Calgary International Airport II

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Surely they've planned this out with the US Customs folks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2K7sV-K74

I checked with people who deal with flight planning issues, the above post is correct.

In order to get pax into us preclearance, the airline must prove that they have been granted landing rights by the arrival airport's USCBP office. In this instance Flair Air dispatch will have to obtain approval from AXA USCBP that the office will be open, this will happen at the flight planning stage (aka day of flight). This approval is presented to YYC USCBP office and pax are processed here at YYC.

For major ports of entry, obtaining USCBP is near automatic, it would be a highly irregular occurrence for USCBP to refuse an arrival at a primary port of entry like LAX, LAS, LGA, etc. Refusal would have to be on the grounds of labour action, sequestration (US govt shut down), etc.

I found out that the AXA USCBP office is a one person show. There is a notice to pilots to call before departure and ensure that the USCP officer is working that day. The alternate arrival location is TUS as the AXA USCBP office is a satellite of TUS, not PHX. The USCBP operation at AXA is for the benefit of the FBO, not the main terminal. If the AXA USCBP officer gets sick, all traffic for that day is diverted to TUS, per USCBP policy.

The USCBP offIces don't talk to one another. So every time Flair Air departs from YYC/YEG an airline representative will have to present approval notification from the AXA USCBP officer before any pax get processed at YYC. No approval, no pax processing, and no approval to enter US airspace.

Way back in early 2000s, Harmony Airways got into trouble with a YVR to Hawaii charter because the arrival USCBP office was not open to give the necessary approval required by YVR USCBP. The solution was to process the flight through the domestic terminal at YvR and then clear customs in Hawaii.

In an second incident AS announced and marketed a YVR-SNA flight ( during the early days of open skies). On the innagural flight the airplane was diverted to LAx because there was no USCBP office at SNA. when AS got their flight diverted, there were no out of place laughs at the other airlines, rather everyone was searching for the rule book to make sure a similar situation didn't happen to them. A simple oversight of a rule no one ever heard about.

[Bigtime]

You completely missed the setup I gave you.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Cage

A condition of pre-clearance facilities is that the flight must land at a US airport with an open USCBP office.

LGA doesn't have USCBP. AC, WS and the American carriers fly to LGA from YUL, YOW and YYZ, and I've never heard of flights diverting to EWR or JFK due to CBP issues.

Clearly that is not a rule that is enforced at all airports.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

LGA doesn't have USCBP. AC, WS and the American carriers fly to LGA from YUL, YOW and YYZ, and I've never heard of flights diverting to EWR or JFK due to CBP issues.

Clearly that is not a rule that is enforced at all airports.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/...ces%20are%20Normally%20Available.doc.pdf

Check out page 10 of the above link. The LGA UsCBP office is a satellite of JFK station. It's a single desk for the purpose of handling precleared flights from Canada. The officer does nothing but sit at the desk and play solitaire all day. It's the Maytag repairman job for USCBP.

If the LGA Stationed officer is not available for any reason, another officer is 40 minutes and 10 miles down the Grand Central Parkway.

[MMMBeer]

Originally Posted by casper

For AC management I am surprised complaints from frequent flyer about the lack of MLL are not on the top of the list.

When I was in the AC priority security check-in area, the check-in agent told me no MLL lounge access, and said she heard AC will probably give access to the contract Aspire lounges (as Cage had predicted).

I get access to the lounges via a credit card, and the E lounge is nice. Well, hard not for any lounge to be better than the old Rocky Mtn lounge.

[Tobuz]

Hot off the presses ... an article from MetroNews about the water bottle situation...

https://t.co/oYFJhZEi5I

Interesting things:

• MetroNews is seemingly the only news outlet that's reported on any of the post-opening controversies ... I'm surprised that none of the bigger media in town haven't touched it (other than joining in on the opening day PR-fest)
• the official name for the mop bucket sinks, as the article quotes a YYC communication person as saying, is: “multi-purpose water bottle filling stations.” That's awesome. And the new watercoolers are there to "supplement" those multi-purpose stations

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by MMMBeer

... and said she heard AC will probably give access to the contract Aspire lounges (as Cage had predicted).

Interesting. If it happens, I wonder how they'd apply their access rules to a third party contract lounge.

It wouldn't be a StarAlliance lounge, so I'm pretty sure that would mean no access for any UA passengers ... even if they're AC members with AC Altitude status. And UA passengers who have either Star Alliance Gold via United or have purchased a UC membership would be left out.

