Winnipeg Construction VIII

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

I think in this case there is an owner wanting to sell.

I do agree that if this route is taken, it will be yet another surface lot along that stretch.

$35 Million dollar hotel complex. Puleeze. As if anyone would take that seriously. Maybe it will have a waterpark?

If City Hall seriously wants to OK the demolition then it should at least force the developer to give us a shiny new rendering for the unbuilt Winnipeg files. Although I'm guessing $35 million won't get you too much these days, maybe a ten storey Marriott Courtyard?

What happened to the Pollard plan?

[drew]

Originally Posted by esquire

What happened to the Pollard plan?

Maybe this is a competing bid.

Or the owners are trying to get Pollard to pony up more money.

Adaptive reuse of these buildings has to be seen by all players as the best possible outcome here. You just need an owner who is not looking to maximize profits, and will do this because "it's the right thing to do". People like this are rare, but they do exist - as this appears to be Pollard's plan.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Bovell007

New helipad coming to HSC do you think it will be worth the price

Hope the HSC helipad sees more use than the one Seven Oaks Hospital had.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by esquire

If City Hall seriously wants to OK the demolition then it should at least force the developer to give us a shiny new rendering for the unbuilt Winnipeg files. Although I'm guessing $35 million won't get you too much these days, maybe a ten storey Marriott Courtyard?

What happened to the Pollard plan?

I think a 10 storey Marriott would be great.

The site is bought at fair market value and financed without subsidy from the city.

CV is not involved, imagine that!

We had many years to designate these buildings but their time has come and gone. Say what you want but they are not that "historic" or significant just old and derelict. They are not in the middle of the Exchange.

My fear is if the buildings are listed at the 11th hour the hotel proposal vanishes.

Pollard gets cold feet when the costs come in and walks.

We are left with nothing...

Put a restrictive covenant on title prohibiting a parking lot.

Take a $1,000,000 bond or LC prior to demolishing Fortune and only released upon completion of the agreed to development application. That is enough to stop bate and switch and end up with another parking lot.

I'm all for heritage preservation but where was the uproar over Luke's machinery or the Carlton inn? Could this really have something to do with slowing down anyone else from building a hotel for the convention centre crowd other than Longboat in the SHED and obtaining 20 years tax free status amounting to millions of dollars? Hmmm

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hope the HSC helipad sees more use than the one Seven Oaks Hospital had.

just saw the STARS team in full gear with a few prominent HSC members, they may have just did a test land on the new pad.

[pegcityfan]

If Pollard get the building, no chance they walk away. Trust me on this one. This building isn't about money for them whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Labroco

I think a 10 storey Marriott would be great.

The site is bought at fair market value and financed without subsidy from the city.

CV is not involved, imagine that!

We had many years to designate these buildings but their time has come and gone. Say what you want but they are not that "historic" or significant just old and derelict. They are not in the middle of the Exchange.

My fear is if the buildings are listed at the 11th hour the hotel proposal vanishes.

Pollard gets cold feet when the costs come in and walks.

We are left with nothing...

Put a restrictive covenant on title prohibiting a parking lot.

Take a $1,000,000 bond or LC prior to demolishing Fortune and only released upon completion of the agreed to development application. That is enough to stop bate and switch and end up with another parking lot.

I'm all for heritage preservation but where was the uproar over Luke's machinery or the Carlton inn? Could this really have something to do with slowing down anyone else from building a hotel for the convention centre crowd other than Longboat in the SHED and obtaining 20 years tax free status amounting to millions of dollars? Hmmm

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by rkspec

just saw the STARS team in full gear with a few prominent HSC members, they may have just did a test land on the new pad.

It was probably for the announcement. Heli-pad to be ready for use by spring.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hope the HSC helipad sees more use than the one Seven Oaks Hospital had.

You know, I was wondering about that... I had a fuzzy memory about a SOGH helipad but I couldn't quite remember if there actually was one there or not. I checked Google Maps but I couldn't find any sign of one there, so I didn't mention it.

What was the deal with that helipad? Who was it built for?

Originally Posted by Labroco

I think a 10 storey Marriott would be great.

The site is bought at fair market value and financed without subsidy from the city.

CV is not involved, imagine that!

We had many years to designate these buildings but their time has come and gone. Say what you want but they are not that "historic" or significant just old and derelict. They are not in the middle of the Exchange.

My fear is if the buildings are listed at the 11th hour the hotel proposal vanishes.

Pollard gets cold feet when the costs come in and walks.

We are left with nothing...

Put a restrictive covenant on title prohibiting a parking lot.

Take a $1,000,000 bond or LC prior to demolishing Fortune and only released upon completion of the agreed to development application. That is enough to stop bate and switch and end up with another parking lot.

I'm all for heritage preservation but where was the uproar over Luke's machinery or the Carlton inn? Could this really have something to do with slowing down anyone else from building a hotel for the convention centre crowd other than Longboat in the SHED and obtaining 20 years tax free status amounting to millions of dollars? Hmmm

A bond and restrictive covenant sound good to me.

I was not thrilled about the Luke's Machinery demo and I don't think anyone else was either. However, given that it didn't have heritage status there were fewer protections in place.

I hope the owner takes the Pollard offer. There are plenty of places to build a new hotel that don't involve demolishing a heritage building.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by drew

Maybe this is a competing bid.

From what I hear (and it was very little) but it is a separate bid.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Labroco

I think a 10 storey Marriott would be great.

The site is bought at fair market value and financed without subsidy from the city.

CV is not involved, imagine that!

