Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[LeftCoaster]

I have major issues with Canada's current justice system, but posting a pic of some nice watches in Switzerland in a window implying that it doesn't happen here and everyone is just living in a boarded up hellscape is just false and fear mongering.

We can be critical of the very real failings of our current system while still not claiming the sky is falling.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In Vancouver all jewelry/watches are removed from windows as they're easy for junkies to smash and grab. Though I have heard of whole mannequins near the doors being stripped at Holts and the merch being run off with.

Why is it so hard for some people to admit Canada's justice system is a joke and mollycoddling crooks make life worse for everyone?

Jewelry and watches haven't been left sitting in the window of jewellery stores for many years. Smash and grab robberies of valuable, easily sold goods aren't generally carried out by junkies. They're more likely to steal cheese, or pop, from inside a store. Watches might be a target for career criminals, but those types of crime have existed for decades, and if the criminals are successfully caught and prosecuted, they generally end up with a custodial sentence. Removing valuable items from a window when the store is not open is quite possibly a requirement by the business's insurance.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In Vancouver all jewelry/watches are removed from windows as they're easy for junkies to smash and grab. Though I have heard of whole mannequins near the doors being stripped at Holts and the merch being run off with.

Why is it so hard for some people to admit Canada's justice system is a joke and mollycoddling crooks make life worse for everyone?

The COO of London Drugs was on CKNW this morning, and he is spearheading or is part of merchants asking all government levels, mainly Federal, to start doing something and locking up repeat offenders, etc.

He is concerned about his staff, he said daily they are subjected to physical assaults, people spitting on them, racist remarks, and just having to work in what should be a safe space but has become overcome with crime and abuse. And they can't do anything about it and the people who do it are known criminals free to roam about.

He said it's not just Vancouver; the stores in Kamloops and Kelowna are also bad these days.

Something has to be done and get tough on crime again, the criminals know they can get away with anything and do as they please. Canadians are getting fed up.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Something has to be done and get tough on crime again, the criminals know they can get away with anything and do as they please. Canadians are getting fed up.

It's simple: 50 years ago (or even the 90's which was 30 years ago) you caught someone in the act you could give them a few swings with a baseball bat and questions were not asked as they were loaded into the wagon.

There's a business model out there now that you so lay a finger on Ollie the Crackhead, there are a handful of directions you can go for subsidized Legal Aid and they'll nail you. You can't even dump them at city limits anymore. We don't even send them to labor camps to work off six months for petty theft. It's Colonialist. It has been noted that in the fall there is an uptick in petty crime that lands you four to six month sentences. Really, the idea is that instead of spending the winter on the street, you become federally mandated to get clean clothes, three squares a day, medical services and a warm bed. Then in March you get the boot and it's back to stealing cheese and breaking into garages for things to fence. What's the worst they'll do? Give you stable living space again? Oh no!


Likewise the fact that a double standard exists in encampments, illegal trailer/RV parking and just straight-up sitting on the Granville strip with three backpacks, some blankets, two dogs and a drug habit can't get them dragged off and their possessions destroyed invites blight. Make them unable to establish and they will move on. Part of that requires eliminating portions of the criminal code which were feel-good ammendments that were drafted because of some niche incident or lobbying but is now actively exploited either by shady poverty rights groups with conflicts of interest or legal aid groups who know that as long as they get petty criminals in the courtroom they get a paycheck.


Point I'm getting to here is if you are homeless, unless it's your dealer looking for the money you owe him, you've been untouchable for years.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by MIPS

It's simple: 50 years ago (or even the 90's which was 30 years ago) you caught someone in the act you could give them a few swings with a baseball bat and questions were not asked as they were loaded into the wagon.

There's a business model out there now that you so lay a finger on Ollie the Crackhead, there are a handful of directions you can go for subsidized Legal Aid and they'll nail you. You can't even dump them at city limits anymore. We don't even send them to labor camps to work off six months for petty theft. It's Colonialist. It has been noted that in the fall there is an uptick in petty crime that lands you four to six month sentences. Really, the idea is that instead of spending the winter on the street, you become federally mandated to get clean clothes, three squares a day, medical services and a warm bed. Then in March you get the boot and it's back to stealing cheese and breaking into garages for things to fence. What's the worst they'll do? Give you stable living space again? Oh no!


