Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Stenar

That sculpture is called "Man chased by genies." I don't know why the genies took the form of babies.

Vigelands Park in Frogner Park in Norway is amazing. It's one of my favorite places in Oslo. There are dozens of naked statues all created by Gustav Vigeland including the monolith. SLC definitely needs more sculptures, not necessarily of naked people or Mormon stuff on the opposite spectrum.

I love that park. It is fascinating. I have a pic floating around somewhere with me and that tantrum baby.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Curledor

This is my design for Salt Lake City new city flag.
SLC-FLAG-1450119855494

Love it!

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Makid

To put this in perspective:

The North option with between 1,200 and 1,600 rooms would range between 34 and 45 stories tall and would be between 500' and 600', possibly up to 650'.

The South option at 50 Stories would range between 550' and 650' with a possibility to go over 700'.

The only one we don't know about is the Austin Developers but it is probably between 400' and 450' (my estimates only).

Any of these 3 options would be a dramatic change for the skyline as well as the city. This also means that most likely the CCH and APS will be under construction at the same time. It also means that there is a good chance of 2,000+ hotel rooms coming online at nearly the same time (within 2 hotels).

These proposals are really game changers for the city. It will be interesting to see who wins the bid and if the others plan on building something as well.

As a note, it is possible that we could get 2 hotels on the convention center property. One on each end. The CCH would be required to add additional meeting space of up to 160,000 (based on the 1,600 rooms) but the other could just provide additional parking or other amenities and still be able to build on the other spot.

With that said, I don't think we will end up with 2 hotels on the properties, but it is something to think about as it is a possibility.

Thanks for breaking this down Makid. I highly doubt that Priskos would build anything at all if the CCH is built not on his site. Though, that would be great if he built some hotel there of any size just to fill in that gap. I'm glad he has some temporary landscaping going in.

[Future Mayor]

I wonder if the third developer is considering buying the former APS site for it's proposal. The article stated that two are considering the county land and those are the two locally based developers.

Even if we don't get to see all the proposals, which I doubt we will, as we never saw the Omni proposal. I would guess that the county is going to pick one of the three. They really need to move on this.

1,400 - 1,600 on the north site or 50+ stories on the south spot, either of those could be a new tallest, and while we don't know anything about the third, it will for sure make a dramatic impact on the skyline.

Ultimately I'm glad that there were three proposals submitted. It give the county some options and some bargaining power with design.

[millhouse]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

I wonder if the third developer is considering buying the former APS site for it's proposal. The article stated that two are considering the county land and those are the two locally based developers.

Even if we don't get to see all the proposals, which I doubt we will, as we never saw the Omni proposal. I would guess that the county is going to pick one of the three. They really need to move on this.

1,400 - 1,600 on the north site or 50+ stories on the south spot, either of those could be a new tallest, and while we don't know anything about the third, it will for sure make a dramatic impact on the skyline.

Ultimately I'm glad that there were three proposals submitted. It give the county some options and some bargaining power with design.

The CEO from JLJL (one of the developers) stated that it was their intention to build the tallest building in SLC if selected.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by millhouse

The CEO from JLJL (one of the developers) stated that it was their intention to build the tallest building in SLC if selected.

Yeah, that's why I put the 50+ stories, as JLJL mentioned, in my comment, as well as speculation that 1,600 rooms on the north site could be as well.

[Orlando]

550 footer on south site.



500 footer on north site.




I think they're both too tall from an urban form point of view. I would be happy with something in the 400 foot range, and build other hotels or condo buildings to fill in the gaps in the city. I mean, let's fill in those empty parking lots all around that area.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

South site hands down. It would also be another catalisyst for the streetcar.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Orlando

550 footer on south site.



500 footer on north site.




I think they're both too tall from an urban form point of view. I would be happy with something in the 400 foot range, and build other hotels or condo buildings to fill in the gaps in the city. I mean, let's fill in those empty parking lots all around that area.

That's not as bad as I expected. But if we end up with a 600+ footer our skyline will look weird and imbalanced for decades to come. We'll look like OKC now and Minneapolis 25 or so years ago.

[Future Mayor]

I agree, in terms of placement in the skyline I like the south site better. I also think it puts visitors more into the middle of downtown rather than just at the north/City Creek end of downtown. I think it will go a long way into further activating 200 S to the West. Hundreds more people wanting to explore the city from that intersection will be a huge, positive, impact.

Yes something over 500' will look a bit out of place in our skyline, but I don't think it will be to long before we get another tower in that range, again my guess is a new Zions Tower.

I don't think going 500'+ with 1,000-1,600 rooms is going to hinder another hotel in the 600-800 room range. As has been the argument the entire time, the CCH is going to bring larger and more conventions to town, which are going to need more rooms which will create a demand for a second large hotel in the Convention District. The spots available, based on current zoning that could accomodate the height of another hotel are APS, the other Salt Palace lot (which I'm sure they don't want to give up both, or on either side of South Temple to 300 W. The recent changes to the D-4 won't allow another hotel of significant height south west of the Salt Palace, particularly RWP. I still feel the RWP, half block, and the northern parcels of the block to the south should get a zone change to allow for additional heights.

On that thought, I think the zones need to be looked at again. The Downtown Zones are all sorts of odd, IMO:
D-1 (Central Business District) Corner buildings 100' minimum 375' max, taller with conditional use approval. Mid-block 100' max but taller with conditional use approval.
D-2 (Downtown Support District) 65' max, up to 120' with conditional use
D-3 (Downtown Warehouse/Residential District) Not to exceed 75' but up to 90' with conditional use approval.
D-4 (Downtown Secondary Central Business District) 75', 120' max with conditional use approval, or unlimited height on the W. Temple - 200 W Salt Palace Block.

