's move on to other commentary. But don't get me wrong, I appreciate your interest in and concern for Saskatoon.





See you there!

noted! roll out the welcome mat!... see you soon Saskatoon! .. and yes, I'm interested obviously in Saskatoon.. I think it's cute, minus.. I won't go there.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

This is a skyline thread. Even so, what exactly would a 36 storey Brunswick Square achieve beyond being seen from [/B]farther away? That tall residential buildings bring more culture or elevate status is not true. It ain't commercial. Everyone is doing it now. Expanding on the masonry bones with quality mid rise intensification (not one speck of vinyl siding) will set the city apart than the architecturally void 30 storey towers proposed in Moncton.

Every modern 4 storey apartment block has an elevator.

Well, if the additional 17 floors were residential, I think it would be quite a significant addition… hundreds of units with amazing coastal views would be quite an change to one of the most maligned buildings in the province. It would be the tallest building in Atlantic Canada, which would literally elevate the status of Saint John, imo. It would also give life to one of the “deadest” malls and shopping centres in the entire province. And based on my very quick photoshop above, I think it would improve the look of the skyline substantially, without looking out of place.

Especially agreed with the bonded part, but Saint John has a lot of height restrictions. If there were more ten storey buildings going up around Uptown, especially ones like you’ve described, it would really set the city apart, but currently zoning bylaws make those type of buildings hard in the central core of the city, iirc, the zoning bylaws stipulate a maximum building height of 14 meters in residential “mid rise” which is like 5-6 storeys I think? And 30 meters in “high-rise” areas, which is just a complete oxymoron… not even 100 feet in areas zoned “high rise”

https://saintjohn.ca/sites/default/f...g%20By-Law.pdf

Obviously there’s exceptions to zoning bylaws, but it doesn’t exactly make the city friendly towards developers from outside the region looking at SJ as prospective market to build mid rises and high rises.

I don’t know much about mass timber and wood construction in mid rises and high rises other than there’s been a lot of recent advancements making them a more viable construction method, but NB is full of forests and forestry companies, it seems like it could be another opportunity for us to build taller buildings here, and they’re supposedly less of a sound issue than low rise wood builds where sound insulation is a serious problem.

All I know for sure is that Saint John is really missing out by having so many zoning restrictions limiting height. 10 storeys is enough for ocean views all over the city, but bylaws make proposing such buildings more of a challenge. Not only will people want to buy and rent condos and apartments with ocean views, they’ll improve the built environment of the city. Some people seem to think I’m suggesting mid rises and high rises are the only option for Saint John, but that’s not at all what I’m suggesting… I think they are just one part of the solution to the housing shortage and urban sprawl problems faced by this city and region.

Considering there hasn’t been a single 10+ storey residential building built in the last 40 years in Saint John, I think it’s safe to say mid rises and high rises haven’t been part of the solution at all for decades. I think it’s time the city devises a strategy to attract the investment needed to get them built… amending the bylaws seems like a logical place to start. Tax holidays could be worth looking at too. It’s just really lame that parking and traffic are the most commonly cited reasons against high rises, when most of the parking and traffic issues in Uptown Saint John during the work week are caused by people who don’t even live in the area, or the city of Saint John for that matter. More builds above 6 storeys is what the city needs to set us apart and really change the image of the city. Hope we start to see more get built.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

It would be the tallest building in Atlantic Canada, which would literally elevate the status of Saint John, imo.

Some parts of metro Halifax are zoned for 40 now and some of those are under construction (I think 4 in Dartmouth?). They don't really have renderings, much like how the Quinpool Rd tower didn't until recently.

40 seems semi-common around the country now even in some smaller cities like Kitchener-Waterloo or Kelowna, I guess due to stratospheric housing and land prices.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by someone123

40 seems semi-common around the country now even in some smaller cities like Kitchener-Waterloo or Kelowna, I guess due to stratospheric housing and land prices.

Which is why I find it hard to believe Saint John can’t find developers to build residential high rises in the middle of a “housing crisis”. I think it’s more to do with our restrictive zoning bylaws limiting height, than the lack of willing investors… especially when you see what is being proposed, approved, and actually getting built left and right 100 miles away in Moncton, which is still absolutely comparable to Saint John demographically, even though some on here like to believe they’re no longer comparable.

If Canada is legitimately in the middle of a housing crisis, and Saint John is the fifth largest coastal CMA in the country after Vancouver, Halifax, Victoria, and St. John’s, I don’t think it should be that hard to attract and sell investors on the idea of building some mid rises and high rises with coastal views in Saint John. The only such project we have in the pipeline at the moment, Fundy Quay, is being built at a snail’s pace by a group of investors from Rothesay, NB, Saint John’s most exclusive suburb. A group that I might add that has zero experience building high rises. So I like to imagine we could get even more ambitious projects built, if we did more to attract investment from outside of New Brunswick.

If the city made an effort to make the zoning bylaws less restrictive regarding height, I strongly believe we’d see more mid rises and high rises being proposed and actually getting built. Be they luxury condos, or simply apartments to boost the stock of rental units.

I’m not naive, I don’t think we simply amend the bylaws and boom, at the snap of our fingers we’ll see 20+ storey buildings popping up everywhere, but I do think we’d see far more 10+ storey projects being proposed and actually getting built.

I just think it’s a shame for a city with the amazing coastal views that we have, very few residents actually have coastal views from their homes, and building up is the best way to unlock those views in Saint John.

I think we’ll get that eventually, but it’s a little frustrating how long it’s taking.