Likewise the fact that a double standard exists in encampments, illegal trailer/RV parking and just straight-up sitting on the Granville strip with three backpacks, some blankets, two dogs and a drug habit can't get them dragged off and their possessions destroyed invites blight. Make them unable to establish and they will move on. Part of that requires eliminating portions of the criminal code which were feel-good ammendments that were drafted because of some niche incident or lobbying but is now actively exploited either by shady poverty rights groups with conflicts of interest or legal aid groups who know that as long as they get petty criminals in the courtroom they get a paycheck.


Point I'm getting to here is if you are homeless, unless it's your dealer looking for the money you owe him, you've been untouchable for years.

It's astonishing how some people think human rights are somehow revocable and going back to the good ol' days of rounding people them up and sending them to forced labour camps is the way to go. Just hit people with a bat and put them in a chain gang because that'll solve their problems.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's astonishing how some people think human rights are somehow revocable and going back to the good ol' days of rounding people them up and sending them to forced labour camps is the way to go. Just hit people with a bat and put them in a chain gang because that'll solve their problems.

Committing a crime is not a human right. If one wants to do whatever he or she wants, just buy an island and do all the unimaginable things there. However, if you share space with others, there are societal rules that need to be followed. Otherwise, be ready to pay for it or face the consequences.

I would rather a murderer go to a forced labour camp than waste our tax money allowing the perp to do nothing but dine on pork chops in a jail cell.

I don't agree with vigilante per se as sometimes boundaries can be crossed due to misunderstandings or prejudices, but I think it is necessary when it is for self-defense. Good people need to stand up for themselves when others attempt to take their rights away. If you can stop a crime with a bat, so be it. I'm sure you will do the same when you witness your own kin being violated by someone. Don't worry: no one will be astonished at your action.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I have major issues with Canada's current justice system, but posting a pic of some nice watches in Switzerland in a window implying that it doesn't happen here and everyone is just living in a boarded up hellscape is just false and fear mongering.

We can be critical of the very real failings of our current system while still not claiming the sky is falling.

The sky is falling for those who really care and love this city. Just a few days ago, walking from across the road, I saw an old and frail convenient store lady owner on Hornby Street (beside the Tim Horton's at Scotia Bank Theatre) trying to stop a thief who grabbed stuff from her meagre store. If he were to pull out a knife and stab her, I think we won't be seeing her there anymore. Luckily some construction guys just happened to walk out from the Timmies next door and grabbed that monster. A bit of hiding from them would be well-deserved although I did not see that happening: a real pity.

Originally Posted by Zepfancouver

Before anyone reads my reply, please say you will not cancel me.

Vin, You phrased that wrong, it should be, "...like an authoritarian/totalitarian countries", no justice or tolerance, just revenge. Do you like your hands.

After ready that back to myself...I'm cancelling myself

I always thought authoritarian/totalitarian countries are just criminals running the country. These are big-time criminals who do not get punished unless there is a coup d'etat. Perhaps they won't rise up to become dictators if they were punished earlier on for their crimes?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Vin

Committing a crime is not a human right. If one wants to do whatever he or she wants, just buy an island and do all the unimaginable things there. However, if you share space with others, there are societal rules that need to be followed. Otherwise, be ready to pay for it or face the consequences.

I didn't say committing a crime is a human right. Not being beaten and not being sent to a forced labour camp is. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, specifically Sections 7 and 12.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's astonishing how some people think human rights are somehow revocable and going back to the good ol' days of rounding people them up and sending them to forced labour camps is the way to go. Just hit people with a bat and put them in a chain gang because that'll solve their problems.

I assume arresting them and not just indulging in some pointless theatre of "catch and release" justice doesn't violate the poor dears' human rights.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I didn't say committing a crime is a human right. Not being beaten and not being sent to a forced labour camp is. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, specifically Sections 7 and 12.

Not entirely sure if you're aware, but as far as I know all prison in Canada require inmates to have work assignments unless given a health exemption. (The effectiveness and compliance levels I have no comment on.)

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I assume arresting them and not just indulging in some pointless theatre of "catch and release" justice doesn't violate the poor dears' human rights.

You're right, it doesn't, because that's also covered in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Perhaps you need to review it as well.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I assume arresting them and not just indulging in some pointless theatre of "catch and release" justice doesn't violate the poor dears' human rights.

Yes, prison time needs to increase according to number of offences to improve public safety. Just the hassle of being stolen from every day takes a toll on staff and customers, even when there is no physical danger. For extreme offenders, parole should be based on whether they are likely to reoffend, not just severity of the crime.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Not entirely sure if you're aware, but as far as I know all prison in Canada require inmates to have work assignments unless given a health exemption. (The effectiveness and compliance levels I have no comment on.)

