Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 456

SaskScraper · #**9101** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 5:51 PM**

If Toronto people had played it smart with football and supported the CFL like Baltimore did, then Toronto wouldn't be considered lepers by the NFL. The Toronto embarassing support for the Bills exhibition games at skydome was the nail in the coffin.
Flash forward to 2017, no football stadium = no NFL period. There are literally hundreds of American cities with football stadiums better than what Toronto has left.

Did someone just say Raptors 'Chinese New Years Jerseys' was to give a nod to the two Raptors quasi-fans in Beijing?

EpicPonyTime · #**9102** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtsandrobots

Oakland, San Diego, St. Louis... or Toronto? Really?

Teams are becoming brands more than teams. The NFL understands marketing. If Oakland or San Diego or St. Louis expands the NFL brand throughout the world more than Toronto, where in the future all sports will stream from all places... then the NFL will go there. I think sports is growing beyond TV numbers. There is a planet to be had.

Why do the Raptors have Chinese New Year jerseys? Locals? No. The Raptors brand is growing throughout the world. China is to be had.

But by this logic, Toronto wouldn't even be number one to expand the game worldwide. London, Mexico City, and former NFL Europa cities would grow the game more worldwide than a team in Toronto.

Worldwide appeal is only one piece of the pie for the NFL. Not a single Canadian, or Chinese mainlander, is going to say "oh Toronto has a team now, I better get it on this!" The one thing Toronto lacks is proven fan support for football, and while everyone wants to point to the Jays and Raptors as proof Toronto supports their teams the city completely fails in the two most relevant areas: CFL support and the Bills series. Do you really think Toronto would be a better home for the NFL than Oakland, a city with a long NFL history and a team that is so well known largely for their fans? I can't see it happening. Placing Toronto over these American cities just proves how overenthusiastic we are.

thoughtsandrobots · #**9103** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:05 PM**

Stop thinking the CFL has anything to do with this. It's about the profit motive, brand marketing, worldwide expansion and exposure, ego, civic status. Etc.

I assure you Mr. SaskScraper that Toronto is not embarrassed by the Bills experiment. Nor is it any nail in any coffin. In fact, it could have been the most valuable experience to date. The exact opposite of what you presume. As I said earlier...put "Toronto" on the jersey, bring in the Dallas Cowboys, and dangle the Super Bowl. You will feel the tremors all the way over there.

There may be hundreds of places with better facilities but are there hundreds of places better than Toronto?

But yes we are very jealous of Baltimore. Hate them.

thoughtsandrobots · #**9104** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

But by this logic, Toronto wouldn't even be number one to expand the game worldwide. London, Mexico City, and former NFL Europa cities would grow the game more worldwide than a team in Toronto.

Worldwide appeal is only one piece of the pie for the NFL. Not a single Canadian, or Chinese mainlander, is going to say "oh Toronto has a team now, I better get it on this!" The one thing Toronto lacks is proven fan support for football, and while everyone wants to point to the Jays and Raptors as proof Toronto supports their teams the city completely fails in the two most relevant areas: CFL support and the Bills series. Do you really think Toronto would be a better home for the NFL than Oakland, a city with a long NFL history and a team that is so well known largely for their fans? I can't see it happening. Placing Toronto over these American cities just proves how overenthusiastic we are.

London is logistically difficult. Thus why the NFL is paying such close attention to what the Toronto Wolfpack are doing. Mexico City is a far bigger threat. Not just to Toronto, to the American players who play there. Moving to Mexico City if you're from Baltimore is far different than moving to Toronto.

Toronto remains the best "International" expansion option. Even if it is just across the street. I agree with you. From Toronto, London, Mexico City, who knows? The world is its oyster. None of that is realistic at this point. But somehow everyone thinks Toronto is impossible.

It all starts here. Or do you think the NFL is happier being only American? Nonsense.

SaskScraper · #**9105** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:22 PM**

^^ and that would be the lesson Toronto has learned with its very brief/short flirtation with the NFL this century.
You don't get bequeathed a NFL team on a silver platter just because you think your city is all that, you actually have to go through the proving grounds of supporting the football teams that you do have.
A lot of the same players that play in the CFL have played in the NFL & visa versa, If your city can't support the team & its players that you have in CFL or NFL exhibitions games, then you just look aloof as a potential market. There are dozens of NFL potential markets ahead of Toronto, that is if the city had a stadium..

esquire · #**9106** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:23 PM**

I'm pretty sure the NFL knows that Toronto will eat up whatever it dishes out. The real question is whether a prospective owner can stick someone else with the bill for the stadium.

EpicPonyTime · #**9107** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:26 PM**

To get this thread back to the topic of stadiums, where would they even build a NFL sized stadium in Toronto? There's not a lot of space downtown and what is there isn't exactly ideal. They could build it farther out but obviously transit gets worse the closer you get to Steeles (and we all know the world ends there).

wave46 · #**9108** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

To get this thread back to the topic of stadiums, where would they even build a NFL sized stadium in Toronto? There's not a lot of space downtown and what is there isn't exactly ideal. They could build it farther out but obviously transit gets worse the closer you get to Steeles (and we all know the world ends there).

The Port Lands, maybe?

thoughtsandrobots · #**9109** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:30 PM**

Does Toronto support the Blue Jays? Does Toronto support the Raptors? What previous support was there for those sports? Ask LeBron James or Comissioner Silver what they think of Toronto as a market? Does Toronto support the Maple Leafs? Does Toronto support Toronto FC? Oh yes, very much so.