We had many years to designate these buildings but their time has come and gone. Say what you want but they are not that "historic" or significant just old and derelict. They are not in the middle of the Exchange.

My fear is if the buildings are listed at the 11th hour the hotel proposal vanishes.

Pollard gets cold feet when the costs come in and walks.

We are left with nothing...

Put a restrictive covenant on title prohibiting a parking lot.

Take a $1,000,000 bond or LC prior to demolishing Fortune and only released upon completion of the agreed to development application. That is enough to stop bate and switch and end up with another parking lot.

If someone wants to redevelop these buildings, and is willing to do so without requiring much in the way of profit - that needs to be the primary route taken until that option is exhausted.

Keeping those buildings IMO is more important than a new hotel on the site.

Also, the $1,000,000 bond or LC sounds great, but there is no way I would expect or trust the City to suddenly grow a pair to actually go through with that.

I think we keep the buildings we can, and start to really pressure the owner of existing "developable" empty lots to loosen their grip.

Delinquent owners are a real problem in this City. This is where we need to focus public and civic pressure.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by drew

Also, the $1,000,000 bong?

Whoa dude, that's pricey!

[drew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Whoa dude, that's pricey!

Wow - you were quick! I noticed that and changed it right after I hit "post"!

[bomberjet]

^Ha! Yeah I must've got it at the right moment!

[cheswick]

Main Street Buildings Deemed Historic By City Hall
Keith McCullough

Three old buildings on south Main Street have been designated as historic by city hall.

It’s a move that likely saves them from the wrecking ball and likely kills a proposal to build a new hotel on the site.

http://www.cjob.com/2016/01/12/new-hotel-coming-to-main-street/

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hope the HSC helipad sees more use than the one Seven Oaks Hospital had.

as for use, they anticipate 1-2 landings per day. great....my window faces the pad lol

[Biff]

From the Sun http://www.winnipegsun.com/2016/01/12/fight-for-fortune-block


Fight for Fortune Block - After years of disinterest, two companies bidding for Times Change(d) building

By Joyanne Pursaga, Winnipeg Sun


Two competing plans for some of Winnipeg's oldest buildings were pitched at City Hall Tuesday, as a council committee prepares to weigh in on a proposed heritage designation for them.

The property and development committee learned of a new proposal to demolish and replace the Fortune Block, MacDonald Block and Winnipeg Hotel buildings on south Main Street and replace them with a $35-million development centred around a hotel.

Harry Christakis of #16 Hospitality, said a "major international brand" is interested in the site for an extended stay, 150-room, eight- to 10-floor hotel with a ground floor restaurant, court yards and seating.

"We feel it will succeed in this location," said Christakis.

Supporters of that project estimate it would cost more than $17 million to renovate the buildings instead, making that effort not financially feasible. And they suggest they have plans to relocate Time(s) Changed in a building of "similar character" but did not elaborate on exactly where that might be.

The committee will consider designating the buildings on the city's historical resources list, however, a move which would prevent demolition.

The proposal follows recent news that John Pollard of Pollard Banknote offered an alternate business plan to renovate the Fortune Block and MacDonald Block, while preserving a heritage status, if one is given.

Pollard's plan, however, does not include the Winnipeg Hotel, though he has extended offers to purchase the other two properties.

"These are incredibly historic buildings and incredibly historic features involved in them," said Pollard.

Pollard's plan includes preserving the Time(s) Changed club in the Fortune Block and rehabilitating that building's upper floors as office space. The MacDonald Block plans are more open-ended but could include residential space, he added.

"We hope to preserve them as much as possible," he said.

"I'm in the fortunate position ... We're prepared to do this on the basis that we don't really make a great return," said Pollard, agreeing that the area likely wouldn't generate huge profits.

Cindy Tugwell, executive director of Heritage Winnipeg, urged city councillors not to base their decision about the buildings' historic merit on economics alone.

"Is heritage preservation slow? Yes. Do you always get your money immediately in the return? No. It's about doing the right thing," said Tugwell.

The city will vote on the matter later Tuesday.

[esquire]

^ 100% on the side of Pollard.

Christakis' Courtyard Hotel or Hilton Garden Inn can be built in 100 different spots downtown. Pollard's plan can only go in that one specific location.

[Biff]

It annoys me that someone can do a preliminary business plan for a $35 million project that requires existing buildings to be torn down when there is a large empty lot at the NW corner of Broadway and Main, one at the SE corner of York and Main, 3 directly across the street on the south side of Main and a foundation Pad site on the 360 Main property at the corner of Graham and Main. All of which would look great having a 10 storey hotel on them.

I know owners of surface lots don't like to sell because it is easy money but really.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Biff

Estimate it would cost more than $17 million to renovate the buildings instead, making that effort not financially feasible. And they suggest they have plans to relocate Time(s) Changed in a building of "similar character" but did not elaborate on exactly where that might be.

$17 million to renovate these buildings? That's just an absurd number. I would question their business acumen if this is the information they are getting.

They could take them apart brick by brick, clean the bricks and put the buildings back together for less than that.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Biff

It annoys me that someone can do a preliminary business plan for a $35 million project that requires existing buildings to be torn down when there is a large empty lot at the NW corner of Broadway and Main, one at the SE corner of York and Main, 3 directly across the street on the south side of Main and a foundation Pad site on the 360 Main property at the corner of Graham and Main. All of which would look great having a 10 storey hotel on them.

I know owners of surface lots don't like to sell because it is easy money but really.

This is why attention and pressure needs to head the way of disinterested owners of underused properties.

There should be a grace period for these people to sell, and then they need to be hit with increasing property taxes up to the point where they match the number that would be there if the lot was developed.