Certain posters have a history of advocating for more than that.

[SpongeG]

New West man facing multiple charges after reckless driving, assaulting officer, say North Vancouver RCMP

https://www.bowenislandundercurrent....r-rcmp-9437267

The guy was known to police, and had been sentenced to 3 years for some arsons in 2021. An officer was injured and required stitches after the guy assaulted the police.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I assume arresting them and not just indulging in some pointless theatre of "catch and release" justice doesn't violate the poor dears' human rights.

The non-criminals among us also have a right to live in safety and to have the state (at least attempt to) protect us from harm.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I didn't say committing a crime is a human right. Not being beaten and not being sent to a forced labour camp is. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, specifically Sections 7 and 12.

The charter is written by past politicians who were elected to uphold a social contract with the citizens that the laws of the land will always be enforced and justice (not revenge) pursued to protect the people. In the past, when the laws were upheld, the population would respect it and even promote this system.

However, if elected/non-elected officials fail to do the above and allow criminals to run rampant, the citizenry needs to take over. People are not dumb fools and always sit idling by when the authority neglect in their duties. Your future generation is at stake here.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Certain posters have a history of advocating for more than that.

Certain posters have a history of agreeing with a failing system no matter how bad it has become.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's astonishing how some people think human rights are somehow revocable and going back to the good ol' days of rounding people them up and sending them to forced labour camps is the way to go. Just hit people with a bat and put them in a chain gang because that'll solve their problems.

I don't see you offering solutions. I don't like it either but the fact remains that Catch and Release rather than Catch and Incarcerate is the legal (and financial) easy route even if it's been growing distrust in the legal system due to how ineffective it is when paired with "we'll offer them access to social and drug services and they won't do it again. c:". It's easily exploited and ultimately solves nothing.

[whatnext]

First they lock up the Diet Pepsi at 7-11 and now this. Where will it end for our city's finer establishments?

Vancouver Tim Hortons removes tables and chairs from dining area
By Kristen Robinson Global News
Posted August 28, 2024

Following a downtown Vancouver convenience store’s move to start locking up beverages to discourage theft, a busy chain restaurant in Chinatown has removed most of the furniture from its dining area.

It’s standing room only in much of the busy Tim Hortons on Keefer Street after the coffee shop recently removed tables and chairs.

“I wasn’t really surprised,” customer Sasha Van Beek told Global News Tuesday. “Sometimes if the homeless people are there they won’t get customers so they probably took them out just to try to get customers again.”...

https://globalnews.ca/news/10719406/...s-dining-area/

[jollyburger]

What's the point asking for dash cam footage when the incident happened a few weeks ago?

Police searching for suspect in road rage incident where senior was assaulted with a baton

On August 12, 2024, at approximately 4 p.m., North Vancouver RCMP responded to a road rage incident in the 1400 block of Rupert Street in North Vancouver. It’s alleged that a man driving a black Tesla Model 3 was tailgating another vehicle and speeding. The victim then motioned to the Tesla driver to slow down. It’s alleged the Tesla driver then followed the victim until the victim pulled over. The suspect then exited his vehicle and allegedly struck the victim in the face with a baton.

https://bc-cb.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ViewPag...ontentId=85304

[urbanight93]

Originally Posted by whatnext

First they lock up the Diet Pepsi at 7-11 and now this. Where will it end for our city's finer establishments?

Vancouver Tim Hortons removes tables and chairs from dining area
By Kristen Robinson Global News
Posted August 28, 2024

Following a downtown Vancouver convenience store’s move to start locking up beverages to discourage theft, a busy chain restaurant in Chinatown has removed most of the furniture from its dining area.

It’s standing room only in much of the busy Tim Hortons on Keefer Street after the coffee shop recently removed tables and chairs.

“I wasn’t really surprised,” customer Sasha Van Beek told Global News Tuesday. “Sometimes if the homeless people are there they won’t get customers so they probably took them out just to try to get customers again.”...

https://globalnews.ca/news/10719406/...s-dining-area/

A couple of months ago I went in to get a bagel and walked straight back out because that place was shop of horrors. I truly feel sad for the employees that have to clock in there.

People who don’t think we need to be tougher on crime are living in an alternate universe. Open your eyes and go for a walk.

The system is not working and change in the laws need to be made. Hopefully the lobbying from the LD CEO bears fruit.