It's the D-4 that I think needs the most tweaking. It's stated that the city wants a gradual/pyramid effect with height, but allowing 375' on corners in the D-1 and then immediately to 120' on the adjacent D-4 doesn't really result in the pyramid effect.

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by airhero

That's not as bad as I expected. But if we end up with a 600+ footer our skyline will look weird and imbalanced for decades to come. We'll look like OKC now and Minneapolis 25 or so years ago.

There is a huge difference between a 600 footer and an 844 footer (like in OKC)

A 600 footer would look great in SLC.

[Hatman]

I just realized that if a hotel on the north site keeps the same angle as the art museum, all the rooms on that diagonal side will have some pretty sweet views of Temple Square. I think that is a unique enough feature to favor the north site over the south. Throw in some residential units like are described in the proposal, and that business venture is a guaranteed success.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by wrendog

There is a huge difference between a 600 footer and an 844 footer (like in OKC)

A 600 footer would look great in SLC.

Oklahoma City is the worst-case scenario.

In my opinion even the 500 looks imbalanced because of the decentralized location of the building.

[Hatman]

Google Maps shows what the view could be. The Promontory is sort of in the way, but not enough to ruin it. (I took the screenshot from further back in order to get more of a 'panorama' effect. Imagine everything closer to the 'camera.')

[Hatman]

Looking out over City Creek Center and up to the U would also be pretty cool. (This view does not include Main 111)

[Gastroc]

I don't get why some of you are against a 500-600 foot building for our skyline.. I swear the forum as a whole has been itching for a new tallest. IMO a taller building will push for other buildings to be built like the Zions parking lot and Carls jr. site. If a new tallest is built I am sure the county will make sure it will look good but that's not the most important thing. More important is generating $ through more hotel rooms, more conventions, more people coming to SLC.

[ctobsl]

I would only like it on the North side just to ruin the view for the residents in the CCC condo tower, other than that, the South side is perfect as far as I am concerned. By the way, the 550' tower on the South side is a great height for that area. I agree with Gastroc, it is not to tall and in my opinion all other new towers will be designed to fit in and match the height.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Gastroc

I don't get why some of you are against a 500-600 foot building for our skyline.. I swear the forum as a whole has been itching for a new tallest. IMO a taller building will push for other buildings to be built like the Zions parking lot and Carls jr. site. If a new tallest is built I am sure the county will make sure it will look good but that's not the most important thing. More important is generating $ through more hotel rooms, more conventions, more people coming to SLC.

Just to be clear, I don't think anybody is against the CCH happening. It will be a boon to Salt Lake City. The concern is about the scale and the aesthetics. I'm sure the county will do what they can to ensure a great design, but I personally have not seen one CCH anywhere that isn't wide and imposing. Denver's CCH? I like it, but it's a wall. Cleveland's? I like it also, but it's a wall. Phoenix's? Wall. Austin's? Wall. I'm sure there is a CCH somewhere that's not a wall, but most are. What I'm concerned about is that no matter what happens, even if it's a tasteful design, it's going to be a wall. It's not going to be a slender, nicely proportioned building no matter how tall it is. On top of that, the location isn't central, which will cause the building to stick out even more. I would much rather see a 1100-room 400-foot wall than a 1600 room 650 foot wall.

Also, I doubt the height of the CCH will have any effect on what gets built on the Zion's or Carl's Jr. sites.

[Makid]

The reason that the skyline looks off balance is also because there isn't much to the west yet. Anything on West Temple of height looks off. 99 West does currently from a distance but once additional towers are built be it the North or South lot for the Convention Center, APS and The VCC, any of these will help to balance it out.

The height isn't much of an issue because of the sloping nature of the landscape. A 500' tower will have more impact on the north lot then the same on the south. This is because the south lot is lower.

This is the same reason that the towers on Main don't look as tall as they really are from a distance when compared to the COB.

I think that we are already seeing a shift but the heights will be increasing at this point and I would be surprised to see a much built in SLC that is under 300' going forward (midblock sites excluded).

I do think that the CCH will push close to if not just over 550'. It will be noticeable in the skyline but the design will be one that it should be. This will only push APS to go taller than they are thinking and their 485' might be for their hotel if the CCH is built elsewhere. They could add a sky lounge and restaurant to the top as a draw.

With these 2 buildings increasing in height and architectural design, I think Zions parking lot will happen before 2020 and it will be a new tallest (600'+). This will help to balance the skyline further.

I think we are only really at the beginning of the boom cycle now and by 2025 will have 3 buildings between 550' and 650' in a combination of completed or under construction. I also think that at least 1 of the buildings will be entirely residential (not counting ground level retail).

For SLC, we are just beginning to see what will happen and I think we will see much more movement before the end of 2016 with both proposals and groundbreakings for projects.

The skyline won't always be balanced but it will fill in over time. I don't think we will have a striking contrast though like in OKC. This is because once the CCH is built over 500' (probably closer to 550'), the urban myth will finally be broken and we will see towers visibly taller than the COB in the skyline.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by wrendog

There is a huge difference between a 600 footer and an 844 footer (like in OKC)

A 600 footer would look great in SLC.

This

Also; What kind of impact would a south tower have on the cc solar array? A south tower would cast a shadow over them until ~ noon right? Would the committee prefer the northern lot for that reason?