We don't "think" we are all that. We "know" we are all that because we keep getting told. Toronto is a sports sensation. It's supporters culture is being emulated through the US. Imagine what Toronto would bring for an NFL team? Wow!

I will say it here again for the 1,975th time...the CFL means nothing in Toronto. Yes, it's a shame. But it's not football football (NFL). We didn't support our CBA basketball team. We didn't support our CSL soccer team. We don't support our CFL football team. We will support our NFL football team.

thoughtsandrobots · #**9110** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:31 PM**

Port Lands is the vision I believe.

esquire · #**9111** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtsandrobots

I will say it here again for the 1,975th time...the CFL means nothing in Toronto. Yes, it's a shame. But it's not football football (NFL). We didn't support our CBA basketball team. We didn't support our CSL soccer team. We don't support our CFL football team. We will support our NFL football team.

The delicious irony, of course, being that had Toronto supported its CFL football team, it probably would have had a NFL team by now.

optimusREIM · #**9112** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Another reason why Toronto won't get a team: Oakland, San Diego and St Louis just lost their teams. There's nothing to put Toronto above those cities.

Surely you must be joking. Toronto is ahead of all those cities in terms of population. I'd be surprised if any of them were ahead of toronto in terms of median income.

I'm no great proponent of the city of toronto but it's certainly way more important on the global stage than any of those you mentioned.

TimB09 · #**9113** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:55 PM**

I don't think Goddell is the guy who will bring Toronto into the NFL any time soon. Like has been said Oakland, San Diego and St. Louis would be first crack...or Mexico has been said too. Stadiums are already there and if they need to build new ones, I can guarantee that fans will get very behind it and pressure the local governments to build new stadiums in those cities.

We shall see but I don't think we see a team in Toronto any time soon.

optimusREIM · #**9114** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimB09

We shall see but I don't think we see a team in Toronto any time soon.

As I said, I don't expect anything to happen on the near to medium term but I would be surprised if it doesn'thappen in my lifetime.

Acajack · #**9115** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtsandrobots

Does Toronto support the Blue Jays? Does Toronto support the Raptors? What previous support was there for those sports? Ask LeBron James or Comissioner Silver what they think of Toronto as a market? Does Toronto support the Maple Leafs? Does Toronto support Toronto FC? Oh yes, very much so.

We don't "think" we are all that. We "know" we are all that because we keep getting told. Toronto is a sports sensation. It's supporters culture is being emulated through the US. Imagine what Toronto would bring for an NFL team? Wow!

I will say it here again for the 1,975th time...the CFL means nothing in Toronto. Yes, it's a shame. But it's not football football (NFL). We didn't support our CBA basketball team. We didn't support our CSL soccer team. We don't support our CFL football team. We will support our NFL football team.

I am sure that you would. But the real question is if the NFL cares that you would.

I mean, we all know Quebec City would support an NHL team, but does the NHL really care? Not at this point it doesn't seem to.

optimusREIM · #**9116** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 7:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am sure that you would. But the real question is if the NFL cares that you would.

I mean, we all know Quebec City would support an NHL team, but does the NHL really care? Not at this point it doesn't seem to.

I have no doubt that the nhl isn't far for Québec! I would love to see a team return!

SaskScraper · #**9117** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

The delicious irony, of course, being that had Toronto supported its CFL football team, it probably would have had a NFL team by now.

Classic example of a city screwing itself.. plus had Toronto sports media played its gullible citizenry in the right direction, The Toronto sports media maybe wouldn't have to be looking at dream of NFL (& potential increased profits) through a plate glass window. It's too late now for Toronto to follow Baltimore's sure thing.

thoughtsandrobots · #**9118** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 7:32 PM**

Does the NFL care if people in St. Louis want another team?

The NFL cares about...money. Let's forget about the traditional economic model of pro sports. The NFL is a behemoth. Massive. Huge. How does it grow even bigger? Does it want to? At this stage (over the next decade) I believe the NFL has to do some non-traditional things or begin it's decline. It's pretty much maxed out the traditional economic model. That doesn't mean it will fall but...Rome did.

Maybe it's technological. Maybe we can put on a headset and be a snapper while we watch the games.

St. Louis (or Oakland, or San Diego, or San Antonio) are the same. Tradition. Decline. Toronto is not the golden egg for the NFL but the NFL will prove to be a golden egg for Toronto. It completes the ascent. Sports mecca. Toronto is becoming the kind of metropolis which will want that. Couple this with the NFL searching for the next thing. It all lines up.

Some suggest the FIFA World Cup 2026 is a link. You know...build the stadium and all that. Some think it's foreign billionaires or...as before, celebrities with minority stakes backed by the media companies who most stand to profit.

thoughtsandrobots · #**9119** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 7:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Classic example of a city screwing itself.. plus had Toronto sports media played its gullible citizenry in the right direction, The Toronto sports media maybe wouldn't have to be looking at dream of NFL (& potential increased profits) through a plate glass window. It's too late now for Toronto to follow Baltimore's sure thing.

The CFL survives based on a dearth of other pro sports in the West and the TSN contract (self interest). I know the Roughriders are a big deal where you are from and I applaud y'all for supporting them. But to us...it's minor league and most people 'round here wouldn't even know Baltimore had a CFL team.

Nothing to do with this. CFL is nothing to do with this.

esquire · #**9120** Posted **Apr 20, 2017, 7:34 PM**

^ Sports mecca... please. If Toronto gets a NFL team, that would put it on the same level as maybe Phoenix or Minneapolis-St. Paul. But both of those cities do a far better job supporting their university teams than Toronto ever has.