I wonder if access to the Aspire lounge would only be granted to J passengers. Or if Altitude status holders could access it to (provided they're flying AC rather than UA). Or if paid Maple Leaf Lounge membership cardholders could access. Hmmm...

[casper]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Interesting. If it happens, I wonder how they'd apply their access rules to a third party contract lounge.

It wouldn't be a StarAlliance lounge, so I'm pretty sure that would mean no access for any UA passengers ... even if they're AC members with AC Altitude status. And UA passengers who have either Star Alliance Gold via United or have purchased a UC membership would be left out.

I wonder if access to the Aspire lounge would only be granted to J passengers. Or if Altitude status holders could access it to (provided they're flying AC rather than UA). Or if paid Maple Leaf Lounge membership cardholders could access. Hmmm...

Not certain of the mechanics in Calgary. In the past and in other parts of the world where AC serves and the lounge is a non-star lounge, at check-in I have been handed an invitation with instructions. Usually you hand it in at the lounge entrance. At a Canadian airport not certain how it would work.

The Quebec city lounge is one where it is not operated by Air Canada but branded as Maple Leaf + other brands. No invitation is needed.

[Tobuz]

A photo posted by a YYC passenger late last night . . . an arriving passenger in the corridor to CBSA.

Her comment:

Brutal line @FlyYYC immigration with half the machines open and staff standing around instead of helping #pathetic #yyc #newairport

Ouch.

That's bad.

There have been sporadic complaints about the lack of real 'queues' inside the customs areas ... more of a free for all to get to a machine, and then the same to get to a CBP or CBSA agent. It looks like it's not working when there's high passenger volume.

[Bureaudog]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

A photo posted by a YYC passenger late last night . . . an arriving passenger in the corridor to CBSA.

Her comment:





Ouch.

That's bad.

There have been sporadic complaints about the lack of real 'queues' inside the customs areas ... more of a free for all to get to a machine, and then the same to get to a CBP or CBSA agent. It looks like it's not working when there's high passenger volume.

Yep, and the 'officers standing around' have been moved from positions where they could process passengers as normal to positions where they need to wait for a passenger to finish with a machine before they can speak to them and get them out of the hall. If half the machines weren't working the whole scheme should've been shuttered and reverted to normal primary processing. You'll note that the FlyYYC hasn't given a response yet...

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

A photo posted by a YYC passenger late last night . . . an arriving passenger in the corridor to CBSA.

Her comment:





Ouch.

That's bad.

There have been sporadic complaints about the lack of real 'queues' inside the customs areas ... more of a free for all to get to a machine, and then the same to get to a CBP or CBSA agent. It looks like it's not working when there's high passenger volume.

That picture reminds of the customs line up in Geneva from the infield terminals.

[excel]

Originally Posted by Acey

A bigger change is required to fix this compared to moving a water fountain into the int'l food court. Give them a couple days to craft the response.

Water cooler, not fountain. If you want to take a quick drink of water and don't have a bottle, you can't.

[lubicon]

I know zilch about the automatic machines so maybe there is a goo answer to this, but I would ask why are not all of them working all of the time? Other than down time for maintenance a machine is capable of working 24/7 is it not? Why would only half of them be working?

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by lubicon

I know zilch about the automatic machines so maybe there is a goo answer to this, but I would ask why are not all of them working all of the time? Other than down time for maintenance a machine is capable of working 24/7 is it not? Why would only half of them be working?

The same person posted a couple of clarifying comments earlier today.

It sounds like all of the machines were working -- but the flow of passengers to them wasn't. Passengers were confused. Sounds like no clear lines, and no clear direction on what to do. As a result, many of the machines just stayed open and functioning -- but unused.

The "staff" she expressed frustration with weren't CBSA, but rather the airport's new customer service people. They apparently weren't helping people, and weren't ushering people to the open machines. Sounds like they were standing and smiling, but not doing anything to speed up processing by getting people to available machines.

[CalgaryCheese]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

A photo posted by a YYC passenger late last night . . . an arriving passenger in the corridor to CBSA.

Her comment:





Ouch.

That's bad.

There have been sporadic complaints about the lack of real 'queues' inside the customs areas ... more of a free for all to get to a machine, and then the same to get to a CBP or CBSA agent. It looks like it's not working when there's high passenger volume.

Does anyone have pictures of the customs hall exactly (or the layout of it)? Because in a terminal designed for decades down the road, this shouldn't be happening three weeks after opening day.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

The "staff" she expressed frustration with weren't CBSA, but rather the airport's new customer service people. They apparently weren't helping people, and weren't ushering people to the open machines. Sounds like they were standing and smiling, but not doing anything to speed up processing by getting people to available machines.

One problem with the new ABP machines at CBSA, the customer service people cannot be at the computer terminal area and/or assist passengers with the computer functions. If you notice when an airport or airline representative assists international inbound customers, the employee stands 5 meters back from the pax anytime they are around customs officials (this observation transcends national borders). The pax must make their own declaration and cannot get assistance from airline/airport person. For confidentiality reasons, the employee must be well back and out of ear shot.

When I was going through the trials, the customer care ambassadors were milling about the area. Later, the customer care managers were getting an earful from customs as they cannot be at or near the computer terminals.

Finally a major part of the problem with the ABP machines is the inherent customer confusion over being required to go to a computer terminal instead of immediately seeing a CBSA officer. The pax are standing waiting for an officer to call them over when infact they have to see the computer terminal first. This angers a lot of pax and leads to further lineups as the pax attempt to talk/argue their way through not using the ABP machines.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

It sounds like all of the machines were working -- but the flow of passengers to them wasn't. Passengers were confused. Sounds like no clear lines, and no clear direction on what to do. As a result, many of the machines just stayed open and functioning -- but unused.

Seems to be a common problem at airports -- e.g., check-in machines for Air Canada/Westjet/others. Just a jumble of machines, and no obvious way to funnel people to available machines efficiently. Usually works fine in smaller crowds, but in larger crowds, turns into a bizarre collective "I don't know what to do now" scenario.

Really shouldn't be that hard to fix though. Big sign: "Proceed to next available machine. After machine, proceed to agent". For bonus points, put a lighted sign on top of every machine that indicates its availability...

Similar to call to gate, here's a small, but fundamental change in behaviour that needs to be communicated. I'm curious whether there's any serious attempt in the customs hall to do so. This shouldn't be so hard!!!

[Suburgatory]

In Toronto they have staff working the custom terminal area directing people to the next open machine to keep the line moving. It's very helpful as they have two aisles of machines and you can't see through the crowd for when a machine at the far end comes open.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by CalgaryCheese

Because in a terminal designed for decades down the road, this shouldn't be happening three weeks after opening day.

Bingo. Exactly right.

To have a line like this in the latest and greatest in airport design - during a soft travel season, in a weak economy - wow. It just should not happen.

One would rightfully expect some hiccups in the first few weeks of operation.

But so many of the issues since Oct 31:
- CATSA queuing and confusion, and the yanking of Nexus benefits,
- totally unclear queuing and passenger flow for CBP and CBSA,
- Call-To-Gate simply not working / not being understood / not being liked by those who do understand,
- the bloody water fountain and bottle fill stations issue,
- the connections centre being overwhelmed, with connecting passengers stuck waiting and having awful experiences,
- YYC Link being so overwhelmed at morning peak that it's causing anger and frustration for passengers and airlines (primarily WestJet),
- among others...

... are not "little hiccups". None of them. They all seem like fundamental design flaws in either the building and/or the processes.

You really have to wonder about the design team on this terminal. They either had a total misunderstanding of how humans would behave in the space and how the "user experience" would play out in what they designed ... or they just didn't care.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

You really have to wonder about the design team on this terminal. They either had a total misunderstanding of how humans would behave in the space and how the "user experience" would play out in what they designed ... or they just didn't care.

The Connections Centre, YYC Link and in fact the entire widened Post-Security corridor linking the International Terminal to the Domestic was not part of the original design. It was added very late (2014) well after construction had already started on the terminal itself. The original plan was to have all passengers exit customs, re-check their bags and then proceed to domestic gates.

Discussions with CBSA were still ongoing in late 2013 (remember the terminal broke ground in 2010). Eventually the necessary agreements were reached which resulted in YYC getting approval to have ITD and other connections happen without pax picking up their bags or even having to enter the customs bag hall area.

This is part of the reason the design of the tri-sector gates, connections centre, customs hall and YYC Link seem like afterthoughts, because they were. The decision was made in early 2014 to still go ahead with adding/modifying these areas because it still (theoretically) streamlined the processing of connecting passengers enough to warrant the added costs, reconfiguration and schedule impact (remember the terminal was supposed to open October 2015 originally).

The building would have been drastically different had all this been in place and designed into the original plans for the terminal.

About those water fountains though..